Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[emperior]

If that Orange Piccolo is not the illustration which Toriyama initially handed the anime staff, I guess that originally Toriyama drew Ultimate and Orange Piccolo with the black belt, and now he has forgotten about that detail for this drawing.

I doubt that it was Toei’s decision.

[YamiGoku]

Thats... thats exactly my point? i wrote exactly this. the color of the belt changes when Piccolo transforms. BUT here we see the new form of Piccolo, without the colorchange of the belt.

Piccolo has 2 new forms in the movie, Ultimate Piccolo and Orange Piccolo

Thats true. I didnt say anything otherwise.

Ultimate is the one that has the color change, Orange is the one in the pic.

Guess what: his belt turns black in BOTH transformations. Why are you arguing with me? In the movie his belt changes his color to black in both transformations, in this picture of Toriyama it stays red.

Welp, you are right then

I haven't seen the movie, and I thought that's what the others were trying to say, I guess Toriyama keeps forgetting things...

[BWri]

Your right, i guess it's just Toei doing the ssj4 clothing with Piccolo?

Well, in Piccolo's case it makes more logical sense. He often uses magi-change aka Clothes Beam ^TM and he even uses it quite casually in the movie. So, maybe he decided that his new form needed a more dramatic flair Brings to mind that dub line from Vegeta when Piccolo slowly emerged from the RoSaT, "Great ... a dramatic entrance."

[jjbgood]

My guess for the color change: its a better contrast to the color of his body when transformed.
But i think "Toriyama drew him that way and forgot afterwards" sounds plausible too.

[Luso Saiyan]

You're all overthinking what was clearly a mistake/oversight from the colorist. Toriyama is not responsible for that.

[cuartas]

Well, on my hopes for this movie to flop there's a light of hope on these first Sublime 3 minutes displaying the Talent of Kubota, which I hope makes it to the continuation of Super (high amounts of COPIUM here). If the whole movie was like that it would've been madness, but nope, talent and potential wasted on dreadful 3D animation

[MCDaveG]

I have listened to the podcast and actually found it interesting, as there were spoilers for things I didn't got from Japanese.
But overall yeah, have the same sentiments. The CGI is quite good with few hick-ups, but the movie is fun.
Also, the Toriyama writing is unique and works like it did in it's heyday.

I listened to the podcast as well, and their comparisons to the Buu arc make me wanna see this even more.

Orange Piccolo in particular looks like it's operating on the same design philosophy Super Saiyan 3 is: Exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness but still an awesome design that looks and feels exceptionally powerful. I love it.

Spoiler:

I especially love how the name "Orange Piccolo" was something Piccolo came up with on the spot as an afterthought, explaining why it's so bland and literal. Cipher mentioned in the podcast that Dragon Ball humor tends to be very dry when it's Toriyama writing it, and this is a prime example of that.

And Cell MAX actually looks kinda cool. He looks more like a combination of 2nd form Cell and the hulked out version of Perfect Cell than just straight 2nd form as was being described. And I like the red and green color scheme with dashes of purple thrown in, it makes the design pop in a way it wouldn't have if they had went with the original Cell's color scheme.

Yeah, I was put down at first without context, but I kinda like Orange Piccolo and it actually plays off with humor from the rest. Sure, he could call himself Super Piccolo as he looks more like Namekian version of Super Saiyan, but we have Golden Freeza, Super Saiyan Blue, Orange Piccolo.

My only gripe is with Gohan's weird hair after transformation, looks like those weird models from video games that had trouble to design Goku's hair in 3D or that rudiculous humongous SSJ hair they drew to Goku in Freeza arc. The bang doesn't help.

I am still biased towards the original run of the series and of course, GT, so I am vocal here about the new design choices that break my gramps "Dragon Ball was better in my young days", but I would probably love it as a kid. And that's important.
I was also WOWed by SSJ4 in GT as a kid and that design is quite rudiculous itself coming after Z. But man, I still love it.
I probably like Orange Piccolo and Awakened crazy Gohan more than SSJ God and Blue.

