SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

[hleV]

...I don't see why "the others" couldn't include Goku.

Because one does not simply put Vegeta over Goku, unless it's needed.

[RandomGuy96]

Still not seeing why "the others" can't include Goku. The line itself is crap, but that part just seems like a weaselly way of saying he's stronger than Goku, like when the Daizenshuu said Gohan had more hidden power and potential than any pure saiyan.

And going by the other Daizenshuu line about Goten, pre-ROSAT Gotenks would be stronger than Gohan, even if it was just pure addition. So the only others that the line could possibly be referring to are Goku and Buu.

[Mjb1985]

I would have preferred a .

Gotenks was at least on par with Goku and post Rosat greatly surpassed him.

[The Monkey King]

Roughly 10x imo.

[Mjb1985]

Yea going by official boosts 10x seems to be a solid placement for Gotenks over Goku.

[mAcChaos]

Speaking of Gotenks, I was wondering something just now.

Buu can control the powers of people who he has absorbed.

Does that mean he would be able to have Goten and Trunks fuse back into Gotenks somehow after the rest period was over?

[Draken]

Speaking of Gotenks, I was wondering something just now.

Buu can control the powers of people who he has absorbed.

Does that mean he would be able to have Goten and Trunks fuse back into Gotenks somehow after the rest period was over?

Unless he can make them move and dance in perfect unison inside of him, no...

[RandomGuy96]

He can go inside himself, rip them out, wake them up, and make them under threat of torture.

[Hitiro]

Pre-RoSaT

Base Goten: 1,500,000
Base Trunks: 1,500,000

Base Gotenks: (1,500,000 + 1,500,000) * 10 = 30,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 1,500,000,000

Base Vegeta: 6,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 300,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 600,000,000

Post-RoSaT

Base Goten: 3,750,000 (2.5 * increase over Pre-RoSaT)
Base Trunks: 3,750,000 (2.5 * increase over Pre-RoSaT)

Base Gotenks: (3,750,000 + 3,750,000) * 10 = 75,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 3,750,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 30,000,000,000

SSJ3 Goku: 6,000,000 * 400 = 2,400,000,000

^ I think this is a fair enough estimate in their differences in power. Gotenks is 12.5x stronger than SSJ3 Goku here. SSJ Gotenks is more strong enough to put up a fight against Fat Boo with being a bit stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. Obviously the battle powers are just examples. I don't honestly believe Goku and Vegeta are only 2x stronger than Namek Goku. They are just easy numbers to work with.

Edit:- Realised my mistake, lol. Though the numbers didn't add up for Pre-RoSaT Base Gotenks. XD

[Mjb1985]

I agree with your placement of Post Rosat Gotenks but I think you are selling Pre Rosat Gotenks short. He should at least be on Goku's level imo.

[Hitiro]

I agree with your placement of Post Rosat Gotenks but I think you are selling Pre Rosat Gotenks short. He should at least be on Goku's level imo.

Well Goku picked Fat Boo apart while not using his full power. I feel that SSJ Gotenks could do a good job against Fat Boo but still be under SSJ3 Goku. In my opinion, Goku wasn't trying too hard and I feel he was only fighting at 50% of his strength against Fat Boo. So SSJ3 Goku's inital battle power would be 1,875,000,000. That would make a 375,000,000 difference between their powers. That is just a 0.25 difference between them.

[Mjb1985]

I don't see how Goku could be suppressed, he could barely pull off the form let alone control it to that degree. And Buu have him an even fight after the initial attack.

[Kaboom]

It's not so much about being suppressed, and more about "not trying very hard." We've seen evidence time and again that the amount of effort one puts into using their power can change how that power is sensed.

[Mjb1985]

Yes I can agree with that. Goku definitely wasn't going all out as stated by himself. But Buu wasn't going all out either. Considering Piccolo needed to even ask if Goku could have won suggests that Goku isn't above Buu by leaps and bounds. He's superior sure, but dramatically so? I don't think so.

[Hitiro]

Yes I can agree with that. Goku definitely wasn't going all out as stated by himself. But Buu wasn't going all out either. Considering Piccolo needed to even ask if Goku could have won suggests that Goku isn't above Buu by leaps and bounds. He's superior sure, but dramatically so? I don't think so.

Well I don't think it was that Boo wasn't going full out. I think he can't go full out period. We saw over the course of the manga that the only times Fat Boo was any threat is when he got angry as he tapped into more of Pure Boo's power. He does undergo a few powerups in the story due to getting angry. But I think he was at the limit when he was fighting Goku. One more push to make him angry and I think the Pure Evil Boo would have shown up.

