Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[lash]

Post it, so we can see.

Sure thing. I'll post sometime soon.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Lying, misinformed, mistaken, bluffing, etc... Take your pick.

How would Coola be lying or bluffing?

[Fox666]

Lying, misinformed, mistaken, bluffing, etc... Take your pick.

How would Coola be lying or bluffing?

I think Kaboon was being ironic answering p123 post.

[dbgtFO]

(Which would probably also mean Piccolo wasn't anywhere near his million-plus full power while he schooled Coola's Armored Squad)

Piccolo can unleash his full power in bursts, as Goku did vs. the Ginyu Force, so he could be read as having a power level of 9001, while his true power wouldn't be detected by the scouters.

If Goku did get a healing boost, it'd be small and hardly noticeable. Certainly not even worth mentioning in the film, which it wasn't.

Agreed.

[Fox666]

Gohan seems very confident that his dad can take on Yakon in base prior to being on the dark planet.

When Kaioshin is worried, Gohan says something to the effect of, "don't worry, Dad can handle it." A minute or so later, Yakon does something which seems to render Super Saiyan useless for Goku. Once that happens, Gohan actually offers to jump in and help Goku.

This might suggest that Gohan's confidence in Goku stems from knowing he's got Super Saiyan up his sleeve. Take away that advantage, however, and he might be in trouble. However, I don't believe he could be THAT much stronger than Goku, if Gohan thought that working together, without Super Saiyan, would be any good.

So if Yakon's stronger than base Goku, it's probably not drastically so.

Well, if you keep in mind that Goku can use a Kaioken of 10x, it's possible to take the 60-800 difference as plausible.

Since the last time Toriyama worked with battle powers involved Kaioken and transformation multipliers, I imagine he would not had forget Goku could use that.

[uzuni]

Gohan seems very confident that his dad can take on Yakon in base prior to being on the dark planet.

When Kaioshin is worried, Gohan says something to the effect of, "don't worry, Dad can handle it." A minute or so later, Yakon does something which seems to render Super Saiyan useless for Goku. Once that happens, Gohan actually offers to jump in and help Goku.

This might suggest that Gohan's confidence in Goku stems from knowing he's got Super Saiyan up his sleeve. Take away that advantage, however, and he might be in trouble. However, I don't believe he could be THAT much stronger than Goku, if Gohan thought that working together, without Super Saiyan, would be any good.

So if Yakon's stronger than base Goku, it's probably not drastically so.

Well, if you keep in mind that Goku can use a Kaioken of 10x, it's possible to take the 60-800 difference as plausible.

Since the last time Toriyama worked with battle powers involved Kaioken and transformation multipliers, I imagine he would not had forget Goku could use that.

I could definitely understand that.

[p123]

So Goku is using Kaioken now against Yakon? Lol, so why does Base Gohan think he can help out against Yakon?

[Kaboom]

Kaio-Ken may as well not have even existed anymore once the Boo arc rolled around.

[p123]

Are you a fan of the Kaioken retconned out theory as well? I think it actually holds weight, it just seems odd for a technique so valuable to never be mentioned at all again.

How do you feel about Tien's

So this is a Super Saiyan quote... Seems awfully odd as well...

[Kaboom]

Well, for Goku Kaio-Ken isn't useful anymore. Becoming a Super Saiyan rendered the power it gained moot in comparison. Mastering Super Saiyan allowed for total control over how much power he can use, meaning that the transformation now replaced even the smaller boosts that Kaio-Ken could offer. So the technique is pointless for any Super Saiyans. Only the humans might get some use out of it, if they could use it at all.

How do you feel about Tenshinhan's "So this is a Super Saiyan quote..." Seems awfully odd as well...

Toriyama: "Whoops! Forgot Tenshinhan was there before!"

[Fox666]

Kaio-Ken may as well not have even existed anymore once the Boo arc rolled around.

That's because it was out-classed by transformations.

However, if Toriyama looked at his notes about battle powers when he came up with the Kiri values (800 and 3,000), I am sure he would have looked over the Kaioken.

[p123]

Agreed, I don't think AT is looking at SSJ as a 40x or 40x+ boost anymore by the Buu Saga. Which would indirectly effect the SSJ boost for the MSSJ at the Cell Games.

If Base Teen Gohan is uber strong, logically Base Kid Gohan would probably be stronger, which would also rope in MSSJ Goku's Base strength as well.

How are you guys feeling about SSJ being a 40x boost against Freeza?

[Kaboom]

How are you guys feeling about SSJ being a 40x boost against Freeza?

It's wrong, has already been laid out as a 50x boost, and is not up to us to decide otherwise...?

[p123]

From the guides right? But still many do not believe in flat boosts, many think that there are varying boosts, which is never implied by the SEG 50/2/4 numbers.

Isn't it odd Kaboom that a greatly damaged Goku uses KKx20 and appears to be on par with 50% Freeza, then SSJ Goku, who's ki was restored fights evenly for the most part with 100% Freeza? Shouldn't that hold more weight, what was shown in the manga, then any guide, even if AT said so himself?

Also, on the varying boost POV, it appears that if there is one, Vegeta implies his SSJ boost would be higher than Goku's and seeing how Vegeta > Goku in the androids saga, there wouldn't be much to hold back that POV. I'm sure the varying boost guys never wanted that though...

[Kaboom]

Isn't it odd Kaboom that a greatly damaged Goku uses KKx20 and appears to be on par with 50% Freeza, then SSJ Goku, who's ki was restored fights evenly for the most part with 100% Freeza? Shouldn't that hold more weight, what was shown in the manga, then any guide, even if AT said so himself?

No, because it wasn't an "even fight." It was, "Goku was stronger, but Freeza could put up a fight." 150/120 million holds to that just fine, and there is no such strict ratio save for that in the mind of over-analytical fans to say it doesn't. Other factors like their injuries and fatigue, or individual physical strengths and weaknesses, can play into that as well.

[p123]

I see what you mean..Freeza puts up a fight, but is not exactly equal is what your saying. What about Freeza stating he lost power after the barrier.


120/150 might be true post barrier, but certainly not pre barrier. One would think that Freeza at his maximum before losing power, would be on par with Goku.

[Kaboom]

120/150 might be true post barrier, but certainly not pre barrier.

Says who?

[p123]

Says Freeza I would think... Freeza states he lost power, then goes on to fight nearly evenly with SSJ Goku. One would think that if Freeza hadn't lost power, his fight with SSJ Goku would have been even closer, if not perhaps Freeza would have won.

[Rocketman]

Goku wasn't being serious. Even after fighting with Freeza, donating Freeza energy and then releasing that huge blast to kill him, he wasn't anywhere near running out of juice. Was he even breathing hard?

[p123]

He sure as hell was after being hit by that barrier. Which was Freeza's full power before he lost power of course...