"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[JulieYBM]

I bet all the DBS haters who kept claiming that they are trying to erase Super like GT with Daima are real quiet right now !

Nobody 'erased' GT either. This fanbase has too many internal wars for it's own good.

I meant erased in terms of the fact that it’s not even important to even watch anymore, even though GT was always considered to not be canon because it wasn’t written by Toriyama and also featured movie villains which didn’t make sense in the anime continuity, with Super pretty much most new fans just completely ignore it nowadays except maybe watching some SSJ4 clips to see how it looks out of curiosity, before Super most people watched GT despite its negative reputation because well, it was the only major Dragon Ball media to watch after Z and the manga ended, now years later with Super and the new movies, manga and lately Daima, most people don’t give GT any attention !

Important to what? Like, who cares what is important to anything if you, personally, as an individual sitting down and giving hours of your life away to watch something, don't find it to personally be important to you?

[super michael]

The DBS Manga was always Toyotaro's work. The Moro arc in particular was pretty much written entirely by Toyotaro.

I don't understand why people think the DBS Manga will end without Toriyama.

I'm not surprised that Toyotaro is taking a long hiatus, and I find 3 main reasons for it:

1) Well-deserved rest because a mangaka's job is exhausting;

2) He needs to come up with a way to write the conflict with Black Freeza that is both logical (how can the Saiyans close the gap?) and original enough to not feel like a retread of RoF.

3) He wants to see what Daima is doing before continuing, and if he can adapt some storylines, characters, and lore drops from Daima in his manga.

I agree with you 100%. I also believe it is for the best that Toyotaro takes his time in making the new chapters.

Let say people demands Toyotaro to return as soon as possible and make new chapters, if Toyotaro does what the fans wants then most likely the quality of the manga will turn out bad. If it does turn out bad, then people will complain how bad it is.

Toyotaro can take all the time that he needs, I don't mind waiting.

[Magnificent Ponta]

So, not Huge news, but certainly Good news. The Super Hero Arc Prologue Chapters were a ton of fun, and it was clear Toyotarou loved writing them - they didn't overstay their welcome, either, so it's nice to get one more related piece to round out Volume 24 so it can go to publication in due course instead of those chapters hanging around in Limbo.

From that point, I guess it will be completely open as to whether Super proper will continue or not, but it seems like there's an implicit desire to let Daima keep the limelight for its full run, which is only proper. For what it's worth, Geekdom alleges that before Toriyama's passing, it was planned to have a new arc that would use some stuff from Daima - who can say whether that's the plan now? But either way, it makes sense for Daima to do its full run before any next steps, and it's neat to have something else to enjoy anyhow.

[Zinnia]

most people don’t give GT any attention !

Considering how the fanbase talks about it daily, I sincerely don't think that is the case. As are the officials who acknowledge GT in every new major DB media release (Daima trailer, Sparking Zero), and Toyotaro throwing easter eggs related to it in his DBS manga.

You're way blowing it out of proportion.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

So, not Huge news, but certainly Good news. The Super Hero Arc Prologue Chapters were a ton of fun, and it was clear Toyotarou loved writing them - they didn't overstay their welcome, either, so it's nice to get one more related piece to round out Volume 24 so it can go to publication in due course instead of those chapters hanging around in Limbo.

From that point, I guess it will be completely open as to whether Super proper will continue or not, but it seems like there's an implicit desire to let Daima keep the limelight for its full run, which is only proper. For what it's worth, Geekdom alleges that before Toriyama's passing, it was planned to have a new arc that would use some stuff from Daima - who can say whether that's the plan now? But either way, it makes sense for Daima to do its full run before any next steps, and it's neat to have something else to enjoy anyhow.

Where does this guy get his information from? Because he was right when he leaked Nadolny being recasted, (which I thought wouldn't happen) and why does he sound so snobby and annoying when he talks?

[Peach]

Is the manga returning?

I've been seeing a lot of articles highlighted on the home page of my browser at work and YouTube thumbnails saying that the manga is returning. But, it's hard for me to tell if it really is. There has been so much misinformation, fake news, and click bait from the Dragon Ball community over the years. I can't tell you how many times I've seen false news and fake announcements of the anime coming back over the years.

