Buu Saga Info

[RandomGuy96]

And again, the guides state he's weaker than even Vegeta pre-ROSAT. Goku's strength was also retconned later in the Buu Saga where he says he could've easily defeated Fat Buu. He's definitely much weaker than Gotenks, but being weaker than SS Gotenks is just going too far. I like to default to the guidebooks judgement on this because the Buu Saga is a mess and the books have Toriyama's stamp of approval.

Interesting. Goku said Pre Rosat Gotenks was superior to himself so I just go with that. I don't get the impression Gotenks is that much stronger than Super Buu , so for them to notice he is powering up I think Buff's power needs to be above at least Gotenks to warrant a comment.

Gotenks was pretty much pulverizing Super Buu when he got serious. Buu's only advantages were unlimited stamina and regeneration. Without those he clearly would've been dead several times over. The increase from Super to Buff is also so tiny that Goku has to question whether or not it actually happened (makes sense, since Super Buu had so little Dai Kaioshin influence to repress him to begin with), making me think that it still didn't make him as strong as Gotenks.

[dbzfan7]

IMO I have Gotenks 8 times stronger then base Goku now so my multipliers for SSj forms work

The guidebooks also have Gohan = Goten which makes Kid Trunks stronger then SSJ Gohan(Gohan says he is stronger in the manga by saying if he keeps slacking off he will fall behind the boys). It also fumbles on if Gohan was SSJ or SSJ2 against Dabra as well. Guide Books are guides. If you want retcon explanations. Goku says a more powerful fighter then him will fight Boo even though he never said that in his fight with Boo. But Toriyama wrote that in anyway.

[Mjb1985]

I think Goku says that a stronger fighter than he will beat Buu. Kuririn also says Isn't Gotenks supposed to be the strongest ? I think he tells Piccolo that he told Buu a stronger fighter would show up.

[dbzfan7]

I think Goku says that a stronger fighter than he will beat Buu. Kuririn also says Isn't Gotenks supposed to be the strongest ? I think he tells Piccolo that he told Buu a stronger fighter would show up.

Goku does say that in a retcon. He never said that to Boo. But Goku still makes that statement.

[Mjb1985]

While Buu is destroying the cities he also questions where the strong guys are. So it either happened off screen or it was a retcon.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, I see him making an offhand remark to Piccolo about telling Boo someone stronger than himself will fight Boo and how happy Boo seemed, which was never said to Majin Boo, anyway lol. Oh, well. Goku said a few odd things there--like Boo being able to copy Vegeta's techniques (something Vegeta never did in the battle, either) and what not.

Best explanation: it's the Boo saga

[dbzfan7]

While Buu is destroying the cities he also questions where the strong guys are. So it either happened off screen or it was a retcon.

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!”
Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…”
Note: Goku actually never told Boo this (apparently he's gone senile in the afterlife)

Goku says it here. I personally have SSJ Gotenks Pre at least around SSJ3 Goku. He would have to be superior to the effort Goku used to stall Fat Boo, or else Goku would sacrifice his sons for no reason.

Piccolo wouldn't condone Gohan to fight Cell before he went SSJ2 and even after he accepted Gohan was above Goku. I'm expected to believe Piccolo is okay with sending the boys to fight Fat Boo without being sure they could win. He doesn't even use the ROSAT to increase the time preparing them supports Gotenks being capable of beating Fat Boo.

[Mjb1985]

Yep. That's it. And that's why I go by Gotenks > Goku.

Either Goku said it off screen or AT retconned it in considering Buu is later seen asking about the strong guys.

And yes I agree with that. Gotenks is at least superior to the effort Goku used against Buu as well as Goku dooming the world to death not making too much sense either.

So at minimum...

Gotenks > Goku ( Vs Buu ) ~ Buu

[dbzfan7]

Yep. That's it. And that's why I go by Gotenks > Goku.

Either Goku said it off screen or AT retconned it in considering Buu is later seen asking about the strong guys.

I personally accept the quote because if he didn't tell Boo that, then what reason would Boo have for not destroying Earth.

I can accept 100% SSJ3 Goku>SSJ Gotenks Pre> SSJ3 Goku(holding back)>Fat Boo. But to have Gotenks weaker then holding back SSJ3 Goku just makes no sense story wise and character wise.

