New Animation VS Old Animation

[MrWalnut4]

Since we've beaten to death how the animation is abysmal at times in episode 5, I decided to pull a few screenshots from decent to well-drawn scenes from the same episode.






I'm getting tired of people just ripping on the new animation like it's some kind of cancer. Even in what is arguably the worst animated episode of modern Dragon Ball, there is still well-drawn animation. People aren't even talking about how parts of the SSJ3 fight are actually pretty fluid and pleasing to watch. I'm not denying that modern animation has it's flaws and often times falls short of expectations, but come on people: give credit where credit is due. It becomes difficult to have meaningful conversation about things like this when there is so much toxicity around the subject. I'm also not saying that people who don't like the new animation are wrong, but when there are people who just add negativity without substance to the conversation, it makes me (and probably others) not want to even share their opinions about it.

[sintzu]

Hopefully goku ssjgod vs beerus looks better.

It'll be the fight that makes or breaks this show so hopefully they do it right.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Hopefully goku ssjgod vs beerus looks better.

It'll be the fight that makes or breaks this show so hopefully they do it right.

It can survive if the fight sucks.

[sintzu]

It can survive if the fight sucks.

But for how long ? how many bad fights can a franchise known for it's good fights take before fans stop caring about it ? especially if each arc has a movie counterpart that's better in every way ?

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

It can survive if the fight sucks.

But for how long ? how many bad fights can a franchise known for it's good fights take before fans stop caring about it ? especially if each arc has a movie counterpart that's better in every way ?

Well DBZ used to b known for great animation and it hasn't had 1 good animated episode since the last one in GT. It can survive by fanboys being blinde and in denial. That's how SpongeBob survived not being funny for over 10 years.

Super is good,but crap next to GT.

[VintageSaiyan]

Since we've beaten to death how the animation is abysmal at times in episode 5, I decided to pull a few screenshots from decent to well-drawn scenes from the same episode.






I'm getting tired of people just ripping on the new animation like it's some kind of cancer. Even in what is arguably the worst animated episode of modern Dragon Ball, there is still well-drawn animation. People aren't even talking about how parts of the SSJ3 fight are actually pretty fluid and pleasing to watch. I'm not denying that modern animation has it's flaws and often times falls short of expectations, but come on people: give credit where credit is due. It becomes difficult to have meaningful conversation about things like this when there is so much toxicity around the subject. I'm also not saying that people who don't like the new animation are wrong, but when there are people who just add negativity without substance to the conversation, it makes me (and probably others) not want to even share their opinions about it.

A) its still worse than an average dbz episode animated over 20 years ago. Goku looks like he belongs in toy story, there is nothing in his eyes or expression.

B) Those stills are an anamoly when compared to the entirety of super and especially episode 5.

[Sayo-chan]

I've never seen one single mistake of two left hands in the original, but I would like to see it if it exists.

What about two right hands?

That's not as bad, but still, it gives me the same sense of dissatisfaction I had when I saw Vegeta with two-left hands.

Even though these scenes are filler and cause some plot holes, the way they're presented is really neat.

Which plot holes, mind if I ask you?

Cell's origins is contradictory. We see him in an earlier episode hatching during a thunderstorm in the middle of nowhere, whereas with the gif, you can clearly see him hatching immediately in Gero's lab.

Since we've beaten to death how the animation is abysmal at times in episode 5, I decided to pull a few screenshots from decent to well-drawn scenes from the same episode.

I'm getting tired of people just ripping on the new animation like it's some kind of cancer. Even in what is arguably the worst animated episode of modern Dragon Ball, there is still well-drawn animation. People aren't even talking about how parts of the SSJ3 fight are actually pretty fluid and pleasing to watch. I'm not denying that modern animation has it's flaws and often times falls short of expectations, but come on people: give credit where credit is due. It becomes difficult to have meaningful conversation about things like this when there is so much toxicity around the subject. I'm also not saying that people who don't like the new animation are wrong, but when there are people who just add negativity without substance to the conversation, it makes me (and probably others) not want to even share their opinions about it.

It still looks like something I'd find on DeviantArt.

[Metalwario64]

I like those above shots. My only real criticism of them is the incorrect cheek bone shading, but that's something I'm going to have to accept at this point.