Can someone confirm if it's really true for me?

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Is the manga returning?

I've been seeing a lot of articles highlighted on the home page of my browser at work and YouTube thumbnails saying that the manga is returning. But, it's hard for me to tell if it really is. There has been so much misinformation, fake news, and click bait from the Dragon Ball community over the years. I can't tell you how many times I've seen false news and fake announcements of the anime coming back over the years.

Can someone confirm if it's really true for me?

It was revealed at this past Jump Festa that there will be a special Dragon Ball Super chapter to be released in February focusing on Trunks and Goten.

[The Monkey King]

2022: DBS Super Hero movie
2023: DBS Super Hero Manga Prequel arc
2023/4: DBS Super Hero Manga retelling
2025: DBS Super Hero Manga Prequel-Prequel one-shot

Jesus fucking Christ, will Dragon Ball Super ever escape this Super Hero purgatory? I'm so sick of it!

[Cipher]

Unfortunately my first thought upon hearing one-shot was also "Is this is just to round out Volume 24 and end the series?"

If so, it ends in a decent place given the circumstances. I guess we'll see! Wonder what Toyotaro's plans are in that case.

[Mr Baggins]

2022: DBS Super Hero movie
2023: DBS Super Hero Manga Prequel arc
2023/4: DBS Super Hero Manga retelling
2025: DBS Super Hero Manga Prequel-Prequel one-shot

Jesus fucking Christ, will Dragon Ball Super ever escape this Super Hero purgatory? I'm so sick of it!

Yeah, how dare they try to round out a volume about Super Hero with a bonus chapter related to Super Hero???

[Vegard Aune]

2022: DBS Super Hero movie
2023: DBS Super Hero Manga Prequel arc
2023/4: DBS Super Hero Manga retelling
2025: DBS Super Hero Manga Prequel-Prequel one-shot

Jesus fucking Christ, will Dragon Ball Super ever escape this Super Hero purgatory? I'm so sick of it!

Yeah, how dare they try to round out a volume about Super Hero with a bonus chapter related to Super Hero???

To be fair, this is actually out of character for the manga, where every other arc started in the middle of a volume. Universe 6? Midway through volume 1. Future Trunks? Midway through volume 2. Universe Survival? Midway through volume 5. Moro? Midway through volume 9. Granollah? Midway through volume 15, Super Hero? Midway through volume 20. Heck, Moro and Granollah started mid-chapter, even. So if volume 24 isn't just the end of DBS all together, volume 25 would be the first time a new volume actually gives us a clean break.

[JulieYBM]

The clean break would make it easier to separate which the two eras, thiugh, so I can see that being the logic behind it.

I think Pokemon Special did the same when it switched artists and Berserk did, too.

[Mr Baggins]

If you're looking at the manga divorced from the circumstances of Toriyama's death, then yes, this isn't conventional.

But we're talking about chapters that have been on hold in volume format for nearly a year now because of said circumstances. If Shueisha is approaching it from the angle of "we need to get volume 24 on shelves, and this is the only way to do it right now", I'd say an extra story about Goten and Trunks is an appropriate way as any to bookend it.

[Vegard Aune]

I think Pokemon Special did the same when it switched artists

Kinda, though the circumstances there were weird. The artist switch coincided with the start of volume 10, and volume 10 did present itself as the start of a new arc... But volume 9 ended on a cliffhanger where the villain completely wiped the floor with Gold and Silver. That the series then kinda just left hanging for two volumes until our new protagonist Crystal happened to end up in the same place that our previous protagonist Gold had ended up after the cliffhanger in volume 9. I have to imagine that must have been frustrating for new readers at the time.

[JulieYBM]

I think Pokemon Special did the same when it switched artists

Kinda, though the circumstances there were weird. The artist switch coincided with the start of volume 10, and volume 10 did present itself as the start of a new arc... But volume 9 ended on a cliffhanger where the villain completely wiped the floor with Gold and Silver. That the series then kinda just left hanging for two volumes until our new protagonist Crystal happened to end up in the same place that our previous protagonist Gold had ended up after the cliffhanger in volume 9. I have to imagine that must have been frustrating for new readers at the time.

