Unpopular DB opinions

[nickzambuto]

So I come here to talk with like-minded people, only to find the exact opposite, every single thread just divulges into a circle-jerk about how every person involved with the dub is an awful actor. And I get equally infuriated because I remember that I love the dub.

This must be what it's like to get stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Really now? I've been on this forum for months now and I've never heard someone say that everyone involved was awful. Maybe some like Nadolny or someone else they don't like but not every single person involved. Also, this isn't aimed towards specifically you, but why do people keep using the term "circle-jerk" every time a group happens to agree about something? I've seen it used to describe things from Japanese DB to the Japanese actors.

Although the term "circle-jerk" can be said from a place of insecurity, that shouldn't distort another unfortunate reality concerning "circle-jerks" in forums. In that particular case, it's not necessarily about multiple users agreeing about the quality of a product, whether good or bad. Rather, it's having an empty discussion where rather than actually committing to discourse that actually delves into a matter of learning new perspectives, most of it revolves around stroking each other's egos in a self-congratulatory, elitist sort of way and validating biases that don't conflict with each other. It leaves a bad impression on new users that might think that unless they conform to the "status quo", their opinions will be viciously shut down and they'll be faced with scorn from the self-important, especially if moderators turn a blind eye to it all and/or willingly take part it in.

I suppose in nickzambuto's case, he feels as though dub actors, specifically the FUNi cast if my deduction is reasonable, are fair game when it comes to forum-wide ridicule, no matter how much it might compromise the validity of order and integrity that the rules promise to uphold. That's just my take on it based on what he said and my actual experiences dealing with forum circle-jerks. Thing is, if Kanzenshuu really were like that, then I think some very infamous users would still be allowed to post here today. Ain't that the truth?

Yes, very smart explanation.

[Cipher]

Ain't that the truth?

Oh my.

Anyway, I realized recently that I've written a ton of posts in the Dragon Ball Super Power Levels thread, which is kind of upsetting. Everything's enough of a fascinating mess in that series that I'm interested in trying to get a lock on what its general approach is supposed to be as far as what we're watching -- what kinds of decisions or miscommunication have happened behind the scenes, etc. Basically figuring out the intent on a very broad scale when it comes to relative strength (actually a pretty foregrounded story element in Dragon Ball!) which has never been this obtuse.

Unfortunately every time I pop in I'm reminded that it's an actual numbers game to people in which every scene must be interpreted literally without regard for theatricality and in which meta discussion has little to no place. The plausible intent is always subject to the most recent on-screen development, to the level of interpreting minute fight details touched by story board artists, single episode writers, animators and directors. If that doesn't all perfectly line up, the whole thing makes no sense! There can't be any broad intent despite theatrical flourishes or inconsistencies!

At the same time, that kind of "Okay, what's the intent on a broad scale?" in-universe conversation has nowhere else to go. I see why strength discussions are such a joke, but I wish, at least for the mysterious production that is Super, a non-joke version existed somewhere.

[Kanassa]

I just can not take anybody seriously if their only exposure to the series is the original FUNimation dub back on Toonami when they were 10, it doesn't matter if they're wearing a Goku shirt.

People who lorde the dub or sub too much can be very infuriating, but not being able to take anyone seriously for not watching the sub seems equally asinine.

[nickzambuto]

I just can not take anybody seriously if their only exposure to the series is the original FUNimation dub back on Toonami when they were 10, it doesn't matter if they're wearing a Goku shirt.

People who lorde the dub or sub too much can be very infuriating, but not being able to take anyone seriously for not watching the sub seems equally asinine.

Yes, I know. I used to feel that same way. There was a post in this very thread maybe a year ago where somebody said he doesn't consider non-Japanese audio viewers to even be real fans of the show, and I thought that was ridiculous.

But the more I learn about just how vastly different the American dub made the show, with the script changes and editing and new music, I start to side with him. They really are two separate shows, so if you've never watched in Japanese (or, read the manga) I can not consider you a real Dragon Ball fan. You basically watched a different show.

[kinisking]

I'm okay with Gohan becoming a bad fighter. It's completely in character given he is half human.

Agreed on this one. I mentioned a couple times in regards to Episode 52 of Super, that if they're going this path with Gohan, that was the way to do it.

Yup, I'd rather have them NOT take that path but like you said if they're going this path with Gohan then that really was the best way to do it.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I don't like the English Dub for DBZ Kai. Not sure how controversial that is

[Bansho64]

I don't like the English Dub for DBZ Kai. Not sure how controversial that is

It's an unpopular opinion on here but a fairly widespread one outside of this website. Why do you feel this way might I ask? Is it just English dubbed Kai you dislike? Or English dubs in general?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I don't like the English Dub for DBZ Kai. Not sure how controversial that is

It's an unpopular opinion on here but a fairly widespread one outside of this website. Why do you feel this way might I ask? Is it just English dubbed Kai you dislike? Or English dubs in general?

Simply put, the casting choices, while better than the old Z actors, is still poorly done. Some minor examples are Sean not fitting Goku, Sabat's voices bleed into each other, Chris was able to capture Freeza's elegance, but not his sadism or his arrogance.

My major gripe, however, is Gohan's voice, Clinkenbeard. Although she's much better than her predecessor, always has an aggressive tone when voicing Gohan, no matter the situation. Gohan isn't a character that constantly emotes anger or frustration, quite the opposite. It's also worth noting that I have the same problem with Trunks' VA for the same reason, although not to the same extent.