[Majin Buu]

My only gripe is with Gohan's weird hair after transformation, looks like those weird models from video games that had trouble to design Goku's hair in 3D or that rudiculous humongous SSJ hair they drew to Goku in Freeza arc. The bang doesn't help.

Agreed. The only things I've heard about the film that make me roll my eyes are both related to Final Gohan.

1. That it makes its debut by rehashing Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 moment from the Cell arc, right down to the red streak of rage. It's the kind of in-your-face nostalgia pandering that makes me grow tired of nostalgia pandering in general.

2. Its appearance; for the reasons you gave. The hair makes him look like he's wearing a wig that's too big for him. It makes me appreciate the fine line between an awesomely ridiculous design and a just plain bad one (which also makes me appreciate how good Toriyama is at riding that line as a designer).

In fact, between Final Gohan and Gohan's relationship with Pan not getting the payoff it needed despite the set up (and the missed opportunity for Great Saiyaman hijinks with the superhero theme), it sounds like Gohan himself is the weakest element of the film. Though that makes sense considering Toriyama conceived this as a Piccolo story and that Gohan was pretty much shoehorned into it by the producer.

[jjbgood]

(and the missed opportunity for Great Saiyaman hijinks with the superhero theme)

I really dont get this. Saw a comment like that now many times and i dont get it. I never liked the Saiyaman thing. I always thought it didnt suited Gohan to go so extreme goofy. And i also think it was overused (especially with anime fillers). As a gag, for gohan to hide his identity it was funny. But okay, if you liked that goofy stuff, alright... BUT it would have not fit in with the plot of the movie. Gohans actions needed to be serious and angerfueled. He confronted the self acclaimed super heroes while he was on a rescue mission for his daughter. It would have been out of place to go Saiyaman in that situation. I'm glad they didnt do it.

[Majin Buu]

I really dont get this. Saw a comment like that now many times and i dont get it. I never liked the Saiyaman thing. I always thought it didnt suited Gohan to go so extreme goofy. And i also think it was overused (especially with anime fillers). As a gag, for gohan to hide his identity it was funny. But okay, if you liked that goofy stuff, alright...

Yes, I like "that goofy stuff" and think it suits Gohan's personality as someone whose motivations for fighting lean more towards heroism than his father's.

BUT it would have not fit in with the plot of the movie. Gohans actions needed to be serious and angerfueled. He confronted the self acclaimed super heroes while he was on a rescue mission for his daughter. It would have been out of place to go Saiyaman in that situation. I'm glad they didnt do it.

Of course you are, you don't like "that goofy stuff".

Nothing I've heard about the film screams "Great Saiyaman doesn't belong here" (In fact, he feels more out of place in Battle of Gods than he would have here). This whole thing just sounds like your bias against Great Saiyaman talking as opposed to Saiyaman just not being right for the material. It sounds like he would have fit in just fine tonally until Cell Max shows up and things actually get serious. He and the Gammas would have played off of each other brilliantly.

[Kagari]

Agreed. The only things I've heard about the film that make me roll my eyes are both related to Final Gohan.

In fact, between Final Gohan and Gohan's relationship with Pan not getting the payoff it needed despite the set up (and the missed opportunity for Great Saiyaman hijinks with the superhero theme), it sounds like Gohan himself is the weakest element of the film. Though that makes sense considering Toriyama conceived this as a Piccolo story and that Gohan was pretty much shoehorned into it by the producer.

Saiyaman doesn't belong in this film as the super heroes are the Gammas and it is that way because Gohan and Piccolo and co. are set up as the "villains". If you'd watched the film you'd also know that Gohan isn't shoehorned into the story because he's the focus of the plot. Most of the actions from other characters hinge on getting him into the fight. People really keep misreading that interview quote and it's becoming obnoxious. This stuff was decided in early planning, not tacked on when the script was already done.

[Majin Buu]

Saiyaman doesn't belong in this film as the super heroes are the Gammas and it is that way because Gohan and Piccolo and co. are set up as the "villains".

