How strong was Dabura?

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:12 pm

Does the Daiz statement say the strongest Maikaioshin is always weaker than the weakest Kaioshin?

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:13 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Does the Daiz statement say the strongest Maikaioshin is always weaker than the weakest Kaioshin?

I think it's just a generic "Kaioshins>Makioshins" statement.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:14 pm

Then there's no reason that the strongest Makaioshin can't be stronger than the weakest Kaioshin.

TheMightyOzaru · Post by **TheMightyOzaru** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:18 pm

Yup. I still think Dabura started weaker than East Kaioshin though. I'd say he's 1,400,000,000-1,800,000,000 before being possessed.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:10 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Then there's no reason that the strongest Makaioshin can't be stronger than the weakest Kaioshin.

No, it was stated that currently, the Makaioshin are inferior to the Kaioshin.

Draken · Post by **Draken** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:11 pm

I've provided many examples within the art that shows the differences between a SSJ and a SSJ2. It's willful ignorance to claim that sparks and a sharper aura are not staples of this form. These aren't assumptions, these are clear as day examples within the artwork. Here let me show you:

I can't tell if you're joking or just really confused. I was talking about people saying it's SSJ2 without sparks.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:12 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:He's relaxed so his hair is more relaxed. his rested/relaxed/suppressed state, whatever want to call it, has 2 strands where as FPSSJ has 1 because it's, well, full power.

No, Goku & Gohan during the Cell Games never had a hairstyle change, not to mention that both resting & fighting states are part of the same transformation (Super Saiyan Full Power).

TheMightyOzaru · Post by **TheMightyOzaru** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:12 pm

Draken wrote:
I've provided many examples within the art that shows the differences between a SSJ and a SSJ2. It's willful ignorance to claim that sparks and a sharper aura are not staples of this form. These aren't assumptions, these are clear as day examples within the artwork. Here let me show you:
I can't tell if you're joking or just really confused. I was talking about people saying it's SSJ2 without sparks.

Oooooooooooh.

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:He's relaxed so his hair is more relaxed. his rested/relaxed/suppressed state, whatever want to call it, has 2 strands where as FPSSJ has 1 because it's, well, full power.
No, Goku & Gohan during the Cell Games never had a hairstyle change, not to mention that both resting & fighting states are part of the same transformation (Super Saiyan Full Power).

, why would Gohan's or Goku's hair be different at the Cell games? They don't have a singular two small bangs.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:17 pm

Dabura is only tougher because of his magical abilities. He's a joke to Buu Saga Super Saiyans except for the woefully weak Gohan who hasn't done anything for 7 long years.

Vegeta is surprised that Goku has Ssj2 and Goku was surprised that Vegeta had Ssj2.

Gohan speaks about Goku and Vegeta fighting at a level beyond Ssj in a way that doesn't suggest he and Dabura are fighting on that level.

I think only Vegeta, Yamu and Spopovich were brought beyond their limits. I think Pocus, Yakon and Dabura were just possessed.

Fionordequester · Post by **Fionordequester** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:23 pm

Alright fine, I'm popping back in here just to make sure I understood something (if someone PMs me, I want to keep track of the latest argument). Are the pro-SSJ1 Gohan guys saying that Supreme Kai was stronger than Dabura?

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:25 pm

Fionordequester wrote:Alright fine, I'm popping back in here just to make sure I understood something (if someone PMs me, I want to keep track of the latest argument). Are the pro-SSJ1 Gohan guys saying that Supreme Kai was stronger than Dabura?

I was saying that it was possible before his possession, assuming he's a Makaioshin. If's he's not, then no.
Can't speak for anyone else though.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:27 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote: , why would Gohan's or Goku's hair be different at the Cell games? They don't have a singular two small bangs.

Their hairstyle never changed, so there is no reason to assume that the resting state has different hair. Besides, even Gohan's base hairstyle appears to have changed between the High School & 25th TB arcs, since a month passed, so it seems that this affected his SS hairstyle as well. But even then, SS Gohan's hairstyle during the Babidi arc is different compared to his SS hairstyle in 25th TB arc (his forehead bang looks more like the one SS2 Gohan had).

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:31 pm

I don't think East Kaioshin was ever stronger than Dabura. I don't think Badibi brought Dabura past his limits.

TheMightyOzaru · Post by **TheMightyOzaru** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:56 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote: , why would Gohan's or Goku's hair be different at the Cell games? They don't have a singular two small bangs.
Their hairstyle never changed, so there is no reason to assume that the resting state has different hair.

Except there is because Gohan's single bang has a lazy strand. Goku's and Gohan's hair don't have a lazy single strand of hair during Cell games. A suppressed state would naturally keep that laid back look.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:58 pm

Mjb1985 wrote:I don't think East Kaioshin was ever stronger than Dabura. I don't think Badibi brought Dabura past his limits.

Yeah, I don't either at this point. Unless Dabura is later said to be a Makaioshin.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:09 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote: , why would Gohan's or Goku's hair be different at the Cell games? They don't have a singular two small bangs.
Their hairstyle never changed, so there is no reason to assume that the resting state has different hair.
Except there is because Gohan's single bang has a lazy strand. Goku's and Gohan's hair don't have a lazy single strand of hair during Cell games. A suppressed state would naturally keep that laid back look.

Well, I disagree. We see 3 different SSFP hairstyles, and only one changes? I don't think so.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:35 pm

Kaioshin was scared of Dabura long before he was a Majin.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:41 pm

Mjb1985 wrote:Kaioshin was scared of Dabura long before he was a Majin.

Not necessarily. If Dabura was almost as strong as Kaioshin, then any power up, like the one that Kaioshin saw that Babidi gave the Earthlings, would give him the edge. Again, this is only necessary if he's a Makaioshin.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:42 pm

I was always under the impression that Dabura was just a normal mortal. Just an exceptionally strong one who got stronger than the gods, like Goku.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:44 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:I was always under the impression that Dabura was just a normal mortal. Just an exceptionally strong one who got stronger than the gods, like Goku.

That's what I think too. I'm just open to the possibility that he may be a Makaioshin, just in case Toryama or a later guidebook ever say that he is.

Kanzenshuu

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