[mAcChaos]

Yes I can agree with that. Goku definitely wasn't going all out as stated by himself. But Buu wasn't going all out either. Considering Piccolo needed to even ask if Goku could have won suggests that Goku isn't above Buu by leaps and bounds. He's superior sure, but dramatically so? I don't think so.

Well I don't think it was that Boo wasn't going full out. I think he can't go full out period. We saw over the course of the manga that the only times Fat Boo was any threat is when he got angry as he tapped into more of Pure Boo's power. He does undergo a few powerups in the story due to getting angry. But I think he was at the limit when he was fighting Goku. One more push to make him angry and I think the Pure Evil Boo would have shown up.

I don't think Pure Evil Boo showed up just because Fat Buu got angry.

If it was just a matter of anger, Fat Buu would have powered up like usual and that would be it. During the time he was fighting SSJ3 Goku, he had no problem with killing so he could satisfy all those evil urges.

The problem came later when he was trying to honor his vow to not kill. He wanted to kill so bad, but he wanted to honor his promise too, so he basically ended up splitting so he could do both.

[Hitiro]

Yes I can agree with that. Goku definitely wasn't going all out as stated by himself. But Buu wasn't going all out either. Considering Piccolo needed to even ask if Goku could have won suggests that Goku isn't above Buu by leaps and bounds. He's superior sure, but dramatically so? I don't think so.

Well I don't think it was that Boo wasn't going full out. I think he can't go full out period. We saw over the course of the manga that the only times Fat Boo was any threat is when he got angry as he tapped into more of Pure Boo's power. He does undergo a few powerups in the story due to getting angry. But I think he was at the limit when he was fighting Goku. One more push to make him angry and I think the Pure Evil Boo would have shown up.

I don't think Pure Evil Boo showed up just because Fat Buu got angry.

If it was just a matter of anger, Fat Buu would have powered up like usual and that would be it. During the time he was fighting SSJ3 Goku, he had no problem with killing so he could satisfy all those evil urges.

The problem came later when he was trying to honor his vow to not kill. He wanted to kill so bad, but he wanted to honor his promise too, so he basically ended up splitting so he could do both.

I don't know to be honest. I've always seen it as a "Once he powers up so much from anger his anger will peak and be released." kind of thing.

[Draken]

Yes I can agree with that. Goku definitely wasn't going all out as stated by himself. But Buu wasn't going all out either. Considering Piccolo needed to even ask if Goku could have won suggests that Goku isn't above Buu by leaps and bounds. He's superior sure, but dramatically so? I don't think so.

Well I don't think it was that Boo wasn't going full out. I think he can't go full out period. We saw over the course of the manga that the only times Fat Boo was any threat is when he got angry as he tapped into more of Pure Boo's power. He does undergo a few powerups in the story due to getting angry. But I think he was at the limit when he was fighting Goku. One more push to make him angry and I think the Pure Evil Boo would have shown up.

I really doubt it, Fat Buu was happy and not at all pushed to the limit while fighting Goku.

[Hitiro]

I really doubt it, Fat Buu was happy and not at all pushed to the limit while fighting Goku.

Fat Boo was definitely struggling against SSJ3 Goku. And unlike Goku, Fat Boo isn't the sort of character to hold back if it isn't hurting his opponent. At that point Fat Boo was in the frame of mind that torturing his opponent is the most fun thing to do. So Fat Boo would at least be trying to hurt SSJ3 Goku, something he could not do because Goku was, all around, better than him. Fat Boo is not a martial artist either so he does not have the level of control Goku has when it comes to holding back. I honestly think Fat Boo was trying to injure Goku because that was the only form of pleasure he knows.

[Draken]

I really doubt it, Fat Buu was happy and not at all pushed to the limit while fighting Goku.

Fat Boo was definitely struggling against SSJ3 Goku. And unlike Goku, Fat Boo isn't the sort of character to hold back if it isn't hurting his opponent. At that point Fat Boo was in the frame of mind that torturing his opponent is the most fun thing to do. So Fat Boo would at least be trying to hurt SSJ3 Goku, something he could not do because Goku was, all around, better than him. Fat Boo is not a martial artist either so he does not have the level of control Goku has when it comes to holding back. I honestly think Fat Boo was trying to injure Goku because that was the only form of pleasure he knows.

Did you not read the battle? Buu was like jumping all over the place and smiling and laughing and etc, Goku was giving him a good fun match. Now compare that with Vegeta or even base Gotenks.