Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

^

Piccolo fights weakened frost, and said to have no chance, but he puts up a great effort, thanks to skill, tournament rules, and frost not taking this 100% seriously.
However, piccolo seems like powered up - to say around fat buu level - because he wasn't strong enough to get a comment.

This illustrates the problem perfectly. I generously assume he gets to SPC level in BoG/RoF. To get to Buuhan level he would need to get 4x stronger than that which you say base Goku is already at.
If the SSJ multiplier still applies the. Goku got to x50 Buuhan levels to fight Frost.
Even if we go with a weaken Frost at half or 50% of Goku's power Piccolo at Buuhan levels would need to get 25x or 2500% stronger just to get to that level. So that means between the RoF story and the tournament and with a generous Super Perfect Cell starting base and very generous Frost is half SSJ Goku power weakened, Piccolo would mathematically literally need to get 10,000% stronger in a few months just to get to that level.

Yea its find that technique is important but when you have flat out power in both the Frost and Cabba fight putting up impenetrable shots or one shot KOs on fighters which much closer power levels to each other then your power levels/technique/narrative are inconsistent.

[TheMikado]

So, we reach the conclusion that all the fighters in U6 besides Hit are fodders compared to Boo Arc power levels?

Goku and Vegeta were supressed as shit while fighting most of them, right? Two Bases is a thing and Piccolo is not Boo-tenks level?

Lol you're about to start a war all over again. That basically the 4 things that are in contention right now. Which is why this thread is so hard to follow.

[Khin]

Its best to give up trying to give power levels for Super.You can say Base Goku and co. are Perfect Cell level but there are things that contradicts it,you can say Base Goku and co. are Vegetto level,but there are also things that contradicts it.The power scaling is too messy at this point,probably even worse than GT.

But i don't buy the two bases theory.The reason why Goku and Vegeta didn't go all out from the start was because the Blue form drains energy fast,and also because of Hit.Goku or Vegeta had no reason not use the so called "Saiyan Beyond God" from the start because it doesn't drain as much energy as Blue and also because they still have the Blue form up there sleeve.Not to mention,Goku shows no sign of switching his "Saiyan Beyond God' mode,no aura whatsoever and no one even commented about it.Base Goku keeping up with Hit is PIS imo.That's just probably TOEI doing there own thing again and with the Base Goku wank.

[Saiyan007]

Where are you getting SSJB drains energy fast?

It's certainly not like Golden Freeza's stamina or Ssj3 Goku's stamina either.It's just like the first time Saiyans transformed into a SSJ and didn't master it.

It's not "fast" because if that was the case Goku should have said something back when he was using it against Golden Freeza.

[Khin]

Where are you getting SSJB drains energy fast?

Goku said he don't want to startsas Blue right off the bat against Hit because it will drain his energy.SSjBlue doesn't need to be SSj3 strain tier.You could say Golden Freeza drains as much energy as Super Saiyan 3 while SSj Blue drains as much energy as Super Saiyan 2.

And Goku/Vegeta trained in the RoSaT for 3 years.They have no reason not to master the Blue form there.So its possibly the blue form is very hard or impossible to master.

[TheMikado]

Its best to give up trying to give power levels for Super.You can say Base Goku and co. are Perfect Cell level but there are things that contradicts it,you can say Base Goku and co. are Vegetto level,but there are also things that contradicts it.The power scaling is too messy at this point,probably even worse than GT.

But i don't buy the two bases theory.The reason why Goku and Vegeta didn't go all out from the start was because the Blue form drains energy fast,and also because of Hit.Goku or Vegeta had no reason not use the so called "Saiyan Beyond God" from the start because it doesn't drain as much energy as Blue and also because they still have the Blue form up there sleeve.Not to mention,Goku shows no sign of switching his "Saiyan Beyond God' mode,no aura whatsoever and no one even commented about it.Base Goku keeping up with Hit is PIS imo.That's just probably TOEI doing there own thing again and with the Base Goku wank.