I do think the animation was really bad, and I'd still take early Last House over it, but like I said in the Super thread, it isn't the horror that is post-Cell and GT Uchiyama:

[MrWalnut4]

Since we've beaten to death how the animation is abysmal at times in episode 5, I decided to pull a few screenshots from decent to well-drawn scenes from the same episode.

Spoiler:

I'm getting tired of people just ripping on the new animation like it's some kind of cancer. Even in what is arguably the worst animated episode of modern Dragon Ball, there is still well-drawn animation. People aren't even talking about how parts of the SSJ3 fight are actually pretty fluid and pleasing to watch. I'm not denying that modern animation has it's flaws and often times falls short of expectations, but come on people: give credit where credit is due. It becomes difficult to have meaningful conversation about things like this when there is so much toxicity around the subject. I'm also not saying that people who don't like the new animation are wrong, but when there are people who just add negativity without substance to the conversation, it makes me (and probably others) not want to even share their opinions about it.

A) its still worse than an average dbz episode animated over 20 years ago. Goku looks like he belongs in toy story, there is nothing in his eyes or expression.

B) Those stills are an anamoly when compared to the entirety of super and especially episode 5.

How is it worse exactly? Here's what I would call an "average" screenshot from Kai (probably better than average really) compared to one of those screenshots.




I wouldn't call either of those screenshots exceptional and would say they are about the same quality. Take off the rose tinted glasses and look at the "real" average animation we got in DBZ and you see a whole lot of crap animated by Ebisawa and Uchiyama. The anomalies in DBZ were when we got exceptional animation by someone like Kan'no, Yamamuro or Nakatsuru. And by the way, those so called "anomalies" from Super are present just about as frequently as the bad animation is. The entirety of DBZ's animation is average, and I would argue that ignoring parts of this episode, Super is as well. We only have 5 episodes to compare against 291 so there's no reasonable way to judge Super as a whole yet.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

I like those above shots. My only real criticism of them is the incorrect cheek bone shading, but that's something I'm going to have to accept at this point.

I do think the animation was really bad, and I'd still take early Last House over it, but like I said in the Super thread, it isn't the horror that is post-Cell and GT Uchiyama:

Those 2 scenes look beautiful,i don't know what you're talking about other then nit picking.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Since we've beaten to death how the animation is abysmal at times in episode 5, I decided to pull a few screenshots from decent to well-drawn scenes from the same episode.

Spoiler:

I'm getting tired of people just ripping on the new animation like it's some kind of cancer. Even in what is arguably the worst animated episode of modern Dragon Ball, there is still well-drawn animation. People aren't even talking about how parts of the SSJ3 fight are actually pretty fluid and pleasing to watch. I'm not denying that modern animation has it's flaws and often times falls short of expectations, but come on people: give credit where credit is due. It becomes difficult to have meaningful conversation about things like this when there is so much toxicity around the subject. I'm also not saying that people who don't like the new animation are wrong, but when there are people who just add negativity without substance to the conversation, it makes me (and probably others) not want to even share their opinions about it.

Exactly couldn't agree more with you, people have been harping on about those poorly drawn shots (majority of which were barely noticeable when watching the episode) yet those shots you have posted don't seem to be mentioned at all, yes it wasn't the best animated episode but it is far from as bad as some folks are making it out to be, the old animation was far from perfect just look that these yet we have been getting unfair comparisons, (if you are going to criticise the new animation at least be fair about it):

Spoiler:

[Attitudefan]

I wouldn't call either of those screenshots exceptional and would say they are about the same quality. Take off the rose tinted glasses and look at the "real" average animation we got in DBZ and you see a whole lot of crap animated by Ebisawa and Uchiyama. The anomalies in DBZ were when we got exceptional animation by someone like Kan'no, Yamamuro or Nakatsuru. And by the way, those so called "anomalies" from Super are present just about as frequently as the bad animation is. The entirety of DBZ's animation is average, and I would argue that ignoring parts of this episode, Super is as well. We only have 5 episodes to compare against 291 so there's no reasonable way to judge Super as a whole yet.

Except the first 5 episodes of Dragonball were animated well. Some really nice shots, detailed backgrounds, and there wasn't any weird animation. DBZ first 5 had episode 1 looking a bit strange in parts, but overall looked pretty passable. The next 4 were animated pretty damn well, specifically 2, 3, and 4. Uchiyama's episode 5 in Z also looked pretty good despite slightly-off model designs. Nothing I would say is BAD, unlike Super. Hell, one of the most iconic scenes, the death of Goku and Raditz, is done by Last House and has really awesome cuts and shots.

