"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[JulieYBM]

I don't think killing Freeza is the most appropriate course of action. When we last saw him it was in an art where the theme was "there's no easy way to power"—Freeza had surmounted them all simply by—presumedly—training. For Freeza to then have his training surpassed—or perhaps, not surpassed—would be a far more fitting end if Freeza simply came to the conclusion that he wanted to turn around, go home, and try to defeat Gokuu and friends again another day. A Freeza who has changed from his own pride getting in his way when defeated would be a nice note to go out on, I think.

Of course, I do think there's just still room to show us Freeza's POV and learn who he is as a person now, rather than in his past. If they decided to bring in Kuriiza, how would that inform Freeza's character arc?

There's lots of different stories that could be told right now, and I think that's what makes the future of Dragon Ball so exciting.

[IndieBooToo]

If it wasn't for that panel of Vegeta looking angrily at the sky and that message saying the goal of their training is to defeat Black Freeza, plus the movie implication that Freeza was after Broly or something, then perhaps I could give a little bit of credence to the "oh Freeza's thing is done with, stop dreaming, stories don't have to follow up on what they hint at" take.
I also don't think we would be, or have been ever, for that matter, introduced to a new force that dwarfs the MCs only for that person to be forgotten like he's Tarble or some sort of Armin Tamzarian.
I don't think he is after our boys but after Broly, this could buy Toyo some time when it comes to when his story is told.

Will it be the next arc? well, I don't this series can keep on cramming even more new people in what it was supposed to be a 10-year hiatus of peace, specially when we are so close to EoZ. The fact that more and tougher challenges than in Z happened in this midquel still doesn't sparkle with me. So, the less the better.

Black Freeza's conclusion (killing him, learning he has reached his limit and it has been surpassed, or whatever it's in store for him) seems to be a story best told after the tourney. I wouldn't mind a brief light-hearted arc about the pre and the actual TB, and after EoZ going full force into this new territory with this weirdo in mind.

1. That was Vegeta being a butthurt loser knowing that not only has Frieza kicked his ass again but Frieza is now way stronger than him. That doesn't mean shit. It means as much as Vegeta being angry whenever Goku surpasses him.
2. Goku only mentioned that he took Broly to Beerus was so Frieza wouldn't be able to find him(so Frieza won't take advantage of him like the Broly film ending clearly had Frieza planning to do) but the main reason Goku took Broly to Beerus so he'd be able to learn to control his power.


I don't even think Frieza gives that much of a shit about Broly anymore. He only really cared back when he was far weaker than Broly and needed a strong weapon to help him defeat Goku and Vegeta. But now that he's far stronger than Broly, his interest in him might not even be as strong as before.

Just don't be surprise this "Black Frieza" arc never happens because people don't understand what Dragon Ball is about when it comes to narrative. It's never meant to be that serious and Black Frieza's conception was based on credit card system. His brief appearance at the end of the arc when he trashed everyone almost comes off as a gag. That's why I'm embarrassed reading all these theories about Black Frieza because they really are making it deeper and more serious than the writers are.

[Koitsukai]

If it wasn't for that panel of Vegeta looking angrily at the sky and that message saying the goal of their training is to defeat Black Freeza, plus the movie implication that Freeza was after Broly or something, then perhaps I could give a little bit of credence to the "oh Freeza's thing is done with, stop dreaming, stories don't have to follow up on what they hint at" take.
I also don't think we would be, or have been ever, for that matter, introduced to a new force that dwarfs the MCs only for that person to be forgotten like he's Tarble or some sort of Armin Tamzarian.
I don't think he is after our boys but after Broly, this could buy Toyo some time when it comes to when his story is told.

Will it be the next arc? well, I don't this series can keep on cramming even more new people in what it was supposed to be a 10-year hiatus of peace, specially when we are so close to EoZ. The fact that more and tougher challenges than in Z happened in this midquel still doesn't sparkle with me. So, the less the better.