Aah, yeah, that would be awkward.

I have no idea how Yamamoto Satoshi drew as much as he did. Pokemon Special seems kind of insane?

[Koitsukai]

If Daima is 20 episodes long, then it would be ending around the time this new mini-arc starts, letting each story breath without any overlapping.
Also, that Black Freeza illustration -when he could've just drawn something from Daima- means to me there is something else for us after that mini-arc is over.

[The Monkey King]

Yeah, how dare they try to round out a volume about Super Hero with a bonus chapter related to Super Hero???

The DBS manga retelling a movie we already saw was one of the worst creative decisions in the history of the franchise.

There shouldn't be any Super Hero shit to "round out" because it never should have existed in the first place. By all means it should've had a recap chapter at most if they wanted to tie it together with Goten and Trunks being heroes.

Not to mention the concept of the one-shot simply sounds shit, with Toyotarou at the helm it's likely to be mediocre at best if that boring Super Hero prequel story is anything to go by.

Toriyama's original script for DBS Broly was 3 hours long and included a fight between Kid Raditz and the other saiyans that had to be cut from the theatrical release. This is where a longer manga adaptation of Toriyama's script could've come in handy.

[Mr Baggins]

The DBS manga retelling a movie we already saw was one of the worst creative decisions in the history of the franchise.

There shouldn't be any Super Hero shit to "round out" because it never should have existed in the first place. By all means it should've had a recap chapter at most if they wanted to tie it together with Goten and Trunks being heroes.

Agreed.

I liked the adaptation for what it was, but the decision to make it to begin with was a baffling choice. Doing so was also inconsistent with how the manga had treated the films up until that point.

Alas, these are the cards we were dealt. If a one-shot is what it takes to finish up a volume that's been in limbo for a year, and if Toyotaro enjoys writing content like this, it makes sense to relate the subject matter of said material to what's being released.

Not to mention the concept of the one-shot simply sounds shit, with Toyotarou at the helm it's likely to be mediocre at best if that boring Super Hero prequel story is anything to go by.

Disagreed.

At the time, the Super Hero prequel was the best material the manga put out in years. I have no objection to getting more of it, though I'll be the first to say I'm only cautiously optimistic considering that it's just Toyotaro at the helm now.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Something I could never quite figure out is how does the manga go about deciding what gets adapted and what doesn't? Battle of Gods got adapted, but Resurrection F was skipped because it got a separate tie-in manga, but Super Broly was skipped for unexplained reasons with a simple splash page referencing it, then Superhero gets a full extended manga adaptation that's, from what I can tell, longer than all the others.

This is little more than a guess, but if you'll indulge my speculation, I think that with respect to the Super manga its changing status as one platform in a loose cross-promotional strategy (particularly when it was principally a promotional tie-in for the Super anime) is probably relevant (and in some ways probably enhances the point of your question):

• Chapter 1 was published on 20 June 2015, before Episode 1 aired on 5 July 2015, so it served at that point in its run to simply promote the fact of a new Dragon Ball anime series - and therefore necessarily had to have the same starting story as the series, both for promotional and basic story context purposes (like, imagine trying to make any sense of Super if you totally missed Battle of Gods and it doesn't get told in some way, right?);
• Chapter 5 was published on 21 October 2015, which basically set up and 'advertised' the Champa arc; starting this early meant Chapter 8 (the chapter with the beginning of the actual tournament) was published on 21 January 2016, only a few days before Episode 28, the first anime episode of the arc, aired on 24 January 2016. Skipping a redundant movie arc (for a movie that had only been released a few months before Super began, was getting a second airing in the anime itself for anyone who had missed it, and which had already had a separate manga promotion early in 2015 anyway) makes sense when you consider the manga's role as a promo platform for the anime - it was previewing new content that the anime would take over and soon lead on, rather than being completist about basically redundant material;
• For Broly, the manga had already shifted roles by that point and had become more a platform unto itself (getting a bigger page count and telling the basic plots of Super in its own way), but the fact that Chapter 42, wrapping up the Tournament of Power arc, was published on 21 November 2018 (i.e., the last possible publication before Broly's release on 14 December 2018) seems like a telling bit of co-ordination by drawing a line under all the main anime-related run, just in time for new stories - incidentally, it also enabled Toyotarou to do some cross-promotional art (the main Broly-related panel that actually appears in Chapter 42 had already been published as a poster in Saikyo Jump). Arguably the manga could have promoted the movie in a more thoroughgoing way, but to have told the whole story completely and coherently would have taken several months; arguably letting the movie just release and generate its own hype and simultaneously having an extra storytelling product telling another new Dragon Ball story (rather than the same one) is a better sell, both for the hardcore fanbase and for onboarding people who may have been generally interested but were not really closely following the manga adaptation of Super.

