Chiki wrote: Super Vegitto does toy around with the strongest of Super Buu's versions as if he was nothing, he has the fight beyond totally under control, he's insanely powerful, but I wouldn't say that even in his Super Saiya-jin form he's something in the order of tens or hundreds of times stronger than Super Buu when he fights him
As such, you can't really just dismiss my argument of Super Vegitto being "only" about twice as strong as Ultimate Gohan/Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku as "not true at all" basing yourself too on nothing other than mere speculation, just as I'm doing and anyone else can do.
Here is evidence. We see battles where even if one person is significantly stronger than the other, the weaker one can still perform well. For example, Cell was significantly more powerful than Goku but Goku was still able to significantly hurt him (kill him if not for Cell's regeneration). 100% Freeza (power level 120 million) did pretty well against SSJ Goku (power level 150 million) in the anime, not sure about the manga. This means that Goku is 25% more powerful than Freeza. As you said, Super Vegito vs. Buuhan was beyond totally under Vegito's control. This indicates that the gap between Buuhan and Super Vegito is much greater.
We have no way of knowing how large this gap is. An opponent three times as powerful as Buuhan (this would make Super Vegito over 5 times as powerful as SSJ3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan) could have done just as well as an opponent fifty times as powerful as Buuhan. After a certain power gap it doesn't really matter. Super Vegito could have owned Gohan and SSJ3 Goku and Buu and whatever just as easily as Beerus did, but we know for a fact that Super Vegito is much weaker than Beerus.
Because we have no way of knowing how large this gap is, it means that your view has become pure speculation and not mine.
Besides, Super Buu is EXTREMELY powerful, but "merely" absorbing powerful warriors doesn't necessarily or automatically mean you're a martial arts expert, there's more to fighting and winning a battle than sheer power;
Actually it does, because he absorbed Piccolo and Gohan. Buu inherited Piccolo's intelligence when he absorbed him, so obviously he inherited his knowledge about martial arts as well.
Hmm, Vegitto is comprised of both Goku and Vegeta, BOTH of whom "happen" to be pure Saiya-jins, martial arts experts, constantly training and fighting to surpass and overcome their limits, as well as those of everyone else's, they're masters in Ki manipulation and have been constantly perfecting their abilities through incessant fighting for years against the most powerful opponents they could find in each arc before the Majin Buu saga, many of whom were stronger than them at the time of their respective encounters, so one could argue that the resulting being of a perfect fusion between them is not only EXTREMELY powerful, it also has a complete, total and absolute mastery of all aspects of martial arts, and I still think that's just not the case with any of the versions of Super Buu, including the strongest one.
I knew you would come up with the absorption of Piccolo argument, and you're right, absorbing an extremely tactical and intelligent warrior did increase his level of sapience and knowledge (of martial arts and everything else), but he's still far too inexperienced at fighting anyone close to/on par/beyond his level, not to mention the fact that Majin Buu is a magically created creature in his origins and doesn't even probably have the same concept of "good" and "evil" as other normal, emotional beings do. He destroys everything and everyone in sight because that's what his nature is, that's what he was created for, and his level of sapience and his entire attitude - especially in his original, Kid Buu version - comes down to a complete sociopath who relies on his MASSIVE power to have huge fights with opponents enough to challenge him (only a few in the Universe, in fact), so his somewhat-upgraded versions (both in terms of power and as far as knowledge and sapience go) build up on that basis, I think he still lacks a lot of experience and wisdom EVEN after incorporating someone as intelligent as Piccolo in his system.
There really is no definitive way to put an end to this particular debate, nobody's going to come out and officially state just how stronger Super Vegitto is when compared to Super Buu, or any variation of the many fights throughout the Majin Buu arc.
My whole and main point in the previous post was that there's not as huge a difference between base Vegitto and Super Vegitto when compared to the difference there is between a non-fused base Saiya-jin and his Super Saiya-jin version.
Due to the other-wordly effects of Fusion, especially through the Potara method, it's pretty obvious that it allows the ultimately fused warrior to overcome the power limits "imposed" by his physical stage. Vegitto in his base form is obviously stronger than ANYONE else, even Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku, and he's even slightly stronger than that in his Super Saiya-jin form. I believe that if it wasn't for fusion, this would be almost impossible, there are limits to the power you can reach while in each form (base, Super Saiya-jin, Super Saiya-jin 2, etc.) and only under extremely temporary or strange circumstances can a Saiya-jin go beyond the natural limits "imposed" by each stage (Vegeta surpassing Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku without actually undergoing a transformation beyond Super Saiya-jin 2 is one of the few examples of that throughout DBZ).
On another note, it's been speculated over the years what would happen if Vegitto went beyond Super Saiya-jin and reached Super Saiya-jin 2 (both Goku and Vegeta have arguably completely mastered the stage at the point when they fuse), or even Super Saiya-jin 3 (at least one of them is capable of transforming into it, and the resulting fused warrior should too); as in, would it increase his power by insane proportions? This connects a little bit to what we're discussing. I think Vegitto as a separate entity/warrior is just so perfect and powerful that he's almost as powerful as he can get even in his base form, as in, transforming into ANY Super Saiya-jin stage doesn't increase his power by the rate it does when applied to other non-fused Saiya-jin, but that remains just an unproved theory, and it will never be proven right or wrong anyway.
Speaking of fusion, we discussed this in another thread a few days and weeks ago: it's rather obvious that they're deliberately avoiding to go down that road, but the sheer concept of a merger between Goku and Vegeta is just too appealing, and, perhaps exactly because of that, it hasn't been given enough time to explore and expand upon (Vegitto is only around for a few episodes, and Gogeta isn't even canon, both in Movie 12 and in GT). At least they did at least mention it (Goku does) in DBSuper, just as he does in BoG, so the idea is at least still in the air somewhat. I know it won't happen and it's just too far-fetched a scenario, but going through an exercise of wishful thinking, that's the concept I'd like them to bring back at some point in DBSuper, and I think no Dragonball fan can deny the appeal it has.
