Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
sintzu wrote:Based on what he said a few months ago it's very possible he'll end up defeating him.
Toriyama only said that he'd like to see Vegeta have a main role. We don't know if that's what will happen. Even if he is the main focus (which is likely), that doesn't mean he will be the one to defeat Freeza, or that Freeza will even *be* defeated. For all we know, something big could happen, and this could have a cliffhanger ending.
It's fine to speculate, but don't assert an opinion as "obvious" fact. You're jumping to conclusions based off of one poster and one screenshot of Goku's injuries.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:He doesn't have to be Goku's equal, or anything like that.
He wouldn't be where he is on the poster if he wasn't equal to him.
I'm done with this. Either look at one of the dozen posts made by several people who have answered this, or continue going on and arguing about nothing with nothing backing you up.
FatNagger69 wrote:Toriyama only said that he'd like to see Vegeta have a main role. We don't know if that's what will happen. Even if he is the main focus (which is likely), that doesn't mean he will be the one to defeat Freeza.
I know we don't so that's why I said it was possible and not 100% what's going to happen.
IF Frieza does get defeated (I doubt he'll kill him off) then I think there's a very high chance that it'll be Vegeta who does it cause Toriyama gave each of the 5 stories he wrote a very different ending from each other so I doubt he'll have Goku do it cause he already did it before plus he let someone other then Goku defeat a main villain so there's no reason to not think he'll do it again.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Their spot in the poster does not imply at all that they are on equal footing; it just shows that they will both play an equally important role in the story. However, the fact that their uniforms share a similar symbol does imply they are being trained by the same master, and one can't help but assume that they are, thus, now equals. I mean, Vegeta did momentarily surpass Goku in BoG, so I don't see why he wouldn't be at his level now...
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Gaffer Tape wrote:I just got done with a re-watch/re-read of the Freeza arc, and I have to say, the thought of Vegeta possibly getting his chance to kill Freeza in this movie terrifies me a bit. I think it would be a great disservice to a character who was already mishandled quite a bit in later parts of the story. Vegeta losing to Freeza was one of the best character moments in the series. Out of all the pointless transformations and power-ups during that battle, Vegeta's was the only one that really had any weight. The fact that his didn't amount to anything, unlike all the others, which were just there for cheap drama, was an integral part of the story. Everything he had been working for had been for nothing. All of the scheming and cheating of death he'd managed to accomplish all throughout the arc had brought him to this moment... where he could do nothing but fail, and he finally had to face his own inadequacies for the first time. To borrow from Star Trek, it was Vegeta's Kobayashi Maru. And in the end, in his last moments, he was forced to swallow his pride and insist that someone he hated pick up his torch instead. What an amazing, powerful moment. And while a lot of what comes after tends to undo that development, I think it would substantially cheapen all of that to have Vegeta now get to smack Freeza around. And all for the sake of fanservice. For the sake of Vegeta getting to do something "cool."
I agree with this. I'd be more on board with Vegeta beating Freeza if well...he wasn't a complete asshole before. I mean Freeza controlled Vegeta's life early on, but Vegeta was still an evil dick and would be a bad person with or without Freeza. Even when good now, I wouldn't feel satisfied if Vegeta killed him here as Vegeta deserved to be treated poorly as that's how he treated others. He was ruthless and cold blooded too so this redemption doesn't mean much to me. Maybe if a villain had took Bulma to be his wife and the conflict centered around his family and him saving her...I'd be all for it there for Vegeta to get his due....but here...I'm not feeling it.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Their spot in the poster does not imply at all that they are on equal footing; it just shows that they will both play an equally important role in the story. However, the fact that their uniforms share a similar symbol does imply they are being trained by the same master, and one can't help but assume that they are, thus, now equals. I mean, Vegeta did momentarily surpass Goku in BoG, so I don't see why he wouldn't be at his level now...
