Unpopular DB opinions

[rereboy]

Sure, humor undercuts things, but I think his point about fairness is he's not deserving of being undercut to the extent that he is. If someone is going to laugh at Kuririn for dying a lot, how come he's singled out and Piccolo isn't?

And my point is that humour, by its very nature, isn't concerned with that. It doesn't care with fairness or if it's deserving or how it compares. All it cares is if it's funny and by it's very nature, being funny means that it's at the expense of something. Which is why that it's so very important to learn how to take a joke.

A guy that sees a Yamcha joke and instead of laughing or, at least, seeing the humor in it, says, seriously: "Yamcha doesn't deserve this, he is one the strongest beings on the planet and he is a good guy" is simply not getting it or even ruining the joke/humour.

That being said, humour can be done either for humour sake or simply to be mean... but that's another discussion.

[Bansho64]

I don't like John Burgmeier's Tenshinhan.
I don't like Chris Sabat's Yamucha
Blooma sounds better than Bulma
I don't like the SSJ3 theme made by Faulconer Production's

[ABED]

Sure, humor undercuts things, but I think his point about fairness is he's not deserving of being undercut to the extent that he is. If someone is going to laugh at Kuririn for dying a lot, how come he's singled out and Piccolo isn't?

And my point is that humour, by its very nature, isn't concerned with that. It doesn't care with fairness or if it's deserving or how it compares. All it cares is if it's funny and by it's very nature, being funny means that it's at the expense of something. Which is why that it's so very important to learn how to take a joke.

A guy that sees a Yamcha joke and instead of laughing or, at least, seeing the humor in it, says, seriously: "Yamcha doesn't deserve this, he is one the strongest beings on the planet and he is a good guy" is simply not getting it or even ruining the joke/humour.

Now we're personifying humor?

I don't like John Burgmeier's Tenshinhan.

I know this will get me flack, but I don't have strong feelings one way or the other for the original JPN VA for Tenshinhan. I think he's very unmemorable.

[rereboy]

Now we're personifying humor?

By "it" I mean people when they engage in humour. For example, I could have been talking about science and saying that science concerns itself with finding the truth in things, even though it's actually the people doing it and not science as an actual being. Were you going somewhere with that question or was it simply a complaint regarding how I expressed myself?

[ABED]

Now we're personifying humor?

By "it" I mean people when they engage in humour. For example, I could have been talking about science and saying that science concerns itself with finding the truth in things, even though it's actually the people doing it and not science as an actual being. Were you going somewhere with that question or was it simply a complaint regarding how I expressed myself?

A little of both, but the way humor is used depends on the person. Some people are concerned about being fair about who and what they direct humor towards.

[rereboy]

A little of both, but the way humor is used depends on the person. Some people are concerned about being fair about who and what they direct humor towards.

Which is why I stated that someone doing that, in regards to Yamcha for example, is not getting the humour or, in other words, is not finding it funny. Humour is subjective, people won't find everything funny, but humour will always be at the expense of something.

[ABED]

At the expense implies putting something down. Undercutting is fine, depending on the context. I wouldn't say poking fun of my friend's voice spontaneously squeaking is putting him down. It's a fun little jab at something light hearted, but it still depends on context. In the Kuririn example, everyone gets the humor, but they all don't find it funny. Perhaps it's because it's not particular to Kuririn.

[rereboy]

At the expense implies putting something down. Undercutting is fine, depending on the context. I wouldn't say poking fun of my friend's voice spontaneously squeaking is putting him down. It's a fun little jab at something light hearted, but it still depends on context. In the Kuririn example, everyone gets the humor, but they all don't find it funny. Perhaps it's because it's not particular to Kuririn.

It's still at the expense of your friend and his voice. You just didn't have any malice behind it while someone else might have (but in that case the focus would be on being mean rather than humour for humour's sake). If your friend couldn't take any kind of joke at all, he would most likely be sad or not like seeing you laughing regardless of you having malice or not.

The variables here are whether there's any malice or not, and whether people find it funny or can take a joke or not. Being at the expense of something doesn't really change.

