Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

OutlawTorn · Post by **OutlawTorn** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:08 pm

VegettoEX wrote:To be honest, I'm kinda on the side of "lesser" fans. To a degree.

Note that I didn't say "not a real fan".

While I agree with the principle, I don't particularly like the "lesser fan" label as it sounds condescending to a degree. Perhaps "casual fan" would be a more appropriate description?

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:10 pm

Big Momma wrote:Wait...what's the difference between Shin Chan and Crayon Shin Chan?

Well, the original Crayon Shin-chan program, sort of a watered-down version of The Simpsons, or maybe a more crude Dennis the Menace, was licensed by Funimation and transformed it into a more crude South Park-esque show with a lot of American pop culture references.

To be honest, I find it pretty funny. Funimation actually hired comedy writers to help them with the scripts, and it shows.

Shin-chan lacks the heart of Crayon Shin-chan, though, and ends up being little more than a parody dub.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:12 pm

OutlawTorn wrote:While I agree with the principle, I don't particularly like the "lesser fan" label as it sounds condescending to a degree. Perhaps "casual fan" would be a more appropriate description?

I was thinking about that, but "casual" these days brings to mind "casual" vs "hardcore" gaming, and you can just just as hardcore about Wii Sports as someone else is about Left 4 Dead... so... that didn't work :/

I'm still torn on the "lesser fan" thing, because I simply don't know how to put it in words. I think Kunzait_83's done a great job of trying to pull it back to the conversation at hand (which I've failed at a few times, it seems).

It's really about the two versions of the show (and plenty others out there) just not being the same, and the "reversioning" fans somehow getting offended when it's pointed out to them in the general course of discussion, or when they flat-out ask people to explain why we feel that way. If you don't want to know, don't ask! ^_~

saiyangerl · Post by **saiyangerl** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:19 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
OutlawTorn wrote:While I agree with the principle, I don't particularly like the "lesser fan" label as it sounds condescending to a degree. Perhaps "casual fan" would be a more appropriate description?
I was thinking about that, but "casual" these days brings to mind "casual" vs "hardcore" gaming, and you can just just as hardcore about Wii Sports as someone else is about Left 4 Dead... so... that didn't work :/

I'm still torn on the "lesser fan" thing, because I simply don't know how to put it in words. I think Kunzait_83's done a great job of trying to pull it back to the conversation at hand (which I've failed at a few times, it seems).

It's really about the two versions of the show (and plenty others out there) just not being the same, and the "reversioning" fans somehow getting offended when it's pointed out to them in the general course of discussion, or when they flat-out ask people to explain why we feel that way. If you don't want to know, don't ask! ^_~

My personal take on the lesser fan thing would be that perhaps it's more suited for fans that don't even come to this messageboard. I mean obviously everyone is here for enlightening discussion on DB/Z. People that aren't interested in delving further into the fandom by coming to messageboards such as this and/or exploring the differences with that of the original. Basically going back to sort of what VegettoEX was saying about how he enjoys reading Harry Potter but aside from just reading it just isn't interested in anything beyond that.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:21 pm

VegettoEX wrote: the "reversioning" fans somehow getting offended when it's pointed out to them in the general course of discussion

Um, what? We're (or at least I am, can't speak for everyone) becoming offended because we're being called inferior. It's not even really that I'm offended, it's more or less that I'm agitated at the fact that I'm being labeled as some sort of peasant for preferring the dub while the sub fans are proclaiming themselves as some sort of white knights of truth and justice that look down upon us.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:24 pm

No one has called you inferior. Not even penguintruth. He simply said that you're not a fan of DBZ, you're a fan of FUNimation's version of DBZ. That's not really calling you "inferior"; it means you don't like DBZ (Because you like something else. Something similar, yet different)

saiyangerl wrote:My personal take on the lesser fan thing would be that perhaps it's more suited for fans that don't even come to this messageboard. I mean obviously everyone is here for enlightening discussion on DB/Z. People that aren't interested in delving further into the fandom by coming to messageboards such as this and/or exploring the differences with that of the original. Basically going back to sort of what VegettoEX was saying about how he enjoys reading Harry Potter but aside from just reading it just isn't interested in anything beyond that.

I don't think you'd be a "lesser fans" by not going on Dragon Ball forums. I think people who don't visit Dragon Ball forums would be the "casual fans".

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:24 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:it's more or less that I'm agitated at the fact that I'm being labeled as some sort of peasant for preferring the dub while the sub fans are proclaiming themselves as some sort of white knights of truth and justice that look down upon us.

And there you go again.

It's not you that's "inferior", it's the show itself that is "different".