Goku and Krillin had the same symbols while training under the same master, and they weren't equal.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Their spot in the poster does not imply at all that they are on equal footing; it just shows that they will both play an equally important role in the story. However, the fact that their uniforms share a similar symbol does imply they are being trained by the same master, and one can't help but assume that they are, thus, now equals. I mean, Vegeta did momentarily surpass Goku in BoG, so I don't see why he wouldn't be at his level now...
Goku and Krillin had the same symbols while training under the same master, and they weren't equal.
I knew someone would point this out. Come on... you can't compare a human to a saiyan. This is Vegeta we're talking about. Goku has had access to special training his whole life that has allowed him to surpass Vegeta, but if that wasn't the case, they'd always be equals or close. If Vegeta became a SSJG off-screen (very easy task to do) and now has the same training as Goku, there is no reason they should not be equals in this movie.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
fadeddreams5 wrote: Goku has had access to special training his whole life that has allowed him to surpass Vegeta, but if that wasn't the case, they'd always be equals or close.
Equal ? He would be nothing without all the special training he's gotten and even with all that Vegeta without any kind of training has manged to keep up with him.
Yet for some reason no one brings this up.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
dbzfan7 wrote: I wouldn't feel satisfied if Vegeta killed him.
I think it would be a bad idea to have him be killed by anyone this early.
At the very least he should keep him alive for 1 or 2 more movies.
Dunno if Freeza should be around for more movies after this. Unless he leads to something much bigger than him.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote: I wouldn't feel satisfied if Vegeta killed him.
I think it would be a bad idea to have him be killed by anyone this early.
At the very least he should keep him alive for 1 or 2 more movies.
Dunno if Freeza should be around for more movies after this. Unless he leads to something much bigger than him.
That's my only hope too. I rather believe that Freeza will not appear once again to have a second death sooner or later, but something which couldn't have occured without him. Maybe a gate to other worlds/realities.
Last edited by Low Tone G on Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
Kamiccolo9 wrote:He doesn't have to be Goku's equal, or anything like that.
He wouldn't be where he is on the poster if he wasn't equal to him.
You mean like how 4th and 5th form Coola are "equal"?
Last edited by The Tori-bot on Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Herms wrote:Really, you could translate either title either way and nobody would care. But God would know.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Goku has had access to special training his whole life that has allowed him to surpass Vegeta, but if that wasn't the case, they'd always be equals or close.
Equal ? He would be nothing without all the special training he's gotten and even with all that Vegeta without any kind of training has manged to keep up with him.
Yet for some reason no one brings this up.
Maybe because when they were training on equal terms, for example in The Room of Spirit and Time, Goku became more powerful than Vegeta after the year they spent in there. Vegeta even spent another year and he still wasn't as powerful.
dbzfan7 wrote: I wouldn't feel satisfied if Vegeta killed him.
I think it would be a bad idea to have him be killed by anyone this early.
At the very least he should keep him alive for 1 or 2 more movies.
Dunno if Freeza should be around for more movies after this. Unless he leads to something much bigger than him.
It would be pretty weird to bring him back just to kill him off. The 13 movies prior to Battle of Gods all ended with the bad guy getting killed, with the exception of Coola/Broli. It'd be a shame to go back to that boring formula.
The only way I can see him getting out of it alive is if he somehow succeeded Beerus as God of Destruction.
I still want to know what about this movie's script impressed Torishima. And I'm still curious about the usage of the little-used in DB "despair/zetsubou". Makes me think there's still more to all this we don't know yet.
sintzu wrote:Equal ? He would be nothing without all the special training he's gotten and even with all that Vegeta without any kind of training has manged to keep up with him.
Yet for some reason no one brings this up.
Maybe because when they were training on equal terms, for example in The Room of Spirit and Time, Goku became more powerful than Vegeta after the year they spent in there. Vegeta even spent another year and he still wasn't as powerful.
That's a really good point. Goku trained much smarter than Vegeta did.