Really, the decision to adapt Super Hero, rather than not adapt Revival of F or Broly, seems the odd one out. Unlike Battle of Gods, you don't strictly need to retell Super Hero to "tie in" to or promote any other product, or to understand the basic premises of the wider story. It's more speculation, I'm afraid, but the only thing I can think is that there was sufficient enthusiasm on the creative and editorial side for the story at the time (quicker and easier to plan and expand than something totally new - maybe more so if Toriyama was showing signs of poor health? - plus a neat enough way to tie in Toyotarou's own smaller independent pitch for a Trunks-related story, plus just...liking the story a lot, I guess?), with no other immediately relevant projects to interact with or plan around.

Really, if there isn't going to be anything legitimately new coming from the Super Manga in future, I'd personally quite like a 'perfect' release incorporating a full adaptation of the skipped stories, in the fullness of time. While skipping them may have made good sense at the time, it doesn't necessarily follow that things should stay that way.

Where does this guy get his information from? Because he was right when he leaked Nadolny being recasted, (which I thought wouldn't happen) and why does he sound so snobby and annoying when he talks?

Well, he's been right about quite a few Daima things generally (he also leaked the character designs for Marbah, Kuu and Duu well before they were seen in the series), so he clearly has some connections. With regard to manner, the general tone of internet communication is often quite agonistic, and in the case of people who are sharing insider info this is exacerbated (a) by the fact they're putting it out there at all (i.e., 'spoiling' unreleased detail) to build a (sometimes monetised) personal brand, and (b) by occasional (sometimes spectacular) past 'misses' (a lot of people got burned by the whole 2019 'Dragon Ball Super Returns!' saga) undermining their credibility in the eyes of some. So the discussion gets hit from both ends, with accusations of grifting on the one hand and fraud on the other.

In any case, Toriyama's passing has no doubt changed a lot of assumptions about how the franchise is going to be taken forward, so who knows whether what might have been planned more than a year ago is still relevant now? I guess the weeks around the publication of the one-shot in February are going to be interesting times for people with industry contacts. Speculation (and misinformation) about what's next is already pretty rife.

[Vegard Aune]

Really, if there isn't going to be anything legitimately new coming from the Super Manga in future, I'd personally quite like a 'perfect' release incorporating a full adaptation of the skipped stories, in the fullness of time. While skipping them may have made good sense at the time, it doesn't necessarily follow that things should stay that way.

If that were to happen, I would also hope Toyotaro would take the opportunity to expand and properly show the sections that are just told via narration. Both Universe 6 and Universe Survival just jump to a quick narrated summary of the denouement as soon as the action is over, and Battle of Gods also skips large chunks of the plot to go straight from Goku returning to Earth, to Goku transforming into a Super Saiyan God. So like... an extra 10-20 pages for BoG perhaps, an adaptation of Resurrection F which could potentially use the old incomplete promo manga Toyo did as a basis and just adds another chapter or two to actually conclude that plotline, a few more pages for the endings to the tournaments, and an actual adaptation of Broly rather than just a "And then this happened but we don't have time to go into it right now" single page.

...Realistically I doubt any of that will happen, but it would be nice just from the perspective of me wanting the manga to stand on its own. Which is also why I stand by the Super Hero arc as being a good thing. Yeah, it's inconsistent with how they handled the other movies... But my stance is that all the movies should ideally have been adapted so, better late than never, I say. It also means that if the series does continue and we see Gohan Beast and Orange Piccolo again, the manga won't need to take a several page tangent to explain where these transformations came from the way it did when Broly showed up in the SH arc.