[Sayo-chan]

Spoiler:

On the contrary, that filler episode of Goku and Cell fighting has great animation.

[MrWalnut4]

I wouldn't call either of those screenshots exceptional and would say they are about the same quality. Take off the rose tinted glasses and look at the "real" average animation we got in DBZ and you see a whole lot of crap animated by Ebisawa and Uchiyama. The anomalies in DBZ were when we got exceptional animation by someone like Kan'no, Yamamuro or Nakatsuru. And by the way, those so called "anomalies" from Super are present just about as frequently as the bad animation is. The entirety of DBZ's animation is average, and I would argue that ignoring parts of this episode, Super is as well. We only have 5 episodes to compare against 291 so there's no reasonable way to judge Super as a whole yet.

Except the first 5 episodes of Dragonball were animated well. Some really nice shots, detailed backgrounds, and there wasn't any weird animation. DBZ first 5 had episode 1 looking a bit strange in parts, but overall looked pretty passable. The next 4 were animated pretty damn well, specifically 2, 3, and 4. Uchiyama's episode 5 in Z also looked pretty good despite slightly-off model designs. Nothing I would say is BAD, unlike Super. Hell, one of the most iconic scenes, the death of Goku and Raditz, is done by Last House and has really awesome cuts and shots.

I don't mean comparing the first five episodes of each series, I'm talking about comparing each series as a whole. So far, we have 2 movies, 5 episodes and a few game cut scenes to compare against almost 20 years of previous animation. I don't think it is a fair comparison until we get farther into Super as I hope the parts of this episodes were an anomaly rather than the norm.

[HybridSaiyan]

If you want to see some perfectly drawn Z stills then here, have them cause I don't see Super ever rising up to this quality.

Spoiler:

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

If you want to see some perfectly drawn Z stills then here, have them cause I don't see Super ever rising up to this quality.

Spoiler:

Those are great. The people saying super is on par with Z are crazy! They take the worst from 293 episodes that are over 2 decades old and use that as reasons why super is good. Super is entertaining but all the colors are bad,at least the old animation doesn't have digital coloring. I'd take the worst of Z>the best of super.

[StrawHatPatriot]

I hope people don't get the idea that it's because digital animation isn't good for Dragon Ball... because that itsn't the reason why the new episodes look weird.

As stated in the first page, the characters simply aren't drawn that well. Period.

This a gif from a DBKAI opening. I think it's drawn pretty well:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 312459.gif

It doesn't help that the animation is more cheap than it was back in the day (ti's either CGI inserts are lazy limited animation). More importantly, they've severely dumbed down the fights and they are not violent anymore.

Will we ever see anything as fluid as this?



Or as intense or gruesome as these?

[Doctor.]

If you want to see some perfectly drawn Z stills then here, have them cause I don't see Super ever rising up to this quality.

Spoiler:

All of those stills were drawn over 100 episodes into Z. Get some from episodes 1 through 5 for a much better comparison.

[funrush]

That's how SpongeBob survived not being funny for over 10 years.

Spongebob survived not being funny because Nick pours all their money into it and reruns it a ton.

Also to add onto what StrawHatPatriot said, digital animation isn't the problem, it's the animation team/budget/whatever. You can make super beautiful stuff with digital animation if you put in the effort.

As much as I think the first two arcs of Super being the movies are super unnecessary (Why give us an inferior experience of two pretty great movies without giving us very much extra to actually care? As of now, it's just the movie but slower.) I wouldn't say that Super's a travesty yet. Definitely needs some buffs in the animation though. A thing that might happen and is actually pretty common these days is that they rush out the animation to make the airdate, but fix it up later for the home release. This was done with Madoka Magica and Attack on Titan and I have a vague memory of them doing it to Sailor Moon Crystal but I'm not sure so correct me if I'm wrong. Sailor Moon Crystal's a Toei show though, so that would show they're okay for doing things like that. Whenever the Super DVDs come out, someone should check to see if scenes like the SSJ1 Goku Vs. Beerus one get improved a little.

[HybridSaiyan]

If you want to see some perfectly drawn Z stills then here, have them cause I don't see Super ever rising up to this quality.

Spoiler:

All of those stills were drawn over 100 episodes into Z. Get some from episodes 1 through 5 for a much better comparison.

How about these ones then? ~

Spoiler: