Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Kuririn Fan]

" The entire point of introducing them was to show how unreliable and meaningless they were. "

[DragonHermit]

Didn't Whis say SSB retains Ki inside the user's body and doesn't waste it like regular Ki?

SSB = hard to maintain because of fatigue. SSJ = harsh on the physical body and can do long term damage. Two different things. FSSJ should theoretically be better equipped to handle Kaioken, but going to Kaioken might screw up the user's previously established control.

[sintzu]

If Goku in BOG was a 6, Beerus a 10 and Whis a 15 then after training with Whis and reaching Ssjb that would push him at the very least to 6.5.

Add 3 years of training with Vegeta and he'd reach a 7.

7 * Kaio Ken *10 = 70

Yet somehow Beerus and Whis are stronger at 10 and 15 each ?

Say what you want about Z's power levels but at least you could make some sense out of them.

[ekrolo2]

" The entire point of introducing them was to show how unreliable and meaningless they were. "

And he does this by showing that, unless you've got a power up, transformation or Kienzan, the guy with the bigger "meaningless, unerliable number" can rip out your intestnines and hang you off a tree with them because even a miniscule difference in power automatically makes the other guy leaps and bounds faster, stronger, more durable and just all around better than you.

If Toriyama didn't blatantly write PLs as THE de-facto deciding factor for who will win or lose, allowing a guy with a PL of say 1500 to beat a guy of 8000 under ordinary conditions (with some difficulty of course) then the series would make sense with what he's saying. But he doesn't, unless your vaguely designated number is lower than the other guys, you will get murder stomped.

[DragonHermit]

Say what you want about Z's power levels but at least you could make some sense out of them.

Did Toriyama ever say the 6/10/15 scale was linear? It could be that 6 is billions, 7 is trillions, 8 is quadrillions, etc... It doesn't necessarily mean 10 is twice as strong as 5. Besides, that was just an off-hand comment that never appeared in the series.

[WittyUsername]

Say what you want about Z's power levels but at least you could make some sense out of them.

Did Toriyama ever say the 6/10/15 scale was linear? It could be that 6 is billions, 7 is trillions, 8 is quadrillions, etc... It doesn't necessarily mean 10 is twice as strong as 5. Besides, that was just an off-hand comment that never appeared in the series.

Something that did appear in the series however, was Beerus mentioning that he had to use 70% of his power to defeat Goku as a regular Super Saiyan God. I know that manga/anime writers seem to be pretty ridiculous with the whole power percentage thing(Toguro from Yu Yu Hakusho is a perfect example of that), but unless we later find out at Beerus was actually lying about that, it seems like Goku by this point should be far stronger than him.

[DragonHermit]

Say what you want about Z's power levels but at least you could make some sense out of them.

Did Toriyama ever say the 6/10/15 scale was linear? It could be that 6 is billions, 7 is trillions, 8 is quadrillions, etc... It doesn't necessarily mean 10 is twice as strong as 5. Besides, that was just an off-hand comment that never appeared in the series.

Something that did appear in the series however, was Beerus mentioning that he had to use 70% of his power to defeat Goku as a regular Super Saiyan God. I know that manga/anime writers seem to be pretty ridiculous with the whole power percentage thing(Toguro from Yu Yu Hakusho is a perfect example of that), but unless we later find out at Beerus was actually lying about that, it seems like Goku by this point should be far stronger than him.

Was the 70% in Super or BoG?

[TheMikado]

" The entire point of introducing them was to show how unreliable and meaningless they were. "

And he does this by showing that, unless you've got a power up, transformation or Kienzan, the guy with the bigger "meaningless, unerliable number" can rip out your intestnines and hang you off a tree with them because even a miniscule difference in power automatically makes the other guy leaps and bounds faster, stronger, more durable and just all around better than you.

If Toriyama didn't blatantly write PLs as THE de-facto deciding factor for who will win or lose, allowing a guy with a PL of say 1500 to beat a guy of 8000 under ordinary conditions (with some difficulty of course) then the series would make sense with what he's saying. But he doesn't, unless your vaguely designated number is lower than the other guys, you will get murder stomped.

Exactly, this has been the overarching theme of Z and the first two arcs of Super. Absolute power trumps absolutely in the Dragonball world except where plot convenient.

[TheMikado]

Was the 70% in Super or BoG

BoG, super had Ragetas 10% comment.

