The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[shonenhikada]

Since in the second movie Broli could fight a Super Saiyan 2, I will go with him.

But the SSJ2 Broly figts is comparable to Dabura=Cell. Who has only half of Gohan's ki.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But the SSJ2 Broly figts is comparable to Dabura=Cell. Who has only half of Gohan's ki.

First of all, Dabra was said to be stronger than Super Perfect Cell (and let's not question if Gohan was SS or SS2). Secondly, SP Cell wasn't necessarily equal to SS2 Gohan's half power. Not only the Kamehameha's battle power is more than the double battle power of the user, Gohan definitely drew more power from his rage in the end, IMO. Thirdly, Movie 10 SS2 Gohan is stronger than Cell Games SS2 Gohan, since Gohan said that himself.

[Fox666]

First of all, Dabra was said to be stronger than Super Perfect Cell

No he didn't. All Goku said was that Darbra was "probably about as strong as Cell". If he meant before or after his self-destruction is open for interpretation.

Secondly, SP Cell wasn't necessarily equal to SS2 Gohan's half power.

Cell said he "vastly powered-up like Gohan", and judging by their battle, I would say they were roughly evenly matched.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

First of all, Dabra was said to be stronger than Super Perfect Cell

No he didn't. All Goku said was that Darbra was "probably about as strong as Cell". If he meant before or after his self-destruction is open for interpretation.

I don't believe Goku was referring to Dabra's strength being comparative to Cell after the zenkai. Gohan only fought Dabra as a regular Super Saiyan, and Dabra was having a bitch of a time getting the upper hand. Gohan had also been stated to be weaker after the seven years. We can only assume that he was weaker as a Super Saiyan as well as a Super Saiyan 2. Just simply stealing words from you though, that's open for interpretation.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

First of all, Dabra was said to be stronger than Super Perfect Cell

No he didn't. All Goku said was that Darbra was "probably about as strong as Cell". If he meant before or after his self-destruction is open for interpretation.

And later they said that he was stronger than they expected, right? And why would they compare Dabra to a weaker state of Cell? If he was referring to Cell before the power up, then he would have said so. It's like saying in Boo arc the Tenshinhan is about as strong as Goku.

[Fox666]

And later they said that he was stronger than they expected, right?

That doesn't change anything about which state of Cell that Goku spoke of.

Besides Goku wasn't speaking of power, but of his ability to use magic.

And why would they compare Dabra to a weaker state of Cell?

Why not?

If he was referring to Cell before the power up, then he would have said so.

You are trying to use the lack of evidence to prove something.

It's like saying in Boo arc the Tenshinhan is about as strong as Goku.

I have no idea what you meant here.

[dbzfan7]

I agree with DBZGTKOSDH. His argument makes more sense to me. If Goku meant a weaker form of Cell he would have said so. In-Universe they don't have terms such as Super Perfect Cell, Evil Boo, Super Boo, Buff Boo, etc. So when referring to Cell he had to have been referring to the last he saw of Cell. I think it makes the most sense but speculation seems to control this matter.

[Kaboom]

Keep in mind that "Cell" refers to a wide range of power that no other villain falls into. From the moment he first absorbed 17, no other villain matched up to him. Even if Dabra is weaker than Cell at his best, there's still no other villain to compare him to because... well, nobody else compared to him.

[hleV]

Goku never felt Super Perfect Cell's power.

[Mjb1985]

Why didn't Goku sense SPC.

And agreed with Kaboom, there's simply no one comparable. Even Yakon , who by Kaioshin's accounts should be greatly superior to Freeza , most likely doesn't even compared to Imperfect Cell ( Post Absorbtion ) , let alone Semi-Cell.

It's best to use all the evidence we have.

Dabura is ~ Cell.

Dabura is ~ Ssj Teen Gohan.

Ssj Teen Gohan is stated to have grown weaker over the course of 7 years.

Conclusion : The best version of Cell to fit the scenario would be the Powered Up Cell that Goku fought. Dabura being about that powerful seems to make sense.

[dbzfan7]

Nothing says he couldn't sense SPC. Even if he couldn't, he would know where he stood when he watched him battle Gohan.

Anyways I see this argument just went to "was Gohan fighting Dabra at SSJ1 or SSJ2."

Also I thought Gohan was only weaker because he wasn't tapped into his rage, that's where his true strength came from. I thought that was the consensus about Adult Gohan.

[Mjb1985]

Considering that Gohan hasn't trained for 7 years I would think Gohan being weaker has a little more to do with whether or not he is angry or not.

[dbzfan7]

Considering that Gohan hasn't trained for 7 years I would think Gohan being weaker has a little more to do with whether or not he is angry or not.

Really only his techniques could get rusty. I never heard of Freeza doing much training after he separated from his father. Nothing said he got weaker.

[Mjb1985]

Didn't Kami lose power from not keeping up with his training?

Also Ssj Kid Gohan > Ssj Teen Gohan is stated by Vegeta while the latter is fighting Dabura. Unless of course you think Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 at that point. Do you?

[dbgtFO]

I don't see how "about as strong as Cell" should be taken as actually meaning 'far weaker than Cell.'

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If he was referring to Cell before the power up, then he would have said so.

You are trying to use the lack of evidence to prove something.

It's a up to one's opinion. Like I can't prove that Goku was talking about Super Perfect Cell, you also can't prove that he was talking about Full-Power Perfect Cell, or someone else can't prove that he was talking about Second Form Cell. I was just saying why it makes more sense to me that Goku was talking about Super Perfect Cell.

It's like saying in Boo arc the Tenshinhan is about as strong as Goku.

I have no idea what you meant here.

Darn, I made a typo. I meant Kame Sennin instead of Tenshinhan. Roshi was equal to Goku at the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. Would it make sense if someone was comparing during Boo arc Roshi to a weaker state of Goku?

Goku never felt Super Perfect Cell's power.

Says who? Goku could sense Kaio from the Earth, the Namekians from the AfterLife, then Kaio from Namek, and Gohan & co. on Earth. That means that it's easier for someone to sense people from planets that exist to the Living World when he is in AfterLife. Which means that Goku felt Cell's power.


BTW, I believe that Gohan was Super Saiyan 2 in terms of power against Dabra, but Super Saiyan in terms of appearance, aka plot hole. Don't ask me why, don't try to prove me wrong, I will not reply because it has been discussed to death already.

[Mjb1985]

So DBGTFO you feel,

Ssj2 Kid Gohan >> Ssj2 Teen Gohan / Majin Dabura > SPC

?

[dbgtFO]

I would have preferred that yes, but it wasn't shown that way as has been made obvious several times on this message board.

[Mjb1985]

So I don't understand what you are saying here. What is the chain you feel is appropriate ?

[dbzfan7]

I feel Gohan only got rustier and didn't tap into his rage. Vegeta commented on Gohan being weaker which was because he was calm and not reaching into his potential like his SSJ2 kid self was.Vegeta said there is no telling what could happen if Gohan got enraged. Gohan was more powerful in SSJ2 because he brought out his rage. It has always boosted his power more then it usually is ever since he was a kid.


Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.1-4
Goku: “Gohan, it’s your turn next, but have you trained properly?”
Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…”