Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:46 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I'm really not seeing a difference here.
In the manga, no matter how Goku tries, he would never turn into a Golden Oozaru & then into a Super Saiyan 4. These forms just doesn't exist in the manga world, just like Saiyans don't exist in our real world.
In the anime, Broli never transformed into a Super Saiyan 3, but if he had the chance, he would be able to transform.

My point is, the manga takes place in a similar, but different world than that of the anime, while the movies & video games take place in alternative timelines of the anime.
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:I think you're over-analyzing it. Vegetto is clearly Goku X Vegeta. Yes, X can mean cross, but it can also mean multiply (in both Eastern and Western context). With the statement how the Potara is closer to multiplication, along with the graphical example, we can reasonably take for granted that Vegetto is Goku x Vegeta.

Your latter statement is a valid assumption, but it's only relevant to non-Vegetto Potara fusions, in my opinion.
The equitation says nothing about battle powers, it only talks about Goku & Vegeta. In another guidebook, Gotenks is said to be many times stronger than Goten or Trunks individually, and then there is a similar equitation saying "Goten + Trunks = Gotenks". Obviously, it isn't supposed to show a formula.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:It's been brought up dozens of times already. The page doesn't mention anything about the other Potara fusions beyond what that blurb mentions, just that Potara fusion is closer to multiplication rather than simple addition and that Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto.

Neither of those things really have to mean what some people interpret them to mean though. Vegetti may not be Goku multiplied by Vegeta, as "X" is commonly used to represent the word "cross". The whole "formula" that some fans take so literally may mean nothing more than "Vegetto is Goku combined with Vegeta", which we obviously already knew. The line about how Potara fusion is closer to multiplication rather than simple addition also doesn't have to mean anything beyond the idea that the resulting fusion is greater than the sum of it's parts, which we're told in the series proper.
I blame Kanzenshuu for this misinformation. I've pointed out so many times that they are wrong to reach the conclusion and have their personal conclusion in the site as if it's a fact, but I keep getting ignored. At least it's probably the only bad thing in the site, but still.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:08 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I'm really not seeing a difference here.
In the manga, no matter how Goku tries, he would never turn into a Golden Oozaru & then into a Super Saiyan 4. These forms just doesn't exist in the manga world, just like Saiyans don't exist in our real world.
In the anime, Broli never transformed into a Super Saiyan 3, but if he had the chance, he would be able to transform.

My point is, the manga takes place in a similar, but different world than that of the anime, while the movies & video games take place in alternative timelines of the anime.
If Toriyama wanted to, he could throw in SSJ4 and Golden Oozaru, and it wouldn't contradict anything. So again, I'm seeing no difference here.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:21 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:If Toriyama wanted to, he could throw in SSJ4 and Golden Oozaru, and it wouldn't contradict anything. So again, I'm seeing no difference here.
But it never happened so far. The manga & anime/movie/video games are different worlds with different rules.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Ultimate_Nova_X » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:14 pm

Does nobody have a scan for that page? I really want to see it myself.
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Mattias_
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Mattias_ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:08 pm

DRAGON BALL: THE OFFICIAL UNOFFICIAL SENTO RYOKU

01 - THE BEGGINING:

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 10 (+)
Bulma ブルマ: 3
Umigame ウミガメ: 0,001 (*)

+'The evolution of Son Goku's power level', Daizenshuu 7, based in Toriyama's interview from Weekly Jump #31, 1991. Feb 25, 1997.
*This power level is unnoficial. Only in the anime.

Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 85
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 8

Gyumao 牛魔王: 20
Chi Chi チチ: 5
Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 140 (100% Power)
Kamehameha 足からかめはめ波: 180 [Kame'Sen' Nin]

Emperador Pilaf ピラフ: 2
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 100 (Ozharu)(*)

*'10 x regular Saiyan level' confirmed by Vegeta. #233, vol. XX.

