Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Why do you guys believe that the Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza? Just because of a little comment from Beerus, which can be interpreted in many different ways?

Despite being considered preposterous in a lot of power level-based communities, it's always been a viable and somewhat popular belief. The solid line from Beerus just gave it some more backing and weight.

Yes, I'm not saying it's completely out of the window. It's just that the other way around is backed up with more info and is a more viable option, considering the ridiculous power-ups we've got.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Fans can come up with whatever interpretations they want, but Toriyama is a pretty simple guy and it seems like he tries to be as straightforward as possible so that things are very easy for everyone to understand (though he sometimes contradicts himself, which causes unintended confusion). So to me, if Toriyama wasn't intending for Goku to still be weaker than Freeza in base, he probably wouldn't have written it into the script...at least not in the way he did.

I'm one of the people who rolled with the idea before Beerus ever made the comment though, so I didn't have any issues when he said it.

[DragonBallFan8001]

Regarding SSJG, I think that SSJ just become Goku's SSJG form, and if he transforms into SSJ2 or 3, he loses all of his power. Similar to Gohan.

I agree that Goku's Super Saiyan form became equal to his Super Saiyan God form, after absorbing the form, but I think that Super Saiyan 2 and 3, after absorbing the Super Saiyan God form are still stronger than Super Saiyan 1. However, due to absorbing the Super Saiyan God form, the power boosts from each form to the next became a lot smaller, somehow, causing the Super Saiyan 2 and 3 forms' energy costs to make fighting in the regular Super Saiyan form simply more efficient.

[ZombieVito]

What are your opinion guys on Kaioshin and the Boys (Super Saiyan of course)? Who is stronger?

[KentalSSJ6]

What are your opinion guys on Kaioshin and the Boys (Super Saiyan of course)? Who is stronger?

Seeing as the boys arent far off from their dads and Goku and Vegeta time and time again shocked, surprised, and even terrified Kaioshin with their power, id say the boys are stronger, but Kaioshin MIGHT be able to win if he can use his magic and he fights them one on one.

[DragonBallFan8001]

What are your opinion guys on Kaioshin and the Boys (Super Saiyan of course)? Who is stronger?

Kid Trunks:
-Base form: 180,000.
-Super Saiyan: 5,400,000.

Kid Goten:
-Base form: 179,000.
-Super Saiyan: 5,350,000.

Kaioshin: 550,000.

Kibito: 450,000.

Kibitoshin: 1,000,000,000. ((Kaioshin + Kibito) × 1000)

(I know Kaioshin and Kibito's power levels might seem low, but even after the Potara fusion, they wouldn't be any help in the fight against Boo.)

[Kaboom]

What are your opinion guys on Kaioshin and the Boys (Super Saiyan of course)? Who is stronger?

My personal strength placement for the boys tends to bounce back and forth a lot, since it ultimately doesn't affect anything but my own powar levul lists. But for the time being, I have them in the same ballpark as Piccolo, so they'd likewise be somewhat inferior to Kaioshin.

SSJ Goten -- 1,400,000,000
SSJ Trunks -- 1,600,000,000
Piccolo -- 1,600,000,000
Kaioshin -- 2,200,000,000

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I'm an odd man out in this situation. I accept the JSAT special, so the Super Saiyan boys are still only around Freeza's level to me.

Piccolo was still pretty close to the Super Saiyans at the Cell Games and still remains there even after everyone training for 7 years, IMO.

Kaioshin is is well aware the Super Saiyans surpass him. Whether or not Piccolo does is another story. Maybe I'll just assume they're close to even and take on the Piccolo respecting a higher god defense, even though it's not entirely solid.

[RandomGuy96]

The SS kids weren't much weaker than their fathers. I don't think that the story really supports Kaioshin being able to give the same amount of trouble to SS Vegeta that SS Trunks gave him, but maybe I'm underselling him a bit. I'll just go for the middle approach and say he's equal to them individually, and could beat either in a fight, but would probably lose against a team-up.

[Doctor.]

My powerlevel list for part 1 Dragon Ball.

Pilaf/Kame training arc arc:

Spoiler:

Goku: 10
Goku (hungry): 8,5
Goku (Oozaru): 100

Kuririn: 9

Yamcha: 9

Kame-sennin: 24

Gyuumao: 15
Chi-Chi: 4,5 (her tools help her in battle)

Pilaf: 3
Mai/Shu: 5,5

21st Budokai Tenkaichi arc:

Spoiler:

Goku: 24
Goku (Oozaru): 240 (might be lower since he was already very tired)

Jackie Chun: 24
Jackie Chun (buff): 40

Nam: 20

Kuririn: 20

Yamcha: 10

Giran: 13
Ranfan: 6,5
Bacterian: 6

Red Ribbon Army/Baba arc:

Spoiler:

Goku: 25
Goku (post Karin training): 70

Tao Pai Pai: 58

Red: 5
Yellow: 6
Silver: 8
White: 8
Murasaki: 8
Black: 9
Metallic: 21
Buyon: 26
Blue: 24