[Birusu16]

Say what you want about Z's power levels but at least you could make some sense out of them.

Did Toriyama ever say the 6/10/15 scale was linear? It could be that 6 is billions, 7 is trillions, 8 is quadrillions, etc... It doesn't necessarily mean 10 is twice as strong as 5. Besides, that was just an off-hand comment that never appeared in the series.

Something that did appear in the series however, was Beerus mentioning that he had to use 70% of his power to defeat Goku as a regular Super Saiyan God. I know that manga/anime writers seem to be pretty ridiculous with the whole power percentage thing(Toguro from Yu Yu Hakusho is a perfect example of that), but unless we later find out at Beerus was actually lying about that, it seems like Goku by this point should be far stronger than him.

That was in the movie, not the series.

[dbzfan7]

That's why I'm considering giving up on power level discussions...

I already think I am. This episode has convinced me that by next week, power levels will make even less sense. So no point in trying to make sense of any rubbish or pre-established tripe (even in Super itself), as they'll constantly change the rules. Any statement you hear now, can likely make no sense later.

[DragonHermit]

That was in the movie, not the series.

Then it should be disregarded. Along with the 6/10/15 that was meant for the movies.

We saw the feats in Super were far different than the movie.

[Chiki]

Guys, if the 6-10-15 scale is true (which I think it could be) then how did Whis OHKO Beerus when Whis is only x1.5 Beerus's power? Shouldn't Kaioken x10 Goku who is like 70-90 basically be able to finger flick Beerus then?

I don't know what to think anymore.

[TheMikado]

That's why I'm considering giving up on power level discussions...

I already think I am. This episode has convinced me that by next week, power levels will make even less sense. So no point in trying to make sense of any rubbish or pre-established tripe (even in Super itself), as they'll constantly change the rules. Any statement you hear now, can likely make no sense later.

I've basically said this every page now but when you try to piece it all together Supers power levels are as strong as the narrative and fan service dictate they should be. It's not fun anymore and the poor writing from it and taking some of the fun out of the series. Taken in a vacuum with little corresponding information the episodes are technically fine. But for fans who really investigate every technique and power up they can Super has not been a fun ride in terms of making sense of it all.

[Birusu16]

That was in the movie, not the series.

Then it should be disregarded. Along with the 6/10/15 that was meant for the movies.

We saw the feats in Super were far different than the movie.

Oh I wasn't arguing otherwise as I agree. I don't take anything from the movies into consideration when discussing power levels from Super and I've been a staunch supporter of throwing out the 6/10/15 scale for a while now.

[sintzu]

Did Toriyama ever say the 6/10/15 scale was linear? It could be that 6 is billions, 7 is trillions, 8 is quadrillions, etc... It doesn't necessarily mean 10 is twice as strong as 5.

Besides, that was just an off-hand comment that never appeared in the series.

"I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15"

I know it was an off hand comment but as of now it's the only official thing we have about their power.

[TheMikado]

That was in the movie, not the series.

Then it should be disregarded. Along with the 6/10/15 that was meant for the movies.

We saw the feats in Super were far different than the movie.

Oh I wasn't arguing otherwise as I agree. I don't take anything from the movies into consideration when discussing power levels from Super and I've been a staunch supporter of throwing out the 6/10/15 scale for a while now.

The only thing that was in Super was the 10% Rageta that were also supposed to through out now.

[namekiansaiyan]

In the next episode Hit is going to get stronger and will probably be a lot Stronger than Goku as he has used his best technique and survives. Even now I think Hit is stronger than Goku as he is taking attacks easily while Goku has been knocked down twice.

Power levels should be in lists of strongest to weakest.

The 15/10/6 power scale should be thrown in the bin and forgotten.

[Chiki]

In the next episode Hit is going to get stronger and will probably be a lot Stronger than Goku as he has used his best technique and survives. Even now I think Hit is stronger than Goku as he is taking attacks easily while Goku has been knocked down twice.

Power levels should be in lists of strongest to weakest.

The 15/10/6 power scale should be thrown in the bin and forgotten.

Hit's power level isn't going up, it's his Tokitobashi technique that is improving. It was stated in the episode.

[sintzu]

With all the material we have across the 4 series, I'm surprised they haven't released a power level guide book that explains where everyone stands in each arc.