Agreed, I'm going go ahead and stick with what I said before and hope the latest manga issue sheds some light on what's happening and probably give up for now.

[Khin]

I'm getting the feeling that Base Goku fighting Hit is just TOEI thing.So it's possible it won't be in the manga.But considering how slow the manga is,we won't get answers for a few months.

[buutenks]

I see it like this:

base saiyans= below vegetto
ssj= vegetto level
ssj blue= beerus/champa level

[Saiyan007]

I see it like this:

base saiyans= below vegetto
ssj= vegetto level
ssj blue= beerus/champa level

Base Goku survived an attack from beerus and destroyed his sphere of Destruction

Base Goku is God tier

[buutenks]

I see it like this:

base saiyans= below vegetto
ssj= vegetto level
ssj blue= beerus/champa level

Base Goku survived an attack from beerus and destroyed his sphere of Destruction

Base Goku is God tier

And after that whis said that base goku is far far far below the level of beerus.tree and castle comparison.

Considering ssj blue goku isnt close to beerus in power, if base goku is as strong as ssg goku, then that means the gap between all u6 fighters and including hit so so small its laughable lol.

Basically you need to fit all of them between 6 and 7.

Gaps is to low for my liking, so i choose to go with second option.

Plus it is also far fetched that vados could find so many god tiers, plus no one commented on piccolo becoming as powerful as final form freeza or base goku.

[Chiki]

First of all, I'm honestly really surprised that some people found our debates in this thread to be sarcastic or offensive. This is easily the most strict forum I've ever seen by a mile, most forums would have no issues with this discussion, and I am surprised there were issues to begin with. However, I will try to keep any sarcasm (I didn't even realize I was being sarcastic tbh) to a minimum, and I apologize if I've somehow offended anyone.

Base Goku was confirmed by Toriyama to be able to access his SSG power at any time:

Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God.

Any theory which says that Goku is SSJ3 level or around that level at Base is false. Base Goku is around or slightly below SSG level, confirmed by Toriyama.

Further, given that Buu hasn't had a power increase, and Buu is stronger than all U6 fighters except Hit, the two bases theory must be true.

[TheMikado]

^ I think the issue is that there are at least 4 different debates raging at any one time and so it looks like a total free for all by comparison of how it typically is. I don't Think that's the fault of anyone here, just the fact that so much is debatable right now.

That being said its probably best to keep our passions in check until any one of these theory can be proven one way or another.

[buutenks]

First of all, I'm honestly really surprised that some people found our debates in this thread to be sarcastic or offensive. This is easily the most strict forum I've ever seen by a mile, most forums would have no issues with this discussion, and I am surprised there were issues to begin with. However, I will try to keep any sarcasm (I didn't even realize I was being sarcastic tbh) to a minimum, and I apologize if I've somehow offended anyone.

Base Goku was confirmed by Toriyama to be able to access his SSG power at any time:

Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God.

Any theory which says that Goku is SSJ3 level or around that level at Base is false. Base Goku is around or slightly below SSG level, confirmed by Toriyama.

Further, given that Buu hasn't had a power increase, and Buu is stronger than all U6 fighters except Hit, the two bases theory must be true.

yes but toriyama was talking about the movie, not DB super.

You cant combine db super with the movie.

Toriyama says in an interview that goku absorbed the power of ssg in the movie.

And in Super, whis says base saiyans are far below the level of the gods. Are you simply going to ignore that line?

Also, what does buu have anything to do with it. Goku and vegeta had no idea how strong the fighters would be. They picked buu since hes the most powerful among gohan and piccolo. Who else could they have picked? Roshi?krillin?android 18? Obviously buu is the best bet.

Edit;Since whi's line is the latest it most likely retcons toriyama's line.

That or all u6 fighters r god tier.

2 base theory was never mentioned or even hinted in the show.

When goku fought in base, krillin mentions how OP goku has gotten, much more powerful than when he fought beerus.

[RandomGuy96]

I see it like this:

base saiyans= below vegetto
ssj= vegetto level
ssj blue= beerus/champa level

Base Goku survived an attack from beerus and destroyed his sphere of Destruction

Base Goku is God tier

Base Cabba being equal to base Vegeta, and his first-time Super Saiyan use bringing him to the same level as SS Vegeta, goes against that claim. Base Goku is substantially less than 2% of SSG Goku. Many other scenes imply this too, like Whis comparing base Goku to a tree while Beerus is a giant temple. It seems clear that base Goku being god-tier was only temporary.

[buutenks]

Goku in DB super not bog movie, requires to go ssj blue to tap into the god power. Without it his base is super strong due to whis' training and partially to the ssg transformation.

[Bullza]

So, we reach the conclusion that all the fighters in U6 besides Hit are fodders compared to Boo Arc power levels?

Goku and Vegeta were supressed as shit while fighting most of them, right? Two Bases is a thing and Piccolo is not Boo-tenks level?

No no, there's one base Goku and Vegeta who is SSJ3 tier+ and not close to God tier. As a result Hit is the only U6 fighter who is God tier and the others aren't close.

Though they should still be comparable to Buu arc level. Magetta and SSJ Cabba are probably at the high end of the Buu arc level.

[Chiki]

First of all, I'm honestly really surprised that some people found our debates in this thread to be sarcastic or offensive. This is easily the most strict forum I've ever seen by a mile, most forums would have no issues with this discussion, and I am surprised there were issues to begin with. However, I will try to keep any sarcasm (I didn't even realize I was being sarcastic tbh) to a minimum, and I apologize if I've somehow offended anyone.

Base Goku was confirmed by Toriyama to be able to access his SSG power at any time:

Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God.

Any theory which says that Goku is SSJ3 level or around that level at Base is false. Base Goku is around or slightly below SSG level, confirmed by Toriyama.

Further, given that Buu hasn't had a power increase, and Buu is stronger than all U6 fighters except Hit, the two bases theory must be true.

yes but toriyama was talking about the movie, not DB super.

You cant combine db super with the movie.

Toriyama says in an interview that goku absorbed the power of ssg in the movie.

And in Super, whis says base saiyans are far below the level of the gods. Are you simply going to ignore that line?

Also, what does buu have anything to do with it. Goku and vegeta had no idea how strong the fighters would be. They picked buu since hes the most powerful among gohan and piccolo. Who else could they have picked? Roshi?krillin?android 18? Obviously buu is the best bet.

Edit;Since whi's line is the latest it most likely retcons toriyama's line.

That or all u6 fighters r god tier.

2 base theory was never mentioned or even hinted in the show.

When goku fought in base, krillin mentions how OP goku has gotten, much more powerful than when he fought beerus.

There is no proof that he changed his mind between the movie and Super.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I keep seeing the Whis castle comparison on how they can't be God level.....when Goku and Vegeta easily got much, much stronger well after that statement is made. At the least, they're far beyond their levels in the Boo saga in Base. That seems like a given.

[buutenks]

There is no proof that he changed his mind between the movie and Super.

yes there is. Whis stating that base saiyans are far below the level of gods.

I keep seeing the Whis castle comparison on how they can't be God level.....when Goku and Vegeta easily got much, much stronger well after that statement is made. At the least, they're far beyond their levels in the Boo saga in Base. That seems like a given.

No thats not why I'm using that line.

Some say goku before he went to train with whis= ssg goku, aka a 6 to beerus' 10.

But whis says base goku is far below beerus' level. So goku couldnt have been at god tier when he got to whis.

And ofc they got stronger in their base form after training with whis, however its unknown by how much so doesnt really matter.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Saying it "doesn't matter" can be said about anything.

Beers acknowledged how much stronger they had gotten and challenged them before Whis sealed them in that God room to get even stronger.

Claiming they're Boo saga level in Base just seems so silly. It's like no one wants to see any progression in this series sometimes.