The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think he's referring to Freeza being able to go beyond his 50% power. Gohan was the only one around when Freeza started to power-up to his max.

[FNF]

Gohan seemed to be the only one who knew Freeza could power up even further meaning Freeza was probably using 50% of his power considering he was the only one who sensed > 50% Freeza apart from Goku.

You're forgetting Piccolo and Kuririn.

Turlast nailed it.

Gohan was the only one, apart from Goku, who sensed Freeza go beyond 50% and he seems to be the only one who knows Freeza can get stronger on his arrival on Earth.

[Fox666]

FYI, Gohan seemed to be the only one who knew Freeza could power up even further meaning Freeza was probably using 50% of his power considering he was the only one who sensed > 50% Freeza apart from Goku.

I don't really see where you are getting this from. Gohan was just telling Yamcha that Freeza can get even stronger than that... which doesn't add anything in regards of how much percentage Freeza is using.

Doubt it. Vegeta seemed to think they were all doomed despite him fighting a Freeza only around 3,000,000.

Vegeta was crying like a baby, literally.

Considering Piccolo and Vegeta (esp. Piccolo) had been training over the prior ~2 years and likely surpassed that level, I doubt he would react like that.

Or they didn't surpassed that at all... there is no way to tell.

It's not really that random.

I don't see what makes it more likely than any other number like 34% or 8.31%.

[FNF]

FYI, Gohan seemed to be the only one who knew Freeza could power up even further meaning Freeza was probably using 50% of his power considering he was the only one who sensed > 50% Freeza apart from Goku.

I don't really see where you are getting this from. Gohan was just telling Yamcha that Freeza can get even stronger than that... which doesn't add anything in regards of how much percentage Freeza is using.

Gohan was the only one apart from Goku who knew Freeza could get stronger than his '50%' -----> AT chooses Gohan to point out to Yamcha he can get even stronger.

I think it's simply a matter of connecting the dots when you take that into account inc Piccolo and co's reactions.

Doubt it. Vegeta seemed to think they were all doomed despite him fighting a Freeza only around 3,000,000.

Vegeta was crying like a baby, literally.

But the gap between them wasn't really that much. Freeza wasn't multi-fold stronger than him and it's commonly excepted that Piccolo had surpassed Vegeta at the least at this point.

Considering Piccolo and Vegeta (esp. Piccolo) had been training over the prior ~2 years and likely surpassed that level, I doubt he would react like that.

Or they didn't surpassed that at all... there is no way to tell.

Same as the above really... The gap could have easily been made up and considering there were more fighters at that level to fight Freeza, they could have probably managed something by teaming up. However, Vegeta and Piccolo were already like 'shit we done'.

It's not really that random.

I don't see what makes it more likely than any other number like 34% or 8.31%.

Except the fact that Freeza specifically mentions 50% as a level of power he uses

How about 50% +/- 5%? Is that any better?

[Rocketman]

Since when is it "commonly accepted" that Piccolo surpassed Vegeta?

[Bussani]

Gohan was the only one apart from Goku who knew Freeza could get stronger than his '50%' -----> AT chooses Gohan to point out to Yamcha he can get even stronger.

I think it's simply a matter of connecting the dots when you take that into account inc Piccolo and co's reactions.

Except the fact that Freeza specifically mentions 50% as a level of power he uses

I don't think these are proof of much. Does there really need to be a reason for it to be Gohan who said it? Kuririn and Piccolo don't seem to show any surprise to me, so it could just be a coincidence that they weren't the ones to say anything. Even if that's not the case, 70% is also a level of power Freeza uses, and Gohan's the only one other than Goku who knows he can go higher than that as well, so couldn't you just as easily come to the conclusion that he was at 70%?

I'm not saying there isn't logic in your deduction, but it's still guesswork.

[In Brightest Day]

Son Gohan and Kaioshin vs. Dabura and Bobbidi.

Basically, if Majin Buu hadn't awakened, how would have this fight gone down?

[Kaboom]

Neither Gohan or Kaioshin are competent enough to win through any sort of worthwhile teamwork. Their only hope is for Gohan to not repeat his prior battle with Dabra and this time manage an anger-shortcut of some sort to SSj2, then proceed to death-blitz both opponents at once.

[In Brightest Day]

If Piccolo can beat Bobbidi with at most moderate difficulty (and that's only the shield, as all of his offense Piccolo brushed off easily), why would Kaioshin at all struggle against him?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Would probably give the victory to Dabra and Bobbidi. I don't think Dabra's anything special, but right before Boo's meter was filled, I kinda had a feeling Gohan was going to lose. He didn't appear to have any confidence--especially after Dabra claimed he'd have no trouble handling Gohan based on their previous fight. Overall, I think Gohan is strong enough to potentially win...but I don't think he would.