02 - RED RIBBON ARMY:

Kuririn クリリン: 22

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 50
Kuririn クリリン: 40
Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 129
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 38
Giran ギラン: 40
Namu ナム: 42

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 30
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 300 (Ozharu)

Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 170 (100% Power)
Kamehameha 足からかめはめ波: 210 [Kame'Sen' Nin]

Colonel Silver シルバー大佐: 38
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 54

Major Metallitron メタリック軍曹: 55
Kamehameha 足からかめはめ波: 70 [Son Goku]
Ninja Murasaki ムラサキ曹長: 15
Hatchan ハッチャン: 100
Buyon ブヨン: 80
General White ホワイト将軍: 10

General Blue ブルー将軍: 45
Arale Norimaki 則巻アラレ: 200

Bora ボラ: 80
Tao Pai Pai 桃白白: 140

KarinSama カリン: 190 (*)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 142

*Stated by Toriyama in Weekly Jump #31, 1991.

Red Commander レッド総帥: 5
Officer Black ブラック補佐: 18

Mira Kun ミイラくん: 80
Akkuman アックマン: 90
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 140

03 - EARTH DEMON:

Yamcha ヤムチャ: 100
Kuririn クリリン: 125
Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 180(*)

TsuruSen'Nin 鶴仙人: 120(*)
Chaozu 餃子: 90
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 180 (*)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 180 (*)

*'The evolution of Son Goku's power level', Daizenshuu 7, based in Toriyama's interview from Weekly Jump #31, 1991. Feb 25, 1997.

Tambourine タンバリン: 160
Yajirobe ヤジロベー: 165
Cymbal シンバル: 150

Piccolo Daimao ピッコロ大魔王: 210

Drum: 200
Piccolo Daimao ピッコロ大魔王: 260 (Youth) (*)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 260 (*)

*Stated by Toriyama in Weekly Jump #31, 1991. Also on Daizenshuu 7 (taken from Weekly Jump until Namek Saga)

Piccolo Daimao ピッコロ大魔王: 280 (100% Max. Power)

Mr. Popo ミスター・ポポ: 320(*)
KamiSama 神: 380(*)

*Stated by Toriyama in Weekly Jump #31, 1991. An error switches the Kami and Popo levels. Popo says "Kami is stronger than me". Only 220 in Weekly Jump #31, but this is impossible, Popo is stronger than Piccolo Daimao.

Yamcha ヤムチャ: 160
Kuririn クリリン: 195
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 225
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 320
Piccolo ピッコロ: 300
Chi Chi チチ: 30 (*)
Tao Pai Pai 桃白白: 210(*)

*Weekly Jump #31. Chichi has 130 but this is too much for her.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 410 (light clothes)
Kamehameha 足からかめはめ波: around 910(*) [Son Goku]
Piccolo ピッコロ: 400 (light clothes)

*Stated by Toriyama in Weekly Jump #31.

04 - SAIYAN SAGA:

Farmer 農家: 5 (*)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 332 (*)
Raditz ラディッツ: 1,500 (+)

*Raditz's scouter. #195, vol.XVII.
+Stated by Toriyama in Weekly Jump #31, 1991.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 334 (*)
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 710 (*)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 416 (light clothes) (*)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 408 (light clothes) (*)

*Raditz's scouter. #199, vol XVII.

Kamehameha 足からかめはめ波: over 924 (*) [Son Goku]
Makankosappo 魔貫光殺砲: 1,330 (*) [Piccolo]

*Raditz's scouter. #201, vol XVII.

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 1,307 (Enraged) (*)
Makankosappo 魔貫光殺砲: over 1,330

*Raditz's scouter. #203, vol. XVII.

Enma Daio 閻魔大王: 1,590

Kame'Sen'Nin: 139 (*)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 329 (*)
Kuririn クリリン: 206 (*)
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 177 (*)
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 250 (*)

*Stated by Bulma. #209, vol. XVIII.

KaioSama 北の界王: 3,500 (*)

*Stated by Toriyama in Weekly Jump #31, 1991.

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 981 (*)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 1,220 (*)
Kuririn クリリン: 1,083 (*)
Cultivars 栽培マン: 1,200 (+)

*Scanned by Nappa. #214, vol. XVIII.
+Nappa says: "All of these Saibamen have the same fighting power as ... as Raditz". But Raditz is stronger. #215, vol. XVIII.

Tenshinhan 天津飯: 1,850 (*)
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 1,480 (*)

*Weekly Jump #31, 1991.