This wasn't about you. This was about the show. Somehow the dub fans dragged themselves, personally into the discussion, when if you look back, the original question is simply asking what about the show itself and your outlooks on fandom cause you to not delve deeper into an appreciation of the original.

saiyangerl · Post by **saiyangerl** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:25 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:I don't think you'd be a "lesser fans" by not going on Dragon Ball forums. I think people who don't visit Dragon Ball forums would be the "casual fans".

Casual fans, lesser fans, I don't even know what to refer to it as anymore. I'm just going off of what others have been referring to it as, whatever it is. But I'll switch to casual fan now.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:31 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote:it's more or less that I'm agitated at the fact that I'm being labeled as some sort of peasant for preferring the dub while the sub fans are proclaiming themselves as some sort of white knights of truth and justice that look down upon us.
And there you go again.

It's not you that's "inferior", it's the show itself that is "different".

This wasn't about you. This was about the show. Somehow the dub fans dragged themselves, personally into the discussion, when if you look back, the original question is simply asking what about the show itself and your outlooks on fandom cause you to not delve deeper into an appreciation of the original.

I dragged myself personally into it when penguintruth initially called a group, that I am a part of, lesser fans. So how is that not about the fans and in turn myself? As far as the original question goes, this thread has long since deviated from whatever it was that the original poster asked, (I'll admit I don't even remember what this thread was originally about) and has turned into something completely different, it happens, you know that better than anyone.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:45 pm

Yeah, casual doesn't quite work because 'lesser' doesn't really refer to the intensity of one's fandom the way penguin's using it. I've only watched the series once subtitled, from February 2008 through April of this year, and I don't really have any plans to watch the 444 episodes again for quite a while. Meanwhile I'm sure there's dub fans who put in the DVDs every day or week. In this context 'lesser' just means less familiar with the story as Toriyama wrote it.

saiyangerl · Post by **saiyangerl** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:48 pm

Ultimate_DB_Fan wrote:I was wondering if there are any members here who specifically listen to the dub version of the entire series and don't bother with the original Japanese version at all? Basically, DB, DBZ, and DBGT completely dubbed.
If you do, why?
Let's try to keep it civil.

This was the original question.

I don't remember if I answered it or not. I might have. But my answer would be that I do listen to the dub of the entire series but I do check out parts of the Japanese version from time to time and am aware of the differences and have an interest in it as well. Why? I'm used to the dub I suppose and I personally don't have a problem with the voices, Ocean and Funi, except for the little hiccup/adjusting they had when they first switched over. And all the differences between the dub and the original are not a big deal for me personally. I can look past them. I still have a natural curiosity and interest in the original as well though even though I mostly prefer the dub.

Post by **TripleRach** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:59 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I'm just now reading the Harry Potter books. I have no interest in discussing things about them, finding out where Rowling's ideas came from, learning the meaning behind certain names, the origin of the names of spells... I just don't care.

Am I not a real fan? Not true at all. I enjoy reading the books for what they are, and that's as far as I want to take it.

While I agree with that to an extent, not every dub fan of Dragon Ball falls into that category, especially here. I've seen plenty of people who actively seek out that kind of background information about the series, yet prefer the dub solely because of a music and voice preference. In some cases, they seem to only acknowledge the original version's take on events and characters, so they're obviously informed and prefer the proper version of the story.

That's not every dub fan, of course, but then not every sub fan knows the series in and out, either. There are still people that take crappy old fansub or manga translations as gospel, because they apparently haven't cared enough to seek out proper translations or accurate information. It goes both ways, so I don't think it's fair to judge someone's level of fan-ness based solely on whether or not they like the dub.

Also, a few pages back I tried to say some of the things Kunzait said, and I failed miserably. Good job, sir.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:15 pm

Hm, see... this is very subjective and situational. Lesser fan or casual fan may not apply on the grounds that someone could be completely in love with the franchise, buy all releases, hang out on forums, and in general be a "hardcore fan" and prefer the dub.

However, there comes a point in fandom where people analyze and break down the story. And if one's primary source of info is the dub, it's like looking at something a small ways under clear water. You can see it pretty well, but there's some distortion. Bringing the dub into a detailed conversation is like bringing fanfiction into a Star Wars debate that's already juggling the films and expanded universe.

I would say that a desire to analyze the original material comes hand in hand with a certain level of fandom.

I'm going to use Kunzait, for a moment. Now, he loves Chrono Trigger. He played it on SNES, and has revisted it over the years. He discusses it willingly with other fans if the topic comes up. It isn't on his top RPG lists, but he is a fan.

Now me? I love Chrono Trigger too. I claim it as my favorite game. I have played it dozens of times, purchased every domestic release, played it in japanese for the fuck of it, and played the uber-literal fan translation project. I have soundtrack CDs. I've beaten the sequel numerous times, and even forced my way through Radical Dreamers. I listen to remix arrangements, download fanart, and participate in discussion at the Chrono Compendium (where analysis of the series is taken to a borderline unhealthy level).

