Noah wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:Why do you assume that Good Boo is the same as Mr. Boo? Grey Boo wasn't the same as Pure Boo, so this split is obviously different than that one.
Where did you get that?
I said that Mr. Boo (Good) is weaker than the Boo (Fat) that outclassed Dabura because of the division, and that you can argue that either Grey Boo has the same power or is a little bit stronger than Mr. Boo.
I got it from that statement you just made. You're assuming that the Buu that fought Pure Buu is the same as the one who fought Grey Buu. Unless Pure Buu and Grey Buu are equal, which doesn't seem to be the case in your eyes, that doesn't make sense.
apex_pretador wrote:
As I already mentioned in the other thread, buu can one-shot 1st FF even if he's buuhan level (By candy beam).
No he can't. It's been shown before that even if you're only moderately stronger than Buu, you can deflect or dodge the Candy Beam at point blank range. They weren't relying on that.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:They should also know that it takes a while for Freeza to transform and they can just blitz him first. They weren't considering his other forms.
Again, it wasn't just Tenshinhan freaking out. Gohan and Piccolo were freaking out before they even physically saw Freeza; right after Tenshinhan and Piccolo comment on how huge Freeza's ki is, Gohan makes this face:
I wouldn't take the Tagoma incident to mean anything, unless SS Gohan also was stronger than the same 1st form Freeza that was kicking his ass.
It's illogical for them to not consider Freeza's other forms.It's not like the Freeza that they know is exactly the same as before.
Why would they consider other forms before they even saw them and when they know they can just bumrush him because it takes a while for him to transform?
Future Trunks is the only character who attacks while the character is powering up/transforming. Other cases was just characters standing there and doing nothing,so i wouldn't be surprised if the same thing will happen in a hypothetical scenario.
This is a very lame excuse that relies on genre conventions rather than in-universe logic. Ignoring the fact that people other than Trunks DO do this (Goku attacked Recoome while he was charging his attack, for example) it's never implied at any point in this scene that the gang would sit there and let Freeza transform.
Tenshinhan,Kuririn and co. are the only ones who was really shown to be freaking out.We saw Gohan's reaction many times in the series to other characters and those aren't enormous power gaps,it's more like a worried/nervous reaction.
No, Gohan is pretty clearly freaking out. "Worried/nervous" is the look he gets IMMEDIATELY after sensing Freeza's ki. It's very apparent that what he's sensing is something he can't handle.
Freeza can alter his ki anytime without no one noticing.Goku is altering from 5,000 to 60,000 on Namek without everyone noticing.Not to mention Gohan was just standing there doing nothing,so even if we say Freeza is below than SS Gohan when suppressed,Freeza can still kick his ass.
That doesn't make any sense. He can't be both stronger than Gohan
and strong enough to easily kick his ass.
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
He just did finger beams. He never exerted himself, nor did he power-up once.
Why do you think that makes any difference? Did I miss the part where it's said that finger beams are a special attack that doesn't require you to actually be at a level where you'd be capable of harming your opponent for them to work?
The situation is nowhere near the same.
It's almost exactly the same. We have a character saying something, the character's statement being backed up by another one later, no one contradicting the character, and the narrative never treating the character's statement as unreliable, yet people still try to contrive an explanation about why the character was wrong anyway despite the complete lack of any kind of evidence that the character was sensing a "suppressed" level. In this case, it's worse, because we actually
see Freeza use enough power to easily put down Gohan, and you still insist he was somehow suppressed to a level below Tagoma the whole time.
There was never a reason for Freeza to not be suppressed. The only thing he does is shoot finger beams at Gohan.
Which requires him to not be suppressed. Given that he was never noted to change his power at any point, and given that his ki had Gohan panicking from the moment he sensed it, it's very clear that he wasn't suppressed.
It's quite simply really. Gohan could tell immediately that he had no chance against Freeza, even when Freeza was doing nothing but sitting in his ship. It's
impossible for his ki in that instance to be below Tagoma's. It
is possible that it wasn't his full power anyway, but that's extremely unlikely and has no evidence supporting it. None.
He never powered-up because there was never a reason to. You're basically assuming he just powered-up for the hell of it despite this being implied nowhere.
No, I'm assuming he powered up to beat up Gohan. Or, rather, I'm assuming he didn't power up at any point and was at full power the entire time, hence why everyone was so afraid, but just offering that as an alternate explanation.
So what you're saying is it's not possible for someone to be giving off any Chi and yet still be suppressed?
No, I'm saying there's a clear difference between being suppressed and having a high power level and just not making any effort to "show it off". The people close to you can tell how strong you are regardless, but people far away can't unless you "flex". This is why SS3 Goku grabbed everyone's attention in a way that the much, much stronger Gohan (plus Buu and Gotenks) didn't (when Gohan first transforms into his ultimate form, Goku comments on his enormous ki while standing right in front of him, but the gang on Earth doesn't notice; when Goku powered up as SS3, Kaioshin and Kibito in the other realm instantly took notice). This is why Tagoma powering up grabbed Goten and Trunks' attention, while Freeza displaying a power level much higher than that while just sitting down didn't.
It's also why Gohan "flexing" grabbed more attention than Freeza firing beams, even though the power level Freeza had in that moment was without a doubt greater than anything Tagoma and Gohan could muster.
So in other words, Goku quickly locking onto Gohan's power and not Freeza's would mean Freeza isn't actually revealing all of his power. That's pretty much the point.
No, it doesn't. It means that a weaker person's ki can be more noticeable than a stronger person's. Unless you're going to try to say that Freeza was much weaker than Gohan
while he was beating him up and displaying a readable battle power sufficient to make Gohan freak out.
But it was. At least to a point where it stood out more than his.
As already noted, standing out more doesn't mean it's higher. Unless, again, you're going to try to say that Gohan was not only scared of a power far below his, but that Freeza vs Gohan was actually Freeza beating up someone far stronger than him.
Note that Gohan outright says that Freeza is stronger than him when they first meet. He wasn't suppressed
then.
Everything doesn't need to be stated. Krillin said he never imagined Freeza's power was so incredible after he finished doing his power-up on Namek. There's no reason to assume he'd function any differently now. We're given no indication that Freeza ever powered-up or exerted himself whatsoever, so the simple conclusion is he wasn't at full-power.
No, that's not the simple conclusion. The simple conclusion is that he
was at full power, since we as the audience are never given a reason to believe he isn't, no one contradicts Krillin's earlier statement, and none of the power he displays in that form is
beyond what the heroes initially estimated (i.e. "his ki is enormous [Tenshinhan], Buu can handle him [Krillin], but Gohan has no chance [Gohan]"). It's all very straightforward, unusually so for Super.
