Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Khin]

SSG Goku should be stronger than Rageta,and he should be somewhere around 1% to 7% of Beerus.If Base Goku is equal to SSG,then SS Goku will be stronger than Beerus.

[Chiki]

If you reject the two base theory, then let me rephrase the argument for you:

Cabba isn't SS3 tier. He's equal to Base Vegeta who is equal to Base Goku who was weaker than FF Frost. So Buu > FF Frost > Base Cabba. Buu is SS2/low SS3 tier so FF Frost is weaker than that and so is Base Cabba.

If he is one of the strongest guys barring Goku, Vegeta and Monaka, then my argument is right since Piccolo did well against FF Frost.

He is.Base Goku and Vegeta in RoF was more or less on par with Final Form Freeza who in his first form should be at the very very very least as strong as SS Gohan in RoF.

Being one of the strongest doesn't mean he IS the strongest.When it comes to powerscaling,i follow the manga more than the anime because it's more consistent.Piccolo just got strong,that's all.When Goku said they are not going to leave Buu out,they were at Beerus' place,so they shouldn't know how strong current Piccolo is.You could say that Cabba sensing SSB Vegeta was only in the anime,but we don't know if its also going to be in the manga.

First Form to 100% Final Form gives a 120000000/500000=x240 boost. SS to SSJ3 is a x8 power boost. If Frieza got a x240 boost from first form then this is impossible. Since Piccolo is weaker than First Form Frieza you're saying that Piccolo got an over x240 boost from RoF to Champa Arc. Ok then!

[namekiansaiyan]

If you reject the two base theory, then let me rephrase the argument for you:

Cabba isn't SS3 tier. He's equal to Base Vegeta who is equal to Base Goku who was weaker than FF Frost. So Buu > FF Frost > Base Cabba. Buu is SS2/low SS3 tier so FF Frost is weaker than that and so is Base Cabba.

If he is one of the strongest guys barring Goku, Vegeta and Monaka, then my argument is right since Piccolo did well against FF Frost.

He is.Base Goku and Vegeta in RoF was more or less on par with Final Form Freeza who in his first form should be at the very very very least as strong as SS Gohan in RoF.

Being one of the strongest doesn't mean he IS the strongest.When it comes to powerscaling,i follow the manga more than the anime because it's more consistent.Piccolo just got strong,that's all.When Goku said they are not going to leave Buu out,they were at Beerus' place,so they shouldn't know how strong current Piccolo is.You could say that Cabba sensing SSB Vegeta was only in the anime,but we don't know if its also going to be in the manga.

First Form to 100% Final Form gives a 120000000/500000=x240 boost. SS to SSJ3 is a x8 power boost. If Frieza got a x240 boost from first form then this is impossible. Since Piccolo is weaker than First Form Frieza you're saying that Piccolo got an over x240 boost from RoF to Champa Arc. Ok then!

If Piccolo was not near Frost how did he compete the way he did.

[apex_pretador]

SSG Goku should be stronger than Rageta,and he should be somewhere around 1% to 7% of Beerus.If Base Goku is equal to SSG,then SS Goku will be stronger than Beerus.

actually, shouldn't goku (everyone's ki) be stronger than rageta?
Then initial SSG should be wayyyyy above that.
Then SSG (FP) should be much stronger than that.

[Khin]

First Form to 100% Final Form gives a 120000000/500000=x240 boost. SS to SSJ3 is a x8 power boost. If Frieza got a x240 boost from first form then this is impossible. Since Piccolo is weaker than First Form Frieza you're saying that Piccolo got an over x240 boost from RoF to Champa Arc. Ok then!

Piccolo is known as a guy who had random big gains.He got like 10x to 100x stronger in only 6 days in Freeza Arc.So Piccolo getting that strong in 8 months shouldn't be that far-fetched.Plus,we don't know if Freeza's boost from his forms is the same as before,at the very least,i'd put it a 100x boost to his first form.

[apex_pretador]

Freeza doesn't need to suppress his power that much.
He also never buffed up.

There is nothing contradicting a 10x gain for freeza by transforming.

[Chiki]

If Piccolo was not near Frost how did he compete the way he did.

Frost is stronger than Namek Frieza but not by much. RoF Final Form Frieza is a little below post-SSG Base Goku level.

Piccolo is known as a guy who had random big gains.He got like 10x to 100x stronger in only 6 days in Freeza Arc.So Piccolo getting that strong in 8 months shouldn't be that far-fetched.Plus,we don't know if Freeza's boost from his forms is the same as before,at the very least,i'd put it a 100x boost to his first form.

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

[Bullza]

SSG Goku should be stronger than Rageta,and he should be somewhere around 1% to 7% of Beerus.If Base Goku is equal to SSG,then SS Goku will be stronger than Beerus.

Oh yeah that's a good point.

Between SSJ boosting their power 50 fold, SSJB being possibly at least 9 times stronger than SSJ and then Kaioken boosting SSJB's power a further 10 fold then it'd make Base/SSJG Goku significantly under 1% of Beerus' power which obviously wouldn't be the intention.

Alright then, back to Base Goku being SSJ3 tier+ (which I prefer).

[Khin]

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

That's not how it works.PIccolo got power boost for plot reasons,the same how he got magically stronger on Namek in 6 days.Gains in the series have been always inconsistent.

[apex_pretador]

Piccolo is known as a guy who had random big gains.He got like 10x to 100x stronger in only 6 days in Freeza Arc.So Piccolo getting that strong in 8 months shouldn't be that far-fetched.Plus,we don't know if Freeza's boost from his forms is the same as before,at the very least,i'd put it a 100x boost to his first form.

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

super buu won't allow it to happen, and no gohan to train with here.

Also, potential varies with time.
How come his power with 5 years training didn't even double (BoZ) and in 11 months, he was able to power-up many times over?

How come gohan gets not even noticeable boost after 3 year piccolo-goku-gohan training and in 10 months he gets a boost literally 1000x over?

[Chiki]

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

That's not how it works.PIccolo got power boost for plot reasons,the same how he got magically stronger on Namek in 6 days.Gains in the series have been always inconsistent.

He got magically stronger on Namek in 6 days? I don't even know what you're referring to.

And there's evidence that he didn't even get that stronger: Buu is considered by Goku to be one of the top choices, implying that he would probably defeat everyone in the U6 team easily except Hit.

Super buu won't allow it to happen, and no gohan to train with here.

Also, potential varies with time.
How come his power with 5 years training didn't even double (BoZ) and in 11 months, he was able to power-up many times over?

How come gohan gets not even noticeable boost after 3 year piccolo-goku-gohan training and in 10 months he gets a boost literally 1000x over?

So if he trained with Gotenks for a year instead because Super Buu was sleeping for a day or two, do you really think Piccolo could just come out and own Buu like nothing? That completely ruins the idea of Buu being a threat during the Buu arc.

Also Piccolo was in the time chamber for a year and he got only got a small power boost, not enough to compete with Perfect Cell. Why should training with Gohan be such an amazing training tool that it allows him to compete with RoF Final Form Frieza?

[dbgtFO]

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

That's not how it works.PIccolo got power boost for plot reasons,the same how he got magically stronger on Namek in 6 days.Gains in the series have been always inconsistent.

At what point did Super's plot require Piccolo to get stronger?

[namekiansaiyan]

If Piccolo was not near Frost how did he compete the way he did.

Frost is stronger than Namek Frieza but not by much. RoF Final Form Frieza is a little below post-SSG Base Goku level.

Piccolo is known as a guy who had random big gains.He got like 10x to 100x stronger in only 6 days in Freeza Arc.So Piccolo getting that strong in 8 months shouldn't be that far-fetched.Plus,we don't know if Freeza's boost from his forms is the same as before,at the very least,i'd put it a 100x boost to his first form.

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

If Frost is a little stronger than Namek Frieza then Piccolo one shots Frost.

[Chiki]

If Piccolo was not near Frost how did he compete the way he did.

Frost is stronger than Namek Frieza but not by much. RoF Final Form Frieza is a little below post-SSG Base Goku level.

Piccolo is known as a guy who had random big gains.He got like 10x to 100x stronger in only 6 days in Freeza Arc.So Piccolo getting that strong in 8 months shouldn't be that far-fetched.Plus,we don't know if Freeza's boost from his forms is the same as before,at the very least,i'd put it a 100x boost to his first form.

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

If Frost is a little stronger than Namek Frieza then Piccolo one shots Frost.

By "a little" I mean Frost is around Cell Junior maybe even SPC level.

[Khin]

- He got magically stronger on Namek in 6 days? I don't even know what you're referring to.
- And there's evidence that he didn't even get that stronger: Buu is considered by Goku to be one of the top choices, implying that he would probably defeat everyone in the U6 team easily except Hit.

- Piccolo considered himself worthy enough to be some help against First Form Freeza,Nail was astonished by his power.This is the same guy who got stomped by Nappa not too long ago.
- Again.Goku had no idea how strong the U6 guys will turn out.He said so himself.

Episode 32
Context : Goku and Vegeta are training in the RoSaT and Goku wonders what kind of guy Monaka is.
Vegeta : "He on our team.Focus on the matches."
Goku : "But we don't know if the guys from Universe 6 are gonna be strong or not"

At what point did Super's plot require Piccolo to get stronger?

Yes because he would be humiliated badly if he didn't.

[dbgtFO]

At what point did Super's plot require Piccolo to get stronger?

Yes because he would be humiliated badly if he didn't

You have no proof of that.

[Khin]

You have no proof of that.

Piccolo fights after Goku.And even if we say Piccolo fights Botamo first and somehow manages to win.He goes off to face Frost,once Frost decides not to fuck around and transforms into his 3rd Form,Piccolo would get beaten to a pulp.

[dbgtFO]

You have no proof of that.

Piccolo fights after Goku.And even if we say Piccolo fights Botamo first and somehow manages to win.He goes off to face Frost,once Frost decides not to fuck around and transforms into his 3rd Form,Piccolo would get beaten to a pulp.

Nope, because Piccolo is the strategist of Universe 7, so overwhelming power is apparently irrelevant.

[apex_pretador]

Super buu won't allow it to happen, and no gohan to train with here.

Also, potential varies with time.
How come his power with 5 years training didn't even double (BoZ) and in 11 months, he was able to power-up many times over?

How come gohan gets not even noticeable boost after 3 year piccolo-goku-gohan training and in 10 months he gets a boost literally 1000x over?

So if he trained with Gotenks for a year instead because Super Buu was sleeping for a day or two, do you really think Piccolo could just come out and own Buu like nothing? That completely ruins the idea of Buu being a threat during the Buu arc.

Also Piccolo was in the time chamber for a year and he got only got a small power boost, not enough to compete with Perfect Cell. Why should training with Gohan be such an amazing training tool that it allows him to compete with RoF Final Form Frieza?

See the highlighted part.
He didn't get a "small" boost in time chamber. His one visit , without a sparring partner, was able to push him from a level fodder to IMPERFECT cell to surpassing #16, Semi cell (initial), Semi cell (FP), SS vegeta, ASS vegeta, and very likely initial PC , and fight against cell jrs and not getting destroyed.

Yes it is far-fetched, because if you're right then Piccolo could have soloed Super Buu if he went into the Room of Spirit and Time for a year. Not happening.

That's not how it works.PIccolo got power boost for plot reasons,the same how he got magically stronger on Namek in 6 days.Gains in the series have been always inconsistent.

At what point did Super's plot require Piccolo to get stronger?

you can consider piccolo "just" got faster. It explains everything. Although it is a bit weird, but still.

[Khin]

Nope, because Piccolo is the strategist of Universe 7, so overwhelming power is apparently irrelevant.

The gap between Piccolo and Frost [In the actual fight] isn't ridiculously big as Piccolo was able to put up a good fight,especially in the manga where i vastly prefer powerscaling-wise.If he didn't get a powerup,I really don't see Piccolo being able to do something against a guy over 10x stronger than him,dude was hopeless even against Nappa and 3rd Form Freeza.