Piccolo ピッコロ: 3,500 (*)
Kuririn クリリン: 1,770 (*)
Nappa ナッパ: 4,000 (*)

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 1,500
Masenko 龍拳: 2.800 (+)

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 5,000 (**)

*Weekly Jump #31, 1991. Last sento ryoku confirmed by Toriyama outside the manga. The Daizenshuu 7 power levels are really wrong.
+Stated by Vegeta. #223, vol. XIX.
**Stated by Vegeta. #222, vol. XIX.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 8,000 (*)
Nappa ナッパ: 5,000 (Max. Power)

*Stated by Vegeta. #224, vol. XIX.

Vegeta ベジータ: 18,000 (*)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 16,000 (Kaioken) (+)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: over 21,000 (Kaioken) (+)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 24,000 (Kaioken) (+)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 32,000 (Kaioken) (+)

*Zarbon states he has about the same level Vegeta had before fighting Goku. #247, vol. XXI.
+Kaioken x2, x3, x4. Bulma's modified scouter before exploding register only 21.000.

Vegeta ベジータ: less than 180,000 (Ozharu) (*)
Genkidama 元気玉: 160,000
Yajirobe ヤジロベー: 360

Genkidama 元気玉: 5,000
Vegeta ベジータ: 600
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 180
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 1,800 (Ozharu) (*)

*10 x regular Saiyan level. #233, vol. XX.

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: around 1,500 (*)
Kuririn クリリン: around 1,500(*)

*Stated by Zarbon. #248, vol. XXI.

Kiwi キュイ: 18,000 (*)
Vegeta ベジータ: 24,000 (+)

*Zarbon states he has about the same level Vegeta had before fighting Goku. #247, vol. XXI.
+Dodoria's scouter. #249, vol. XXI.

Namekians Elite Warriors 戦士タイプ: 1,000 (*)
Namekians Elite Warriors 戦士タイプ: 3,000 (Max. Power) (*)
Dodoria ドドリア: 22,000

Zarbón ザーボン: 23,000
Zarbón ザーボン: 27,000 (Transformed)

*Dodoria's scouter. #253, vol. XXII.

Gurd グルド: 1,000
Kuririn クリリン: over 10,000 (*)
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: over 10,000 (*)

*Jizu's scouter. #274, vol. XXIII.

Vegeta ベジータ: 30,000
Reakum リクーム: around 45,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 5,000
Butta バター: 45,000
Jisu ジース: 45,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 90,000 (*)

*Kaioken x2 = 180 in #285, vol. XXIV. So, 180 % 2 = 90.

Captain Ginyu ギニュー: 120,000 (*)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 180,000 (Kaioken) (+)

*Stated by Jizu. #285, vol. XXIV.
+Captain Ginyu's scouter. #285, vol. XXIV.

Nail ネイル: 42,000 (*)
Emperor Freezer フリーザ: 530,000 (*)

*Emperor Freezer's scouter. #286, vol. XXIV.

Captain Ginyu ギニュー: 23,000 (*) (Goku's body)
Vegeta ベジータ: 250,000 (+)

*Stated by Jizu. #288, vol. XXIV.
+Zenkai from Reacumu's battle. V-Jump #1, late 1991. Other stats marks 'Son Gohan' and 'Kuririn' with 200.000 and 75.000. But it's impossible.

Kuririn クリリン: 11,000
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 100,000

Emperor Freezer フリーザ: over 1,000.000 (*) (Second form)

*Emperor says "...is over 1 million!". #296, vol. XXV.

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 500,000 (Enraged Zenkai)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 1,000,000 (Fused with Nail)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 1,120,000 (light clothes)

Freezer フリーザ: 1,590,000 (Third form)
Freezer フリーザ: 2,120,000 (Final form)
Vegeta ベジータ: 350,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 300,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 2,000,000 (Active fight)
Freezer フリーザ: 6,000,000 (50% Power)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 3,000,000 (Kaioken)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 6,000,000 (Kaioken)

Genkidama 元気玉: 9,000,000 [Son Goku]

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 15,000,000 (*) (Super Saiyan)
Freezer フリーザ: 12,000,000

*Super saiyan = x50 times.