Black Freeza's conclusion (killing him, learning he has reached his limit and it has been surpassed, or whatever it's in store for him) seems to be a story best told after the tourney. I wouldn't mind a brief light-hearted arc about the pre and the actual TB, and after EoZ going full force into this new territory with this weirdo in mind.

1. That was Vegeta being a butthurt loser knowing that not only has Frieza kicked his ass again but Frieza is now way stronger than him.

Nope, that was the author saying their goal is to surpass Freeza.

[miguelnuva1]

Personally I'd rather see

Beerus vs Black Frieza where Beerus has to use full power and

Goku/Vegeta/Gogeta vs Beerus

More than a Goku Beerus rematch.

[Bardock God of Time]

Personally I'd rather see

Beerus vs Black Frieza where Beerus has to use full power and

Goku/Vegeta/Gogeta vs Beerus

More than a Goku Beerus rematch.

You think about how much Frieza has trained, 10 years, he probably got insanely strong with his genetics in mind. Possibly stronger than Beerus or equal in strength

It would be so cool to see Beerus go full strength, maybe Beerus could even tap into Omen for all we know. What if when he was sleeping recently, he was image training and training his mind

I feel like that would explain the moving goal post of Beerus, Beerus does find time to train

[dbs fanboy]

Personally I'd rather see

Beerus vs Black Frieza where Beerus has to use full power and

Goku/Vegeta/Gogeta vs Beerus

More than a Goku Beerus rematch.

You think about how much Frieza has trained, 10 years, he probably got insanely strong with his genetics in mind. Possibly stronger than Beerus or equal in strength

It would be so cool to see Beerus go full strength, maybe Beerus could even tap into Omen for all we know. What if when he was sleeping recently, he was image training and training his mind

I feel like that would explain the moving goal post of Beerus, Beerus does find time to train

I'd find it really funny if every single time Beerus was ¨taking a nap¨ he was in reality doing Pushups, it would be a pretty fun mini panel to include in the volumes, and completely in tone with Dragon Ball's humour.

[AndLad92]

When do you think the manga will return?

[Gt91]

When do you think the manga will return?

Maybe January but I hope even earlier.
We should have some news soon

[MisteryOne]

I really feel bad for Toyotaro. On top of the grief about his master (I still don't even come to terms with it myself just as a fan) he must feel incredible amounts of pressure from now on. Hopefully he still manages to give Frieza and Super as a whole a good wrap up. As much as I like Super Hero it was such a terribke follow up to Granolah (then again that ending felt so rushed despite the hype...maybe thete were plans of another arc between the two?)

Personally I'd rather see

Beerus vs Black Frieza where Beerus has to use full power and

Goku/Vegeta/Gogeta vs Beerus

More than a Goku Beerus rematch.

You think about how much Frieza has trained, 10 years, he probably got insanely strong with his genetics in mind. Possibly stronger than Beerus or equal in strength

It would be so cool to see Beerus go full strength, maybe Beerus could even tap into Omen for all we know. What if when he was sleeping recently, he was image training and training his mind

I feel like that would explain the moving goal post of Beerus, Beerus does find time to train

I'd find it really funny if every single time Beerus was ¨taking a nap¨ he was in reality doing Pushups, it would be a pretty fun mini panel to include in the volumes, and completely in tone with Dragon Ball's humour.

At this point, I would take it. It's the only way to make BoG still belieave in any way after so many things have happened. Specially if he is still somehow stronger than Black Frieza.

[FortuneSSJ]

When do you think the manga will return?

I was expecting Otcober but doesn't seem to be the case. Probably it will only come back when Daima ends...

[InfraredGod]

Speaking of the upcoming Manga content, how do you think the Z Fighters would deal with Black Frieza? There are probably plenty of ways to go about this issue, but the only one I can think of immediately is Fusion. All I know is that we need a character moment for Broly realizing Frieza killed Paragus.

