"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Zephyr]

That's just the modern anime's abysmal art style at play.

[TheMikado]

Um...

The criticism we've received has been way too overblown. Someone put a few video sequences that looked bad onto the Internet, and people focused on them when talking about an entire series. You can not criticize an entire product by only looking at a few sequences.

The animators responsible for those scenes are newbies who just started working at this level in the industry, which means their skills are evolving right now. Anyway, they are good animators, and I just do not understand why they get picked on to such a degree.

How does saying they have "newbie" animators improve your argument that the animation isn't bad? If anything it justifies it by forcing an acknowledgement and then a justification of why it's terrible.

Super-Realistic Piccolo


SSG Goku Bone/Joint Flex ability


A couple of scenes like these every few episodes would be different than multiples in the same episode. This indicates poor quality control and a rushed product.

[BluePiccolo]

It doesn't excuse them but man, give them a break. It's really not as "a 10 year old drew them" as you put it. We're all nitpicking the series at this point and you know it.

The fact of the matter is none of us was watching DBZ weekly back when it first aired originally, if we did, we would probably have complaints about the animation and proportions as much as we do today.

[FTW395]

It doesn't excuse them but man, give them a break. It's really not as "a 10 year old drew them" as you put it. We're all nitpicking the series at this point and you know it.

The fact of the matter is none of us was watching DBZ weekly back when it first aired originally, if we did, we would probably have complaints about the animation and proportions as much as we do today.

No because the animation DBZ had, was acceptable 20 YEARS AGO. It's pretty sad if the current animation of an anime series is by a stretch on par with it's 20 years older counterpart.

[Gyt Kaliba]

It doesn't excuse them but man, give them a break. It's really not as "a 10 year old drew them" as you put it. We're all nitpicking the series at this point and you know it.

The fact of the matter is none of us was watching DBZ weekly back when it first aired originally, if we did, we would probably have complaints about the animation and proportions as much as we do today.

This, so much this.

Yes, Super definitely has a lot of funky animation going on, but a majority of people that bring that up constantly never seem to recall there being just as many funky moments in Z as well. That and, there is a perfectly fine way to talk about animation looking poor that doesn't come off as nearly as belittling towards the people working on the show. It's on that note that I sort of agree with Yamamuro - some of the complaints online really are overboard.

Granted, they could have avoided many of them as well just by...taking time to actually do proper work before even starting the series, rather than rushing it as they did and continue to do...but that's why it's a two way street.

No because the animation DBZ had was acceptable 20 YEARS AGO, it's pretty sad if the current animation of an anime series is by a stretch on par with it's 20 years older counterpart.

No offense, but it sounds almost like you're trying to say modern day animation is automatically supposed to look better than any examples of old, and...well, at least to me, that's just not in any way true. I can think of plenty of older animation styles that look amazing compared to a lot of modern day examples, just as I can easily think of plenty of newer styles that tend to work better than a lot of older ones.

[JulieYBM]

Twenty years of progression means twenty years worth of more techniques that animators have to learn. The more one has to learn the less one will be able to refine, especially on shorter schedules, which means more poor work being created.

Dragon Ball Z was pretty weak as it was. Yuu Yuu Hakusho would regularly use a lot of background animation and more complex movement and layouts despite being produced during the same era.

[Hellspawn28]

DBZ did had good animation at times, but most of it was okay at best. DB was a series never known for having good animation. People remember DB for the story, action and characters. Besides Toei in the past has done awful looking animation too. They did Psychic Wars in 1991 and it looked awful back then too. Even the original Gundam show from 1979 looked better than Psychic Wars did in my opinion.

[eledoremassis02]

DBZ did had good animation at times, but most of it was okay at best. DB was a series never known for having good animation. People remember DB for the story, action and characters. Besides Toei in the past has done awful looking animation too. They did Psychic Wars in 1991 and it looked back then too. Even the original Gundam show from 1979 looked better than Psychic Wars did in my opinion.