05 - RED RIBBON ARMY'S ULTIMATE ANDROID:

Freezer フリーザ: 2,200,000
Korudo Daio コルド大王: 1,900,000
Trunks トランクス: 5 (*)
Trunks トランクス: 260,000
Trunks トランクス: 13,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 308,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 15,400,000 (Super Saiyan)

*Soldier's scouter. #331, vol. XXVIII.

Kuririn クリリン: 14,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 7,500,000
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 8,000

Dr. Gero Dr. ゲロ: 9,000,000
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 42.000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 340,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 16,200,000 (sick)
Jinzoningen #19 人造人間19号: 8,000,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 2,100,000 (really sick after Kamehameha)
Jinzoningen #19 人造人間19号: 10,000,000 (after Kamehameha)

Vegeta ベジータ: 400,000
Vegeta ベジータ: 20,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 10,000,000 (light clothes)

Jinzoningen #18 人造人間18号: 30,000,000
Trunks トランクス: 340,000
Trunks トランクス: 17,000,000

Cell セル: 28,000,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 29,500,000 (Fused with KamiSama)

Jinzoningen #17 人造人間17号: 30,000,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 32,000,000 (light clothes)
Cell セル: 35,000,000
Jinzoningen #16 人造人間16号: 34,900,000

Cell セル: 65,000,000 (Semiperfect)
Vegeta ベジータ: 1,400,000 (ROSAT)
Trunks トランクス: 1,360,000 (ROSAT)
Vegeta ベジータ: 70,000,000 (ROSAT SSJ)
Vegeta ベジータ: 85,000,000 (ROSAT MSSJ a.k.a. Super Vegeta)
Trunks トランクス: 68,000,000 (ROSAT SSJ)

Cell セル: 95,000,000 (Perfect form)
Cell セル: 110,000,000 (Full)
Final Flash ファイナルフラッシュ: 100,000,000 [Vegeta]
Trunks トランクス: over 100,000,000 (ROSAT MSSJ a.k.a. Super Trunks)
Trunks トランクス: around 110,500,000 (ROSAT MSSJ a.k.a. Super Trunks 100% Max. Power)

Mr. Satán ミスター・サタン: 12
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 120,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Cell セル: 130,000,000
Kamehameha 足からかめはめ波: 129,000,000 [Son Goku]
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 122,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Vegeta ベジータ: 2,160,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 34,250,000
Trunks トランクス: 2,144,000

Cell Jr. セルジュニア: 110,000,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 37,500,000 (light clothes)
Vegeta ベジータ: 108,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Trunks トランクス: 107,200,000 (Super Saiyan)
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 244,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2)
Cell セル: 140,000,000
Cell セル: 190,000,000 (Max Power)

Cell セル: 240,000,000 (Ultimate perfect)
Oyako Kamehameha 親子かめかめ波: 300,000,000 [Son Gohan / Son Goku]

06 - THE UNIVERSAL EVIL SAGA:

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 2,200,000
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 110,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Videl ビーデル: 11
Kuririn クリリン: 10,000

Mr. Satán ミスター・サタン: 10
Son Goten 孫 悟天: 640,000
Son Goten 孫 悟天: 32,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Trunks トランクス: 655,000,000
Trunks トランクス: 32,750,000 (Super Saiyan)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 40,000,000
Punta プンター: 8
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 2,360,000
KaioShin 界王神: 35,000,000
Kibito キビ: 800,000
Spopovich スポポビッチ: 20

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 118,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 1,700,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2)

Bobbidi バビディ: 13
Pui Pui プイプイ: 26,000
Pui Pui プイプイ: 260,000 (in his own planet)
Vegeta ベジータ: 2,400,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 3,000,000
Yakon ヤコン: 80,000,000 (*)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 150,000,000 (Super Saiyan) (*)
Dabura ダーブラ: 100,000,000

(*)Bobbidi's power meter. 1 kiri = 50,000 BP. Yakon has 800 but Son Goku has 3,000 kiris. #442, vol. XXXVIII.