It may seem like there aren't enough problems for me to write off the whole dub, but these few VA's play such a vital role, the quality of the entire product hinges on them nailing the performance.

[Bansho64]

Simply put, the casting choices, while better than the old Z actors, is still poorly done.

Are there any Non-Japanese dubs of anything DB related that you do like? Not specifically English, anything really.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Simply put, the casting choices, while better than the old Z actors, is still poorly done.

Are there any Non-Japanese dubs of anything DB related that you do like? Not specifically English, anything really.

I've never tried any other than the JP and English. I do like dubs of some other anime. "Death Note" & both versions of "Fullmetal Alchemist" are the first that come to mind.

Edit: I want to interpret for a living. Once I'm finished with school, I plan to learn both Spanish and French, so I'll probably try more dubs in the future.

[Bansho64]

Edit: I want to interpret for a living. Once I'm finished with school, I plan to learn both Spanish and French, so I'll probably try more dubs in the future.

In that case I'd recommend you check out the French Kai dub and the Latin American dub or "Audio Latino" as people in Latin America call it. Here's a sample from Both Dubs. Also, that's awesome that you plan to learn Spanish and French. We need more language learners on here

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Edit: I want to interpret for a living. Once I'm finished with school, I plan to learn both Spanish and French, so I'll probably try more dubs in the future.

In that case I'd recommend you check out the French Kai dub and the Latin American dub or "Audio Latino" as people in Latin America call it. Here's a sample from Both Dubs. Also, that's awesome that you plan to learn Spanish and French. We need more language learners on here

Thanks, I want to try it at Japanese too, but having to learn an entirely different type of language seems a little intimidating. I'll probably get to it at some point.

By the way, the French Dub sounds on point! Better performance there than the JP version of Kai.

[kinisking]

I don't like Piccolo's cape or turban.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I don't like Piccolo's cape or turban.

I like the look on paper, but the anime really overdoes it. The wind is always blowing it, it's insane the amount of turbulence this thing must cause. Furthermore, the episode near the beginning of Z where Piccolo shows up at Kame House, he's literally playing with the cape as he's talking about how to deal with Raditz.

Worth noting that he didn't play with his cape in the manga version, and even if his cape is functioning as a wind turbine, it's not noticeable.

[Dbzfan94]

I don't like Piccolo's cape or turban.

I like the look on paper, but the anime really overdoes it. The wind is always blowing it, it's insane the amount of turbulence this thing must cause. Furthermore, the episode near the beginning of Z where Piccolo shows up at Kame House, he's literally playing with the cape as he's talking about how to deal with Raditz.

Worth noting that he didn't play with his cape in the manga version, and even if his cape is functioning as a wind turbine, it's not noticeable.

Now that's something I gotta go back and look for. Never noticed it before

[nickzambuto]

I think Schemmel knows how to capture happy go-lucky curious and innocent Goku just as well as Nozawa. It's those moments when he becomes real low and drop-dead, cold-stone serious that I think are out of character, but that's probably just direction.

Also Stephanie Nadolny did a fantastic job *runs*

[ABED]

I think Schemmel knows how to capture happy go-lucky curious and innocent Goku just as well as Nozawa. It's those moments when he becomes real low and drop-dead, cold-stone serious that I think are out of character, but that's probably just direction.

Also Stephanie Nadolny did a fantastic job *runs*

How is that out of character?

[Dbzfan94]

I think Schemmel knows how to capture happy go-lucky curious and innocent Goku just as well as Nozawa. It's those moments when he becomes real low and drop-dead, cold-stone serious that I think are out of character, but that's probably just direction.

Also Stephanie Nadolny did a fantastic job *runs*

How is his voice getting deeper when serious out of character? Nozawa has a naturally higher voice than Schemmel does

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I think Schemmel knows how to capture happy go-lucky curious and innocent Goku just as well as Nozawa. It's those moments when he becomes real low and drop-dead, cold-stone serious that I think are out of character, but that's probably just direction.

Also Stephanie Nadolny did a fantastic job *runs*

I actually think that nowadays Schemmel's serious moments as Goku are on par with Nozawa. Yes his pitches are lower, but that's more to do with Schemmel using his natural tone for the serious moments. I would go as far as to say most of his performances as Goku in Kai and the recent movies in general have been superb, and he's done a better job than any of the other English adult Gokus to date.

The main thing I would say Schemmel's missing is the childlike hick vibe Nozawa gives the character, but otherwise for all the other essential traits (goofiness, screams, etc) he is the best English Goku there's been.

It's kind of sad we may never hear Richard Ian Cox playing Goku because I am curious (very curious ) to see how he would have done.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't like Piccolo's cape or turban.

I like the look on paper, but the anime really overdoes it. The wind is always blowing it, it's insane the amount of turbulence this thing must cause. Furthermore, the episode near the beginning of Z where Piccolo shows up at Kame House, he's literally playing with the cape as he's talking about how to deal with Raditz.

Worth noting that he didn't play with his cape in the manga version, and even if his cape is functioning as a wind turbine, it's not noticeable.

Y'know, I've never noticed this, and it doesn't really bother me, but I got a great laugh out of this. Post of the month so far.