Has TFS damaged the reputation of the franchise in the U.S.?

[KentalSSJ6]

Listen, ImmaDekker has his own sensibilities and, while I find his attitude to be both unnecessarily insulting and dangerously inflammatory, I think it's best not to focus too much on it and to just let him have his opinion. He has no interest in having a civil, polite, personal conversation about any of these topics, nor will he budge his opinions on any single subject he brings up. That's not what he's here for, that's not what he wants.

This also isn't necessarily the place to talk about Let's Plays and their values, though how they relate to us might be on topic. Either way, he absolutely does not like TFS, what it does, what it stands for, and he's certainly allowed to feel that way and voice it in the appropriate places; one of them basically being here.

Speaking of Let's Plays, you have any plans for another DBZ game? Possibly Burst Limit? Correct me if you already did it.

[ABED]

So what's the consensus, does it damage DB's reputation in the US?

[KaiserNeko]

Listen, ImmaDekker has his own sensibilities and, while I find his attitude to be both unnecessarily insulting and dangerously inflammatory, I think it's best not to focus too much on it and to just let him have his opinion. He has no interest in having a civil, polite, personal conversation about any of these topics, nor will he budge his opinions on any single subject he brings up. That's not what he's here for, that's not what he wants.

This also isn't necessarily the place to talk about Let's Plays and their values, though how they relate to us might be on topic. Either way, he absolutely does not like TFS, what it does, what it stands for, and he's certainly allowed to feel that way and voice it in the appropriate places; one of them basically being here.

Speaking of Let's Plays, you have any plans for another DBZ game? Possibly Burst Limit? Correct me if you already did it.

We were going to record Burst Limit, but unfortunately we did not have the equipment to record off of Lanipator's PS3. Perhaps in the future!

[ImmaDeker]

I used to think that was the problem, but no, now I'm just pretty sure you love being inflammatory for the sake of being inflammatory. For God's sake, you didn't even manage not to be for an entire post when you yourself said you were going to tone it down for a second. Is your condescending jerk switch just stuck in the 'On' position 24/7 or something?

More blood for the blood god, etc.

I don't disagree that those who make money from sitting in front of a game and talking shit for 10 minutes a video is depressing. However, there's plenty of people, like myself, who spend a great deal of time scripting, filming and cutting together content to create something of actual quality. TeamFourStar put insane amounts of work into their content and you somehow believe they're not entitled to make money off of it?

Right, but I assume if I sit in on one of your videos, it's not the thing I'm saying is stupid.

(TeamFourStar is a crock of bullshit, though.)

I've put a bunch of work into terrible entertainment too, though I'd argue a key difference is whether or not it's "LET'S SIT IN FRONT OF DESTINY." I don't know what you do, but given our overlap in opinion, I'm assuming you're not sitting in front of Destiny and making money JUST for that. Presumably there's like, review or commentary involved or whatever. Which is a bit more acceptable, if overplayed as fuck. (Though I don't, strictly, think there's anything wrong with something being overplayed, so that's whatever)

Deker I need to ask, how do you sit with that stick up your ass? I mean at this point you could qualify as a Jeff Dunham puppet.

Levitation.

Listen, ImmaDekker has his own sensibilities and, while I find his attitude to be both unnecessarily insulting and dangerously inflammatory, I think it's best not to focus too much on it and to just let him have his opinion. This also isn't necessarily the place to talk about Let's Plays and their values, though how they relate to us might be on topic. Either way, he absolutely does not like TFS, what it does, what it stands for, and he's certainly allowed to feel that way and voice it in the appropriate places; one of them basically being here.

Everything you do contributes to what I honest to God feel is a prolonged heat death of creativity.

I take solace, and I sincerely mean this, in the fact you seem like a genuinely good guy. I have no direct, personal beef with you.

One k, though.

[KentalSSJ6]

So what's the consensus, does it damage DB's reputation in the US?