Kaioshin should be powerful enough to handle Bobbidi, but the latter would probably raise a barrier and keep Kaioshin away long enough until Dabra decides to make quick work of Kaioshin. Kaioshin tries to run from Dabra, only to be caught. Kaioshin would get desperate and use his kiai eyes attack, knocking Dabra back and stunning him. Once Kaioshin realizes his attack wasn't enough, he tries some other magical attack...and Dabra petrifies him with his stone spit. He then kicks over the newly formed historical statue of the once great Kaioshin--erasing the pieces with his flame breath, putting an end to the Kaioshin's story once and for all.

[In Brightest Day]

Dabra killing Gohan before Kaioshin finishes Bobbidi seems like a stretch to me.

[Fox666]

Gohan was the only one apart from Goku who knew Freeza could get stronger than his '50%' -----> AT chooses Gohan to point out to Yamcha he can get even stronger.

I think it's simply a matter of connecting the dots when you take that into account inc Piccolo and co's reactions.

I don't really see where you are getting that from. Gohan just said Freeza can get stronger, that's all.

But the gap between them wasn't really that much. Freeza wasn't multi-fold stronger than him and it's commonly excepted that Piccolo had surpassed Vegeta at the least at this point.

Since when? By whom?

Same as the above really... The gap could have easily been made up and considering there were more fighters at that level to fight Freeza, they could have probably managed something by teaming up. However, Vegeta and Piccolo were already like 'shit we done'.

That seems purely speculative to me. So I don't see how you can use it as evidence.

Besides even if they surpassed Freeza initial power, there is a wide range of options beetween 2-3% and 70%...

Except the fact that Freeza specifically mentions 50% as a level of power he uses

How about 50% +/- 5%? Is that any better?

Freeza didn't said anything, you did.

[Saiga]

Why does everyone think Piccolo from the Cell arc would matter against Broli? Broli fought against SS2 Gohan after all, Piccolo would be swatted away like a gnat.

I think Goten and Trunks combined would be able to defeat him, though. At the end of Z I reckon they'd have almost caught up with Boo Arc Goku and Vegeta, because of how obscenely strong they were as children.

[Pantalones]

...wasn't it implied that Goten and Trunks got weaker (or at least stayed about the same) during the 10 years after Buu?

What with the whole "not really training anymore, more focused on getting dates" thing. There is no freakin' way they ever caught up to Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta (and even if by some complete fluke they actually got close, they still don't have SSj2 individually--I don't think just using SSj3 as Gotenks means they can suddenly use SSj2 and SSj3 individually, since Gotenks is pretty much a different person, plus magic is involved--so they still wouldn't be able to match even half of what Goku and Vegeta's max would be.)

As for Piccolo... anyone from the Cell Games should be able to at least put up something of a fight against Broly, going by the "first Broly movie takes place in a universe where Goku/Gohan left the room early because someone else killed Cell" theory. Piccolo probably still couldn't beat Broly at that level, at least not on his own, but the same Piccolo who was almost keeping up with a Cell Jr. (which seem to have the same power as the semi-suppressed Perfect Cell that Goku fought, just less intelligence and a tendency to play around) would hardly get "swatted away like a gnat" by movie 8 Broly. He'd cause some damage, maybe even some pretty significant damage given that Broly can't regenerate.

Broly seems so overpoweringly strong because everyone in the Broly movie was weaker than they would've been at the Cell Games (going by the "never finished training" theory anyway, which makes sense considering that Vegeta and Trunks don't seem to be that far behind Goku and Gohan compared to how far behind they were at the Cell Games--Goku/Gohan at least caught up with Vegeta and Trunks and Goku may have surpassed them by a bit, but they still never finished their training so they never mastered Super Saiyan or got to the extreme levels they had at the Cell Games; Vegeta/Trunks/Piccolo never went in for the second round of their training), so the Super Saiyans in that movie would pretty much all still only be at "Vegeta whooping semi-perfect Cell's ass" levels of power and Piccolo would be only around the level of Android 17. At the Cell Games, on the other hand, Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo were all strong enough to keep up with a Cell Jr. to some extent, while Goku could pretty much evenly fight a (semi-suppressed) Perfect Cell and Gohan was even stronger but just couldn't bring himself to fight. There's a huge gap between pre-Cell-Games and post-Cell-Games versions of all of the main fighters at that point.