Artificial Human #8: 40

Kuririn: 20

Bora: 9

Karin: 81

Son Gohan: 62
Akkuman: 27
Myra: 24

22nd Budokai Tenkaichi arc:

Spoiler:

Goku: 80

Tenshinhan: 78
Chaozu: 50
Tsuru-sennin: 72

Kuririn: 67
Yamcha: 63

Jackie Chun: 77

Panputto: 22

Chapa: 49

Piccolo Daimao arc:

Spoiler:

Goku (hungry): 50
Goku: 80
Goku (post-training): 215

Tambourine: 73
Cymbal: 68
Drum: 125

Old Piccolo Daimao (suppressed): 86
Old Piccolo Daimao (full power): 175
Piccolo Daimao (suppressed): 180
Piccolo Daimao (full power): 214

Mr. Popo: 265
Kami: 315

23rd Budokai Tenkaichi arc:

Spoiler:

Goku (weights): 230
Goku: 380

Piccolo Jr (suppressed): 250
Piccolo Jr: 379

Kami: 315
Shen: 300

Tenshinhan: 231
Yamcha: 162
Kuririn: 192
Chaozu: 115
Kame-sennin: 133

Chi-Chi: 70
Chapa: 60

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai: 170

Thoughts? My numbers might seem a bit low at the beginning arcs, but they make sense.

[Kaboom]

Not bad. Pre-Raditz power levels are always a mixed bag, because fights back then were not only full of a lot of hyperbole and goofiness, but they also weren't near-entirely driven by raw battle power yet. Things like skill, physical speed and strength, and special abilities played into things a lot more, and ki attacks were a secondary aspect. It wasn't until the 22nd Budokai and King Piccolo era that the use of them started to become a more regular and mundane thing.

[ZombieVito]

Why do you have a different power level for Shen? Is Kami weaker when he possesses someone?

And damn Kaioshin and the kids are really hard to place for me, I currently have this in the Buu saga:

SSJ Gohan: 3,000,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 2,600,000,000
SSJ Goten: 2,500,000,000
Kaioshin: 2,400,000,000
Piccolo: 1,800,000,000

I could make Kaoshin weaker but I really have no clue what should the gap be between him and Piccolo. Goku was forced to risk is life to beat Vegeta (Using KKx3) with a mere x1.12 gap. I guess I could make him 2,200,000,000

[Doctor.]

Why do you have a different power level for Shen? Is Kami weaker when he possesses someone?

I recall him saying something along the lines of "The body I borrowed is too weak!"

Shouldn't Piccolo be stronger than the kids, since Buu took his appearance?

[ZombieVito]

Why do you have a different power level for Shen? Is Kami weaker when he possesses someone?

I recall him saying something along the lines of "The body I borrowed is too weak!"

Shouldn't Piccolo be stronger than the kids, since Buu took his appearance?

Ah, I remember. Well I always thought he was referring about how little durability the body had. He was a normal man after all with zero training.

And well the kids where in base inside Buu.

[DragonBallFan8001]

My powerlevel list for part 1 Dragon Ball.

Pilaf/Kame training arc arc:
Goku: 10
Goku (hungry): 8,5
Goku (Oozaru): 100

Kuririn: 9

Yamcha: 9

Kame-sennin: 24

Gyuumao: 15
Chi-Chi: 4,5 (her tools help her in battle)

Pilaf: 3
Mai/Shu: 5,5

I think Goku's power level at the start of Dragon Ball should be a lot higher. He was able to deflect bullets and lift cars, after all. I think it would make more sense for Goku's power level at the start of Dragon Ball to be around 50. Yamcha would probably have a power level around 40 when he first appeared, and Krillin would probably have a power level of around 30 when he first appeared.

By the way, what does everyone think the fusion dance and the potara fusion's power increases are?
I think the character created through fusion's power level is (Character A + Character B) × 1000. I don't remember where I read this calculation, but this calculation makes sense to me.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Objection! Ha. There's no need for them to be anywhere near that high. Battle Powers an expression of ki. Practically none of the characters early on in the series have a lot of ki, let alone know how to control it.

[Rocketman]

What are your opinion guys on Kaioshin and the Boys (Super Saiyan of course)? Who is stronger?

Supreme Kai is stronger than Piccolo is stronger than the Brats.

[ZombieVito]

Objection! Ha. There's no need for them to be anywhere near that high. Battle Powers an expression of ki. Practically none of the characters early on in the series have a lot of ki, let alone know how to control it.

Ditto and Goku is a saiyan, more durable than a human.

@Rocketman But Piccolo nearly crapped his pants when the kids powered up.

[Saiga]

What are your opinion guys on Kaioshin and the Boys (Super Saiyan of course)? Who is stronger?

I'm really not sure. I previously had the boys stronger but felt that gap I had between Piccolo and Kaioshin might not be big enough, so after extending it I have Kaioshin a bit stronger than the boys. My gap between the boys and the adult Saiyans might be too wide though (Vegeta being ~2x stronger than Trunks).

[Rocketman]

@Rocketman But Piccolo nearly crapped his pants when the kids powered up.

When Gotenks splits up, Buu takes on Piccolo's appearance.