In terms of the internet, I wouldent say "damage" is the word of choice. Theres absolutely no doubt a good degree of material from Abridged has effected the fanbase and some aspects of the show (peoples views on Popo, Yamcha, Gohan etc) and time and time again youll often see Abridged related comments in nearly every DBZ video on youtube.

Personally, I cant really say as I know very few people aside from a friend or 2 who watch DBZ that much. So I guess you can say it depends on what aspect were talking about.

[rereboy]

So what's the consensus, does it damage DB's reputation in the US?

I don't think there's any evidence regarding that. The impression seems to be that it actually increases DB's popularity, which I don't think can actually be bad for the franchise.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Considering the way the question is phrased, has it damaged the 'reputation' of the franchise? I would say again that, no, I'd say probably not. I know of some friends that have gotten back into regular Dragon Ball, at least a little bit, due to the Abridged version, so I fail to see how that could be 'damaging'.

As I and others have noted before though, in some cases it has been damaging for the fanbase: people taking their dismissive attitudes towards the 'weaker' characters to whole new levels; taking the Abridged version lines and personalities into discussions about the series proper; taking said lines/personalities into decision making for voting in tournaments and such; etc. But that still falls down far more on the individual fan in question than it does TFS - blaming them for it would be like blaming an act of violence on a TV show or movie for existing rather than actually looking at where it really came from.

...Oh, wait. People still actually do that. ...*Sigh*

[ABED]

Follow up, and I'm asking this question honestly, what makes you believe it's helped the franchise? Do you mean more people are watching? What about the parody would lead to a more popular show?

I have no hard facts, but other than preaching to the converted, I don't think it's had any discernible effect on the fanbase at large, positive or negative. Maybe a few lines are quoted, but I wouldn't say that's made it more popular.

[KaiserNeko]

Follow up, and I'm asking this question honestly, what makes you believe it's helped the franchise? Do you mean more people are watching? What about the parody would lead to a more popular show?

I have no hard facts, but other than preaching to the converted, I don't think it's had any discernible effect on the fanbase at large. Maybe a few lines are quoted, but I wouldn't say that's made it more popular.

Without tipping my hand too much (because unlike almost every single person here, I actually have an idea of the impact we've had on the series), if we weren't considered good advertisement for the show: Do any of you legitimately believe we'd be allowed to exist?

[ABED]

Follow up, and I'm asking this question honestly, what makes you believe it's helped the franchise? Do you mean more people are watching? What about the parody would lead to a more popular show?

I have no hard facts, but other than preaching to the converted, I don't think it's had any discernible effect on the fanbase at large. Maybe a few lines are quoted, but I wouldn't say that's made it more popular.

Without tipping my hand too much (because unlike almost every single person here, I actually have an idea of the impact we've had on the series), if we weren't considered good advertisement for the show: Do any of you legitimately believe we'd be allowed to exist?

Why wouldn't you, it's a parody.

[rereboy]

Follow up, and I'm asking this question honestly, what makes you believe it's helped the franchise? Do you mean more people are watching? What about the parody would lead to a more popular show?

I have no hard facts, but other than preaching to the converted, I don't think it's had any discernible effect on the fanbase at large, positive or negative. Maybe a few lines are quoted, but I wouldn't say that's made it more popular.

There are people who weren't big fans or weren't fans at all of DB before watching abridged but became interested in it after coming in contact with abridged for some reason. So, it helped increase its popularity even in non-commited fans. However, if that increase is significant or not is impossible to say.

Without tipping my hand too much (because unlike almost every single person here, I actually have an idea of the impact we've had on the series), if we weren't considered good advertisement for the show: Do any of you legitimately believe we'd be allowed to exist?

Well... To be quite honest... If you had no impact/popularity whatsoever, probably they wouldn't bother shutting you down.

[ImmaDeker]

Follow up, and I'm asking this question honestly, what makes you believe it's helped the franchise? Do you mean more people are watching? What about the parody would lead to a more popular show?

I have no hard facts, but other than preaching to the converted, I don't think it's had any discernible effect on the fanbase at large. Maybe a few lines are quoted, but I wouldn't say that's made it more popular.