It was only the stronger Broly of movie 10 that ever fought a SSj2 Gohan, and that was a weaker SSj2 Gohan than the one who showed up at the Cell Games... so that doesn't really say anything about movie 8 Broly's strength in relation to Gohan.

[Insertclevername]

Why does everyone think Piccolo from the Cell arc would matter against Broli? Broli fought against SS2 Gohan after all, Piccolo would be swatted away like a gnat.

I think Goten and Trunks combined would be able to defeat him, though. At the end of Z I reckon they'd have almost caught up with Boo Arc Goku and Vegeta, because of how obscenely strong they were as children.

Yeah the only reason I put Piccolo in there was for a support role. The real fighting would have just been Goten and Trunks.

On the topic of the Dabra/Bobbodi and Gohan/Kaioshin fight.

Honestly, I feel like Gohan/Kaioshin would pull out a victory here, based on the fact that Bobbidi would hold Dabra back. If Gohan and Dabra get into an even fight again, that leaves Kaioshin and Bobbidi to go at it. Kaioshin can clearly kill Bobbidi, just like Piccolo did. Dabra, who is under mind control, would be distracted in his fight and try to help his master out. Its likely that Dabra, who was struggling against a rusty Gohan, would leave his guard down, giving Gohan a chance to pull off a super Kamehameha to obliterate Dabra. Then that would leave Bobbidi, who would get massacred so bad....


Also, Dabra comment about taking on Gohan (even though he was clearly struggling before) is total B.S. It's obvious pre battle pride, pep talk crap. If your going to take that word for word, then you might as well take Vegeta's comments seriously.

[Mystic Gohan]

Perhaps Dabura was relying on his spit.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think he's referring to Freeza being able to go beyond his 50% power. Gohan was the only one around when Freeza started to power-up to his max.

Ah, right.

But we still don’t know how much percentage of power Freeza was using. It could’ve been anywhere from 1% to 80%, if that. All we know is that Freeza was at a suppressed level of power, and Gohan knew that he could get much stronger. Gohan happening to be the one that said it doesn’t prove anything, since it’s not as if Piccolo or Kuririn were shown acting surprised.

Son Gohan and Kaioshin vs. Dabura and Bobbidi.

Basically, if Majin Buu hadn't awakened, how would have this fight gone down?

I agree with Kaboom and Super Saiyan Turlast x4 that Gohan and Kaioushin would lose. The only shot they’d have at victory is if Gohan somehow managed to nail Dabra with a Kamehameha at the level of the one he fired at Boo’s shell (since Dabra was shocked by it and apparently deemed it dangerous enough to dive out of the way), Dabra got too distracted with his master Bobbodi fighting Kaioushin, and/or Kaioushin finishing off Bobbodi first and helping Gohan to defeat Dabra.

If Piccolo can beat Bobbidi with at most moderate difficulty (and that's only the shield, as all of his offense Piccolo brushed off easily), why would Kaioshin at all struggle against him?

Because Piccolo sliced Bobbodi in half when he was off-guard, since he didn’t have his barrier up (I believe he only did that in the anime) and had his back turned when he panicked and shouted for Boo to kill Piccolo. It’s pretty much a case of (plot-induced) villain stupidity, and that pretty much everyone were holding the Idiot Ball in this arc.

Regardless, Kaioushin still deemed Bobbodi’s magic dangerous enough to be a threat, which is why he didn’t rush in to defeat him alone and recruited the Super Saiyans on Earth.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

"first Broly movie takes place in a universe where Goku/Gohan left the room early because someone else killed Cell" theory.

I never understood the logic behind this theory. Why would Goku & Gohan leave earlier? How did they know that Cell was killed? And why would Goku stop training for that reason?

[Piccolo Daimao]

"first Broly movie takes place in a universe where Goku/Gohan left the room early because someone else killed Cell" theory.

I never understood the logic behind this theory. Why would Goku & Gohan leave earlier? How did they know that Cell was killed? And why would Goku stop training for that reason?

Perhaps Mr. Popo would pop in and tell them that Vegeta and/or Trunks killed Cell. As for why Gokuu would stop training because of that...maybe he was just more laidback this time and understood that there was no need to continue torturing both himself and Gohan in the RoSaT when Cell was already dead.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Perhaps Mr. Popo would pop in and tell them that Vegeta and/or Trunks killed Cell.

But why would he do this?

As for why Gokuu would stop training because of that...maybe he was just more laidback this time and understood that there was no need to continue torturing both himself and Gohan in the RoSaT when Cell was already dead.

Come on now, we all know Goku. If he knows he can get stronger, he won't let the chance go.