To be fair the detail and action were animated (usually) much better than their american counter parts. So in places like the U.S, it is know for it's animation also (remember Z started right before the anime boom in the US)

[BluePiccolo]

Twenty years of progression means twenty years worth of more techniques that animators have to learn. The more one has to learn the less one will be able to refine, especially on shorter schedules, which means more poor work being created.

Sure, 20 years of progress is huge in a carrier of one animator but a production team is a flowing river of newcomers and smaller number of good animators on their way out. Plus, digitization and certain animation techniques being banned in Japan changed the way things work in the animation industry as I've learned. The schedules are tighter than ever, less time for supervisors to edit and implement changes to the point that it's very frustrating to keep up with deadlines, and you must know or at least heard how insanely punctual and dedicated Japanese are about work.

[Noah]

There is no excuse! We never should stop complaining about how poorly Super has being animated because we deserve way better than this.

[Hugo Boss]

There is no excuse! We never should stop complaining about how poorly Super has being animated because we deserve way better than this.

I'm not saying we can't complain about things we don't like, that's natural, but why should we have the right to see something amazing and not pay for that?

[Gyt Kaliba]

There is no excuse! We never should stop complaining about how poorly Super has being animated because we deserve way better than this.

I'm not saying we can't complain about things we don't like, that's natural, but why should we have the right to see something amazing and not pay for that?

Also very true. There's probably less than 1% of people on this forum who actually have a legal avenue to watch the series, and maybe even less than that who have a legal avenue to watching it and actually being up to date with the latest episodes...something to keep in mind when one is suddenly feeling 'entitled' to anything.

[buutenks]

You watch it for free, why complain?

[sintzu]

You watch it for free, why complain?

Because we'll be buying it when it's released where we live.

[Noah]

You watch it for free, why complain?

Because we'll be buying it when it's released where we live.

Exactly.

[Gyt Kaliba]

That still doesn't give any particular legal right to already be viewing free episodes now though.

[Ajay]

Can we not start some anti-complaining brigade. Yes, nobody outside of Japan has any legal right to be viewing Super, but that doesn't mean nobody has a right to throw their opinions out there about a product that's clearly very troubled.

Complaining is fine, as long as it's done the right way. Nobody's going to take you seriously if you go, "This looks like it was done by a child. Piece of shit. Fuck Toei!" over and over. Understand the industry, understand why it's the way it is, and show a little bit of compassion when throwing your opinions out there.

As mentioned on the recent podcast, the animators know the work isn't good; they're embarrassed by it, and ask for you to understand they're doing the best they can with the time they're given.

The recent comments in the interview are frustrating, but they're not totally unfounded. Some of the comments out there are mindblowingly stupid.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Complaining is fine, as long as it's done the right way. Nobody's going to take you seriously if you go, "This looks like it was done by a child. Piece of shit. Fuck Toei!" over and over. Understand the industry, understand why it's the way it is, and show a little bit of compassion when throwing your opinions out there.

And that is all that I ask. But, as soon as someone does start complaining in that fashion, as if they're actually 'entitled' to anything, it's at that point I can't help but wonder if they've forgotten their viewing status, that's all.

Again, I have no problem with someone complaining about the animation or anything else, but do it in a constructive manner, and actually posting positive comments on other subjects every once in a while would go a long way in convincing people you (and that's a general you, just to be clear, not directed at you, Ajay ) aren't just here to complain and nothing else.

[Ssgvegito30]

I've had enough of ppl nit picking bad animations in super yes super animation is lacking at times, the fact is nothing is perfect dbz had animation problems as well and I'm sure dbz when it debuted in Japan 30 years back they had animation problems as well but as time went by they corrected their art and animation and again the way we are criticizing super is because we live in a networking world, if networking world existed in the days of dbz I'm sure it'll be criticized the same way as super is animation wise

[Ssgvegito30]

Another thing I forgot to mention is I'm not against criticizing, criticize where it's due like story or fight choreography etc.
To me story is fine but the main thing is the fight choreography, which I think there is a bit of an improvement because I liked the fight btw goku vs frieza, also to people who bitch about super animation so much it gets irritating plz don't watch super for free wait till you get it in your country, nobody is forcing you to watch as soon as it comes online....