Without tipping my hand too much (because unlike almost every single person here, I actually have an idea of the impact we've had on the series), if we weren't considered good advertisement for the show: Do any of you legitimately believe we'd be allowed to exist?

Why wouldn't you, it's a parody.

Using unlicensed footage.

If they were REALLY damaging, they'd be shut down hard. They're doing this sort of production without actually licensing the intellectual property used to create said production.

[KaiserNeko]

Why wouldn't you, it's a parody.

Using unlicensed footage.

If they were REALLY damaging, they'd be shut down hard. They're doing this sort of production without actually licensing the intellectual property used to create said production.

This, precisely. Trust me, I actually know the deal, here.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Why wouldn't you, it's a parody.

Because in this case the 'parody' definitely is in a bit of a legal 'gray' area. I feel it's all right, you feel it's all right, probably most people would feel it's all right...but if Toei and/or FUNimation suddenly decided to exert a heavier iron fist over their products? They and whatever legal representation they could potentially go to might feel differently, and could spin a case together showcasing exactly why they feel that way.

I mean, while Abridging is radically different from fansubbing is, I wouldn't be surprised if an Abridged group could or ever has been sent a C&S letter before.

[rereboy]

Using unlicensed footage.

If they were REALLY damaging, they'd be shut down hard. They're doing this sort of production without actually licensing the intellectual property used to create said production.

That has already been discussed. Its not that simple. As a parody they should enjoy legal protection. The real reason why they would be shut down would be because, once they had been singled out and contacted legally or otherwise to shut down, they probably wouldn't want to spend fortunes in court defending themselves against companies with very deep pockets and expensive lawyers.

[ImmaDeker]

That has already been discussed.

Discussed incorrectly. It's a "parody" wherein unlicensed intellectual property IS the bulk of said property. If they did their own DBZ animations, or sketches, or whatever, that'd be one thing. Fair Use constitutes stuff like using footage as the piece of, say, an academic presentation. Not "dubbing over the footage we don't own."

Dynaman had to be licensed. A TV studio couldn't have just DUBBED OVER DYNAMAN with no permission just because it was, technically, comedically intended commentary on aspects of Dynaman. TFS may not make direct revenue from usage of said footage, but they still have cultivated a brand identity (and revenue product) deriving from this unlicensed footage. They could not reasonably defend themselves.

[ABED]

I'm not a legal expert but I am aware of how companies make decisions about whether to defend their IP, in many cases they don't go after people because it's bad PR and/or the cost of litigation outweighs the benefits. I think it's naïve to think that no one is going after them because they are good a advertisement for the official product.

[dbzfan7]

Nope. Only thing damaged was Yamcha. He's even more ridiculed now than ever before. Hope no one is a Yamcha fan.

[KaiserNeko]

I'm not a legal expert

Much like most of us here, which is why it's so interesting (read: questionable) to see such heated debate on the subject of our legality and how that relates to our positive or negative impact on the fandom.

I honestly wish I could speak openly about how much I know. But honestly? I've likely already said too much. Regardless, I know more about the specifics in dealing with us (not necessarily law, just how we relate to this whole mess) and I've already said my piece.

[ABED]

Nope. Only thing damaged was Yamcha. He's even more ridiculed now than ever before. Hope no one is a Yamcha fan.

Here's my issue with statements like this, this is all based on personal anecdotes and intuition, not hard statistics. I could just as easily say that I don't think there's any discernible difference in people's perceptions of Yamcha, especially not amongst DB fans at large. He's more or less seen as he always was.

Much like most of us here, which is why it's so interesting (read: questionable) to see such heated debate on the subject of our legality and how that relates to our positive or negative impact on the fandom..

I honestly wish I could speak openly about how much I know. But honestly? I've likely already said too much. Regardless, I know more about the specifics in dealing with us (not necessarily law, just how we relate to this whole mess) and I've already said my piece.

Is there a gag order? What stops you from saying "we've had X effect..." if it's an empirical objective fact?