Do I think Kunzait's level of CT fandom is less than mine? Hell yeah. Does that hamper our ability to geek out over the series? Not really. Noone is obligated to analyze the original source material or in general obsess over a series in order to call themselves a fan.

But by the same token, do not get in the faces of people who DO obsess over it to that degree because you feel that someone's insulted your street cred. I prefer the Sailor Moon dub to the original, but you would NEVER find me on a hardcore Sailor Moon forum spouting off about the dub.

I dunno... I think applying a label to someone for watching the dub is wrong. On the other hand, I think if you watch the original, you do get a bit more of a hardcore label. I'm sorry dub fans, but that's just how it is. If you only watch the dub, you can't even go from Dragon Ball to Z with consistency. Dragon Ball is fairly faithful, but anachronistic as all hell. jumping to Z then leads to a far different script and characterization and different music. Flashbacks and references to the original show are often wrong or omitted. I just watched the dub Pilaf Saga with my girlfriend, and I can't believe the wonderful Yamcha portrayed there is going to be the guy singing "cat loves food" and talking about how "whack" things are while watching the conflict on Namek. It's inconsistent, riddled with the equivolent of fan theories (especially during flashbacks), and makes serious analysis VERY difficult.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:49 pm

Onikage725 wrote:It isn't on his top RPG lists, but he is a fan.

Hey now, just cause CT doesn't rank as (ridiculously) high on my list of all time favorite RPGs as it does yours doesn't mean that it isn't on there at all.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:53 pm

When I saw this topic again.....
Er..... actually, I'm not fan of Dragon Ball, I only like this series and have it memorized on DVD's, manga books and videogames, that's all.......

Bye bye

*running away so fast*

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:59 pm

Well, now, Chrono Trigger is something I can agree on. It's my favorite video game!

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:10 am

Chrono Trigger is awesome,but I never managed to finish it with other ending then that one with the editors at The End Of Time..... Man this game was so huge and difficult for me at that time that I was happy to finish it like this and never managed to finish it with alternate ending...... I thing that this game is better then most of Final Fantasy's games, I really love that idea of time travel..... I was really dissapointed by Chrono Cross, if it was some try to make series like Final Fantasy, for me it failed.

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:11 am

VegettoEX wrote:To be honest, I'm kinda on the side of "lesser" fans. To a degree.

Note that I didn't say "not a real fan".

I'm just now reading the Harry Potter books. I have no interest in discussing things about them, finding out where Rowling's ideas came from, learning the meaning behind certain names, the origin of the names of spells... I just don't care.

Am I not a real fan? Not true at all. I enjoy reading the books for what they are, and that's as far as I want to take it.

Am I less of a fan than someone who would... for example... run the equivalent of Daizenshuu EX for that series? Absolutely! I don't have the time, dedication, or interest in doing that. The way I see it, I'm "less" of a fan than that individual. Am I not real? Do I somehow not exist? Do I somehow not matter?

Not at all.

The problem (just as with the FUNimation quote about "hardcore") is that people take everything personally to heart as if someone just raped their childhood with the decapitated head of a moose vomited on by a cat that was just run over by their mother.

I'm also not even quite sure what the conversation is anymore, though I'm not going to go to Big Momma's extent and keep saying that over and over and adding in stupid images to shove the point at you all (Yes, I've deleted your post. Please stop. It's obnoxious.).

I think pengiuntruth might be taking it a little far with his wording, but then again, just like he said... certain people are taking the words at waaaaay more than face value and somehow interpreting it as an attack on their own personal character... which is nonsense.

It seems more and more that the FUNimation loyalists are simply unable to separate themselves and their fandom from a conversation about the greater fandom. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... perhaps that's just karma kicking the so-called "purists" in the ass for defending those viewpoints on the internet a decade ago, but whatever.

Also, yeah. It's you dub fans totally getting all sarcastic, pompous, and ridiculous. Step back and look at your posts. If you don't want to be called the things you are and separated the way you are and looked at the way you are... I dunno, maybe don't act that way...?

Oh yeah.. There's no sarcasm in this post.Hypocrite.

m121akuma · Post by **m121akuma** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:19 am

mystic trunks wrote: Oh yeah.. There's no sarcasm in this post.Hypocrite.

Actually, there really isn't. At all. It's actually one of the more civil posts in the thread.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:21 am

You know, as I left the computer about an hour ago to walk to my friends house I was thinking about this on the way there and I said it to myself out loud, "Some guy on the internet told me I'm a lesser fan than him". You know what I did? I laughed! This whole thing has been incredibly silly.

So yeah, just thought I'd throw that out there.... hope I didn't create any lasting grudges with anyone.

Kanzenshuu

Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

Re: Die hard dub fans