[MisteryOne]

Speaking of the upcoming Manga content, how do you think the Z Fighters would deal with Black Frieza? There are probably plenty of ways to go about this issue, but the only one I can think of immediately is Fusion. All I know is that we need a character moment for Broly realizing Frieza killed Paragus.

I have spoken in other thread about how I think a fusion between Instict and Ego doesn't work conceptually, but that also would make for a pretty boring outcome. Then again, in order for Black Frieza to carry an entire arc he would also need some supporting villain. As it is now he can easily oneshot everyone sure, but that's just the Namek fight again (funnily enough it would be the same cast if we take the strongest characters, only missing Krillin and a healer but swapping them for Broly) and not a very compelling story on its own. If Frieza is going to be a villain again, you need a new threat too even if they are not the main one, a new sidekick/minion. And if he's not going to be a villain again, then make something interesting with him and have him face Beerus. But Black Frieza works exactly because there is no easy way to stop him. Because of how battles in DB work, the recent additions of Piccolo and Gohan don't really make any difference. I would love a team battle Moro style, but again I doubt that would work.

I don't think Broly realizing it would really lead to anything rather than a short rage moment. It would be just the same as when Vegeta learned about Beerus asking Frieza to destroy the Saiyans. Broly should grow beyond caring for his father after realizing he wasn't a good person and that he's better withour him, just like Vegeta did with his race. Personally, I was far more invested on Granolah fighting him, specially because of the many powers he could learn to use, but...well.

But yeah, Fusion/Potara is the only current answer, without any more training. Vegeta could not destroy Gas, so having Hakai is not enough. You could always have the boring way and have Buu eat him, he's too broken.

[InfraredGod]

I do see where you're coming from with Paragus, but considering his death is what triggered his SSJ transformation even though Paragus was a douche, I think learning that Frieza deceived them both and killed his dad just to manipulate him in an attempt to kill Goku and Vegeta should amount to SOMETHING. Not to mention the fact that both Paragus and Broly STILL BELIEVE the meteor lie about their planet. Even if this only amounts to a rage moment within the fight, I would still like to see Broly's reaction to what Frieza really did.

As for UI and UE being incompatible, that makes complete sense. They're complete parallels and don't allow any combination. Even though Fusion is the easy way out, there's not much else to do with our current cast to give them the edge. Jumping Frieza wouldn't work since being unable to touch him makes you canon fodder. Piccolo and Gohan also aren't strong enough to compete with Black Frieza yet, so it's hard to involve them in that fight.

Frieza needing a partner would be an easy way to make Cooler canon, but honestly, that just seems like more lazy nostalgia bait.

We TOTALLY need a fight with Black Frieza and Beerus. Beerus's power scaling has been all over the place and needs to be redefined so we can actually gauge his strength properly. Not only that, but it would set the bar going forward for Goku & Vegeta since they plan to surpass both at some point.

[Noah]

Some of the theories in this thread are pretty interesting. I can't see EoZ happening with a elephant in the room like Black Freeza running around, but I also don't think they'll kill off the emperor of the universe (7) for good this time. As for a possible Tournament of Power 2, it could be cool if they change the structure, because both the anime (apart from a few episodes) and the manga felt pretty lame to me.

But I don’t know if they’ll really give Toyotaro all that freedom we’re theorizing about going forward. The only reason we don’t have anything beyond EoZ (not counting GT) is that Toriyama never felt comfortable writing stories set after the original manga ended. I’m not sure if that’ll change now that he’s passed. Honestly, I’m both excited and worried about what’s coming next without him.

[Yuji]

Some of the theories in this thread are pretty interesting. I can't see EoZ happening with a elephant in the room like Black Freeza running around, but I also don't think they'll kill off the emperor of the universe (7) for good this time. As for a possible Tournament of Power 2, it could be cool if they change the structure, because both the anime (apart from a few episodes) and the manga felt pretty lame to me.