[ABED]

Okay, but now it just seems like what you're saying is, "it all depends on context," which was my point in large part. Fairness plays a part. If you are going to chide someone for the same behavior or instance as another character, it can be construed as unfairly holding it against one character and dismissing it in another. What makes the "he dies constantly" more appropriate for Kuririn than Piccolo?

[rereboy]

Okay, but now it just seems like what you're saying is, "it all depends on context," which was my point in large part.

What I'm trying to say is that there's no point in being bothered by people finding something funny when we find it actually unfair or undeserving, or trying to argue against it based on its unfairness. Inherently, humour is about being funny at the expense of something, which doesn't really follow fairness.

Being bothered by people having malice, though? Now that makes more sense, whether it's malice disguised as humour or just malice.

If you are going to chide someone for the same behavior or instance as another character, it can be construed as unfairly holding it against one character and dismissing it in another. What makes the "he dies constantly" more appropriate for Kuririn than Piccolo?

Sure. But it can simply be more funny doing it regarding Krillin than Piccolo. In fact, it can be funny regarding one character and not really funny regarding another because everything (their design, accomplishments, failures, way of talking, behavior, etc) influences whether it's funny or not. It is fair? No. Is it deserving? No. Does it matter from a humour point of view? Not at all.

[ABED]

Okay, but now it just seems like what you're saying is, "it all depends on context," which was my point in large part.

What I'm trying to say is that there's no point in being bothered by people finding something funny when we find it actually unfair or undeserving, or trying to argue against it based on its unfairness. Inherently, humour is about being funny at the expense of something, which doesn't really follow fairness.

Being bothered by people having malice, though? Now that makes more sense, whether it's malice disguised as humour or just malice.

But the thing you are undercutting makes all the difference, which is what I said. Undercutting something can be unfair. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that humor has nothing to do with fairness.

And it can make perfect sense to be bothered by people using humor as a means to show malice or contempt or any other negative feelings. It all depends on the context.

In fact, it can be funny regarding one character and not really funny regarding another because everything (their design, accomplishments, failures, way of talking, behavior, etc) influences whether it's funny or not. It is fair? No. Is it deserving? No. Does it matter from a humour point of view? Not at all.

Of course it can be fair. If both characters die the same number of times, but one goes out like a hero, but the other goes out like a chump, then I do think it's fair to laugh at one over the one who goes out like a hero. If they both die in exactly the same manner, It comes off as biased to knock one and not the other. Someone could be undercutting the good for being the good. It all depends what is being undercut.

[rereboy]

But the thing you are undercutting makes all the difference, which is what I said. Undercutting something can be unfair. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that humor has nothing to do with fairness.

And it can make perfect sense to be bothered by people using humor as a means to show malice or contempt or any other negative feelings. It all depends on the context.

A friend of mine falls down, in a funny way. He doesn't get hurt or anything. I laugh without malice at the situation.

Was it fair that he should be the one to fall instead of the one laughing? Was it fair that he was seen falling? Was it fair that his fall was actually funny, when he could have fallen in a way that wasn't funny but still didn't hurt him? Is me laughing fair regarding anyone who has ever fallen?

No. Nothing about it was fair. The situation was completely at his expense. Yet, it was funny.

Of course, if I or anyone else was purely focusing on how unfair it was, in that case maybe we wouldn't find it funny because we were focusing too much on a negative side for the situation. And that easily happens to the one that falls because he can easily think "why me?". And that is so pretty much for all humour. The three stooges? Just focus on the fact that they are making funny of people with concussions and how unfair it is towards people who have suffered from it. Roshi? Just focus on how dirty it was for him to be that way towards a 16 year old girl and how unfair it is towards people who were molested. A joke based on stereotypes? Just focus on how unfair it is to everyone who has ever suffered some kind of prejudice. And the list goes on and on.

In short, humor is always at the expense of something and the idea of fairness is almost opposite to that. Anyone too concerned with fairness will not find anything funny because all humour is basically unfair regarding something.

[Anime Kitten]

I'm sorry but what Freeza, Broly jokes? And also you're talking about the Goku as a father one right?