[Kamiccolo9]

Yep. That's it. And that's why I go by Gotenks > Goku.

Either Goku said it off screen or AT retconned it in considering Buu is later seen asking about the strong guys.

I personally accept the quote because if he didn't tell Boo that, then what reason would Boo have for not destroying Earth.

Candy.

[dbzfan7]

Yep. That's it. And that's why I go by Gotenks > Goku.

Either Goku said it off screen or AT retconned it in considering Buu is later seen asking about the strong guys.

I personally accept the quote because if he didn't tell Boo that, then what reason would Boo have for not destroying Earth.

Candy.

He has a whole universe to get candy from. Though I hear store candy is better then his people candy. Maybe he could get Yamcha or Ox King to cook for him since Toriyama recently said they were the best cooks.

[Mjb1985]

Yea that's what I think too. Gotenks should be able to beat Buu at least. He doesn't necessarily have to be stronger than Goku's all out power , but he should definitely be stronger than Buu and what level Goku was fighting at before.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, I'm fine with Super Saiyan Gotenks>Super Saiyan 3 Goku against Majin Boo

I just never subscribed to the notion that Super Saiyan Gotenks has to be much stronger than Goku considering both of them can pull off the same feat (defeating Majin Boo) in battle.

[dbzfan7]

Yea that's what I think too. Gotenks should be able to beat Buu at least. He doesn't necessarily have to be stronger than Goku's all out power , but he should definitely be stronger than Buu and what level Goku was fighting at before.

I agree. I have never ever seen Goku force his sons into something they couldn't handle. Besides, the only gamble was that the boys have to learn fusion in 2 days when Goku himself took a week to learn it.

[Mjb1985]

That's fair. My issue is when describing Goku's ki output , even if his effort is less than maximum , I don't know. I don't think he would be putting out less ki. I think his Ssj3 transformation was pretty intense and I think Piccolo can tell that Goku can win based off of his transformation.

So I go with something like this

Ssj Gotenks > Ssj3 Goku > Ssj3 Goku ( Effort vs Buu ) ~ Buu

[dbzfan7]

That's fair. My issue is when describing Goku's ki output , even if his effort is less than maximum , I don't know. I don't think he would be putting out less ki. I think his Ssj3 transformation was pretty intense and I think Piccolo can tell that Goku can win based off of his transformation.

So I go with something like this

Ssj Gotenks > Ssj3 Goku > Ssj3 Goku ( Effort vs Buu ) ~ Buu

I flip flop where I place Pre SSJ Gotenks. All I know is that he is above the SSJ3 Goku power that was used against Fat Boo. I think Goku flared all his Ki but pulled punches. I'm not sure how you can suppress a form that drains so much ki.

[Mjb1985]

I agree with that. If Goku was able to suppress his ki I would probably go with

Ssj Gotenks ~ Ssj3 Goku ( FP ) > Ssj3 Goku ( Suppressed ) ~ Buu

I just don't think he can suppress his ki at Ssj3 hence Gotenks > Goku.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

There definitely isn't an out right statement by Goku saying Gotenks is stronger than him. The only time he talks about him when he is actually fused is when Goku sees Gotenks fighting Boo as a SSJ3. The only times Goku really implies Gotenks is stronger is when he lied about not being to be able to beat Boo, and says how great the fusion will be without actually seeing it (Though I trust his judgement when it comes to the fusion).

I have SSJ3 Gotenks 8-10 x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, most likely 10.

SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (post) > SSJ3 Goku (Full effort) > SSJ Gotenks (pre) > SSJ3 Goku (first appearance).

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think power output is key, but I think one doesn't fully grasp another's power until the guy starts fighting seriously. Piccolo did question why he didn't try and even asked if his power was going down--so I'd like to think he just didn't have a complete understanding of Super Saiyan 3's capabilities.

Either way, Super Saiyan Gotenks has to be pretty powerful to challenge Boo, so.

[Mjb1985]

The other guy posted the quote. It's up above. I think Piccolo did grasp Goku's power hence why he wondered why he didn't finish the job.