But I don’t know if they’ll really give Toyotaro all that freedom we’re theorizing about going forward. The only reason we don’t have anything beyond EoZ (not counting GT) is that Toriyama never felt comfortable writing stories set after the original manga ended. I’m not sure if that’ll change now that he’s passed. Honestly, I’m both excited and worried about what’s coming next without him.

The only outcomes I can see for Freeza are either death, or, like some fans have thrown around, becoming a God of Destruction after he becomes a bit more moderate. I don't think being a consistent looming evil threat or being reformed into a good guy are outcomes the fandom would be happy with.

[InfraredGod]

I don't think being a consistent looming evil threat or being reformed into a good guy are outcomes the fandom would be happy with.

It'd be impossible to pull off a convincing change of heart within Frieza. However, many fans have wanted a fight between him and Beerus, so that should definitely happen before Frieza eventually dies. I doubt he'd show enough restraint to become the next God of Destruction.

[Toxin45]

Meh just want a new dbs movie after daima and if daima is over the characters that debuted in the show up for a follow up arc

[MisteryOne]

The only outcomes I can see for Freeza are either death, or, like some fans have thrown around, becoming a God of Destruction after he becomes a bit more moderate. I don't think being a consistent looming evil threat or being reformed into a good guy are outcomes the fandom would be happy with.

Personally I definetly wouldn't be happy with a Frieza change of heart, but I also can't really hate Black Frieza as the looming threat he is for a lot of people when that was pretty much his closure for the ToP. Had he not decided to again try revenge against the saiyans on Broly, it really feels like the main cast would have just left him free around with only Vegeta being worried about it- and SuperHero kind of killed the momentum after the Granolah arc as well. I know the main casts are not heroes, but letting an evil tyrant free never set right with me anyways. Currently, they at least have the excuse of not being a match for him. That wasn't the case back then.

I have actually seen a surprise amount of people argue about him being a good guy now, trough it's true most of them seem to be Super only watchers. I'm not entirely sure if the fandom would be that upset by now, trough him becoming a Hakaishin is also the most thrown around theory. However, if I want to be cynical, just like I don't think they will kill him for good (I think it would be the most satisfying, but the fanservice is too strong) I'm not sure if they would give him such a neutral role either because then he wouldn't have that many reasons to face the cast. And they probably want him in a position they can milk him when needed.

I don't really have a point here, I just want to point out how they have kind of got themselves against a wall with Frieza. Either he keeps trying to get revenge on Earth specifically (or Namek I guess) or now it would seem weird than the heroes care about him that much. I'm curious to see how they will handle it, which is why the ending of the Granolah arc got my interest and Super Hero being right after killed it. At this point, I won't be surprised if, just like surpasing Beerus, Frieza being kind of a looming evil entity is never fully adressed, just in case they need to bring him back to face Goku and company. I don't think it works as a recurring villain in DB (someone like the sadly wasted Elec could have been better) but still.

The only reason we don’t have anything beyond EoZ (not counting GT) is that Toriyama never felt comfortable writing stories set after the original manga ended.

That wasn't the reason. He specifically said "everyone is too old by then" when talking about EoZ while BoG released as to why it was set in that period, yet he obviously changed his mind if he allowed teen Goten/Trunks and toddler Pan-the difference between Super Hero and EoZ is minimal timeline wise, yet Krillin of all people still got a role.

I don't see any reason to not set future stories after EoZ, specially given the recontextualization Uub got in both the ToP and Moro arcs (which was needed given the powercreep) and Toyotaro's own comments years ago about wanting to lead to it. That being said, considering the current rights issues and the nostalgia pandering of modern DB, I don't think it will really go that much beyond it either because they don't want to retire anyone.

[Zephyr]

The notion that Toriyama didn't want to continue moving forward in time on the grounds that characters were getting too old made some sense, once upon a time. But that stopped making as much sense when we started getting Kame Sennin back in action for F and the ToP. If you don't want to retire a character you can simply keep using them, even if it is to the chagrin of many a fan.

[Yuji]

Well, Daima started airing and we haven't heard anything for the manga. Will it quietly be canned?