Vegeta ベジータ: 120,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Vegeta ベジータ: 240,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2)
Vegeta ベジータ: 300,000,000 (Majin Vegeta max. power)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 300,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2)
Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 220,000,000

Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 250,000,000 (Enraged)
Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 500,000,000
Final Explosion 最後の爆発: 750,000,000 [Vegeta]

Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 1,000,000,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 1,200,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3)

Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 1,300,000,000 (Enraged max full power)
Aku Bu 魔人ブウ純粋悪: 660,000,000
Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 640,000,000
Shin Bu魔人ブウ:悪: 1,300,000,000

Gotenks ゴテンクス: 3,375,000
Gotenks ゴテンクス: 168,750,000 (Super Saiyan)
Gotenks ゴテンクス: 1,350,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3)

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 1,800,000,000
Shin Bu魔人ブウ:悪: 2,690,000,000 (Gotenks absorbed)
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 76,000
KibitoShin 東の界王神: 280,000,000
Shin Bu魔人ブウ:悪: 4,490,000,000 (Gohan absorbed)
Vegetto ベジット: 7,200,000,000
Vegetto ベジット: 360,000,000,000 (Super Saiyan)

Minami No Kaio 南の界王: 530,000,000
Dai KaioShin 大界王神: less than 530,000,000
Chibi Bu 魔人ブウ純粋: 900,000,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 1,250,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3 max. power)
Vegeta ベジータ: 350,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2 max. power)
Vegeta ベジータ: 1,800,000 (Tired)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 2,100,000 (Tired, SSJ expired)
Genkidama 元気玉: 1,300,000,000 [Son Goku]

Pan パン: 20,000
Oob ウーブ: 7
Oob ウーブ: 3,500,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 3,800,000

07 - GOD SAGA:

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: around 3,200,000 (*)

*It is stated by Beerus in the movie that Goku's base form does not have enough power to defeat Freeza at full power. Battle Of Gods, 2013.

Beerus ビルス: around 360,000,000,000 (*)
Whis ウイス: over 360,000,000,000 (+)

*Beerus stated to be the absolute strongest being in Dragon Ball.
+Stated by Beerus to be stronger than himself.
____________________________

EDITED AND FIXED. Bye everyone. Send your comments. :)
Last edited by Mattias_ on Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:24 pm, edited 5 times in total.
POWER LEVELS: (Updated / Restored / Leveled / No multiplier nor daizenshuu wrong info)
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POWER LEVELS:

Jaco the Patrolman vol. I - XI
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Dragon Ball vol. I - XLII
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:20 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:If Toriyama wanted to, he could throw in SSJ4 and Golden Oozaru, and it wouldn't contradict anything. So again, I'm seeing no difference here.
But it never happened so far. The manga & anime/movie/video games are different worlds with different rules.
And why wouldn't the video games be a different world from the anime or movies? I see no reason to lump all of them together when they are just as incompatible with each other as the anime is with the manga.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:44 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:And why wouldn't the video games be a different world from the anime or movies?
Because they are based on the anime just like the movies are based on it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:46 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:And why wouldn't the video games be a different world from the anime or movies?
Because they are based on the anime just like the movies are based on it.
And the anime is based off the manga. Again, I'm seeing absolutely no difference with any of this.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:49 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:And the anime is based off the manga. Again, I'm seeing absolutely no difference with any of this.
The anime is a different world, with different rules, and different looks. This isn't the case with the video games.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:52 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:And the anime is based off the manga. Again, I'm seeing absolutely no difference with any of this.
The anime is a different world, with different rules, and different looks. This isn't the case with the video games.
The video games are a different world from the anime, with different rules, and different looks. You're not making a good case here.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:56 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:The video games are a different world from the anime, with different rules, and different looks. You're not making a good case here.
The anime story isn't a what-if version of the manga story. The video game stories, on the other hand, are what-if versions of the anime story.

And how do the video games have different rules (outside gameplay) & looks?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:03 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:The video games are a different world from the anime, with different rules, and different looks. You're not making a good case here.
The anime story isn't a what-if version of the manga story. The video game stories, on the other hand, are what-if versions of the anime story.

And how do the video games have different rules (outside gameplay) & looks?
No, what you have with the video games can vary from what-ifs of the anime, to unique stories, to fighting games with literally no story, to what ifs of each other. The video games by themselves can't be lumped into the same story, so I see no reason to lump them in with the anime.