Goku: Father, Spirit Bomb, etc
Freeza: Five minutes
Broly: Kakarot
They're all funny, but like any joke (TFS ), they can be overdone sometimes.

It wasn't a learning moment. It was live by the sword, die by the sword. Vegeta progressed, just not in the way you had hoped. I liked his development. It was slow, but made sense.

He didn't progress until #18 beat him, though. His personality didn't change at all between the Ginyu Force fights to before the #18 fight.

[ABED]

He didn't progress until #18 beat him, though. His personality didn't change at all between the Ginyu Force fights to before the #18 fight.

He wouldn't have been able to live on Earth rather peacefully prior the Freeza arc.

Was it fair that he should be the one to fall instead of the one laughing? Was it fair that he was seen falling? Was it fair that his fall was actually funny, when he could have fallen in a way that wasn't funny but still didn't hurt him? Is me laughing fair regarding anyone who has ever fallen?

No. Nothing about it was fair. The situation was completely at his expense. Yet, it was funny.

I'm just shaking my head at this list. This doesn't illustrate fairness. However, I don't think it's fair or good to laugh at someone who fell because they have some serious physical ailment. That's in bad taste. If someone who's perfectly healthy falls down because they were too preoccupied with their smartphone, then I think that's fair game. Both situations could be at a person's expense, but they are two vastly different situations.

In short, humor is always at the expense of something and the idea of fairness is almost opposite to that. Anyone too concerned with fairness will not find anything funny because all humour is basically unfair regarding something.

It's perfectly fair to undercut evil people with humor. Where did you get this idea? I have never heard anyone claim what you have regarding humor.

[Anime Kitten]

He wouldn't have been able to live on Earth rather peacefully prior the Freeza arc.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with this. Of course not prior, but when he along with the others got transported to Earth when they used the Dragon Balls, they openly offered him to stay peacefully. What I didn't like was the way his attitude was. Instead of feeling even a tad convicted or sad, he was exactly the same level of arrogance as just prior to his death. I'm saying that his personality should've started to develop more there instead of waiting until the #18 fight.

[kinisking]

I'm sorry but what Freeza, Broly jokes? And also you're talking about the Goku as a father one right?

Goku: Father, Spirit Bomb, etc
Freeza: Five minutes
Broly: Kakarot
They're all funny, but like any joke (TFS ), they can be overdone sometimes.

It wasn't a learning moment. It was live by the sword, die by the sword. Vegeta progressed, just not in the way you had hoped. I liked his development. It was slow, but made sense.

He didn't progress until #18 beat him, though. His personality didn't change at all between the Ginyu Force fights to before the #18 fight.

Spirit bomb isn't a joke aimed at Goku. Unless there are jokes I'm completely unaware of. I hate the Freeza joke too. Broly jokes are fair considering that's what he says 90 percent of the time. But yeah it's the overuse that gets me the most

[Anime Kitten]

Spirit bomb isn't a joke aimed at Goku. Unless there are jokes I'm completely unaware of.

Usually something along the lines of, "'Hold him off for X time!' Takes an episode and misses." Again, I like the jokes, but as you said, the overuse is what really dampens them. Which is one reason out of a few why I don't watch TFS.

[ABED]

Instead of feeling even a tad convicted or sad, he was exactly the same level of arrogance as just prior to his death. I'm saying that his personality should've started to develop more there instead of waiting until the #18 fight.

He's the same arrogant person he always was, but his actions aren't the same. That shows progress in his personality. You wanted his change to occur a little too fast. For a guy that evil and arrogant, it's too radical a change from simply coming back from the dead.

[Soppa Saia People]

On the whole humor thing, I don't and will never get why people get so upset when someone makes a dumb joke about their favorite character, just seems ridiculous IMO.

[ABED]

On the whole humor thing, I don't and will never get why people get so upset when someone makes a dumb joke about their favorite character, just seems ridiculous IMO.

It depends on what you mean by "dumb".

I take it's for the same reasons people don't like when you knock any artwork they like. What we respond to in the art we like is very personal.