In the video games, anybody in the game can compete with anyone else. In LoG 2, Tao Pai Pai takes on the Z Fighters as part of the story. In Super Sonic Warriors (1 and 2) you have events that could not possibly have occurred in the anime, such as Cooler teaming up with the Ginyu Force to take on Cell, or Piccolo fusing with Daimao and matching Super Buu, or Vegetto fighting Gogeta in Raging Blast, or Akkuman taking on the Cold family in Tenkaichi 3, or Broly showing up in Attack of the Saiyans, etc. etc. etc.

Furthermore, absolutely nothing connects the video games (except Online and Heroes, I guess) with the anime, or the manga. The video games are just as separate from the anime (and each other, besides the ones that actually connect, like the LoG trilogy) as the anime is from the manga. They are all (manga, anime, video game, anime comic, movies, blurbs on the back of action figure boxes, etc.) different forms of media telling different versions of the same story.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:38 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:\No, what you have with the video games can vary from what-ifs of the anime, to unique stories, to fighting games with literally no story, to what ifs of each other. The video games by themselves can't be lumped into the same story, so I see no reason to lump them in with the anime.
I'm aware, I'm not saying that they all take place in the same story, what I'm saying is that they are what-ifs of the anime story, just like Trunks' future is a what-if of the main timeline.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:43 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:\No, what you have with the video games can vary from what-ifs of the anime, to unique stories, to fighting games with literally no story, to what ifs of each other. The video games by themselves can't be lumped into the same story, so I see no reason to lump them in with the anime.
I'm aware, I'm not saying that they all take place in the same story, what I'm saying is that they are what-ifs of the anime story, just like Trunks' future is a what-if of the main timeline.
And what I'm saying is that that's no reason to take feats to take feats in the video games, such as Legendary Super Saiyan 3 Broly as possible to the anime, when you say that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is not possible in the manga. The video games are not the anime, just like the anime is not the manga.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:49 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:And what I'm saying is that that's no reason to take feats to take feats in the video games, such as Legendary Super Saiyan 3 Broly as possible to the anime, when you say that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is not possible in the manga. The video games are not the anime, just like the anime is not the manga.
Not exactly. The anime is not the manga, period. The video games are not the anime, but could have been the anime.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:52 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:And what I'm saying is that that's no reason to take feats to take feats in the video games, such as Legendary Super Saiyan 3 Broly as possible to the anime, when you say that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is not possible in the manga. The video games are not the anime, just like the anime is not the manga.
Not exactly. The anime is not the manga, period. The video games are not the anime, but could have been the anime.
And this is the part that's not making sense. The video games are not the anime, period. Just like the anime is not the manga. What "could have been" doesn't matter. Toriyama "could have" shoved GT at the end the manga if he wanted to.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:21 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:And this is the part that's not making sense. The video games are not the anime, period. Just like the anime is not the manga. What "could have been" doesn't matter. Toriyama "could have" shoved GT at the end the manga if he wanted to.
But GT isn't a what-if of the anime, while the video games are what-ifs of the anime.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:30 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:And this is the part that's not making sense. The video games are not the anime, period. Just like the anime is not the manga. What "could have been" doesn't matter. Toriyama "could have" shoved GT at the end the manga if he wanted to.
But GT isn't a what-if of the anime, while the video games are what-ifs of the anime.
Says who? And why does that matter anyway? The video games are not the anime is not the manga.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:35 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Says who?
The what-ifs are called, well, what-ifs within the games. GT isn't called a what-if anywhere, it is a continuation of the anime.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:42 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Says who?
The what-ifs are called, well, what-ifs within the games. GT isn't called a what-if anywhere, it is a continuation of the anime.
Yeah, but who says that they are what-ifs of the anime? Why not what-ifs of the Dragon Ball story in general? Nothing ever specifies the anime.

And again, why does it matter? Since when, in any franchise, does what happens in a what-if serve as any indication as to what is possible in the "main" storyline? And, again, the video games aren't even consistent with each other, let alone the anime or movies. They're not meant to be. Each video game series is its own thing, its own retelling of the original story.

I'm fine with continuing this, but if we do so, I'd suggest you make a new thread for it. It doesn't really belong here, at this point.
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