Yeah, I know what the premise is. It wasn't impossible to work Saiyaman into that.

Off the top of my head: Since the Gammas are already working under the misunderstanding that Gohan and Piccolo are villains, just tell them that Saiyaman is a villain disguising himself as a hero or something like that.

If you'd watched the film you'd also know that Gohan isn't shoehorned into the story because he's the focus of the plot. Most of the actions from other characters hinge on getting him into the fight. People really keep misreading that interview quote and it's becoming obnoxious. This stuff was decided in early planning, not tacked on when the script was already done.

I haven't watched the film, I'm going off of reactions; but It sounds like Piccolo is more the focus than Gohan based on those reactions; and I brought up the interview because it explains why that is. I worded things the way I did based on those reactions and the interview. The action depends on Gohan getting involved, but Piccolo sounds like the one driving the plot and putting everything into motion to stop the villains.

[Kagari]

Saiyaman doesn't belong in this film as the super heroes are the Gammas and it is that way because Gohan and Piccolo and co. are set up as the "villains".

Yeah, I know what the premise is. It wasn't impossible to work Saiyaman into that.

Off the top of my head: Since the Gammas are already working under the misunderstanding that Gohan and Piccolo are villains, just tell them that Saiyaman is a villain disguising himself as a hero or something like that.

If you'd watched the film you'd also know that Gohan isn't shoehorned into the story because he's the focus of the plot. Most of the actions from other characters hinge on getting him into the fight. People really keep misreading that interview quote and it's becoming obnoxious. This stuff was decided in early planning, not tacked on when the script was already done.

I haven't watched the film, I'm going off of reactions; but It sounds like Piccolo is more the focus than Gohan based on those reactions; and I brought up the interview because it explains why that is. I worded things the way I did based on those reactions and the interview. The action depends on Gohan getting involved, but Piccolo sounds like the one driving the plot and putting everything into motion to stop the villains.

You should watch the movie first perhaps then, before coming to such conclusions.

[Majin Buu]

I don't think my conclusions are off-base given what I've read about the film, but agree to disagree.

[jjbgood]

Of course you are, you don't like "that goofy stuff".

Nothing I've heard about the film screams "Great Saiyaman doesn't belong here" (In fact, he feels more out of place in Battle of Gods than he would have here). This whole thing just sounds like your bias against Great Saiyaman talking as opposed to Saiyaman just not being right for the material. It sounds like he would have fit in just fine tonally until Cell Max shows up and things actually get serious. He and the Gammas would have played off of each other brilliantly.

Well at least i have that opinion based on actually seeing the movie (twice) instead of just ranting about how i think something fits into a movie I've never saw. i dont care if you like the Saiyaman stuff and for my argumentation its also inessential if i like it or not. its just that it wouldnt fit into the storyline of that movie, because the interactions of Gohan with the Gammas and the Red Ribbon Army are very serious and fueled with anger. Its a story about a father who is mad because his daughter was kidnapped and he does everything to get her back. Why should he suddenly use his bad hero cosplay and make his idiot dancemoves in that situation? it wouldnt fit the tone. As you would know if you actually saw that movie.

[Unkikonki]

I'VE JUST WATCHED DBS: SUPER HERO. THIS IS MY CRITIQUE

I believe this movie signals the beginning of the end for the Dragon Ball Super franchise. The movie is terrible at all levels and is really hard to find anything positive at all. It feels like a cheap cash-grab. Everything people hated about DBS, this movie takes it to the extreme: lazy plot, boring fights, easy power ups, degradation of the power levels scale. If feel as though DBS has turned into a parody of itself. Note that CGI doesn’t even top the reasons why this movie sucks. That’s not to say that CGI was good, but the medium doesn’t matter much when all other decisions on writing and direction fail.

For starters, the plot is extremely lazy. Basically, Androids Saga 2.0 but bad, very bad.

Spoiler:

The Red Ribbon strikes back under the rule of Commander Red’s son, Magenta. Luckily for him, he gets a hold of Dr. Gero’s grandson, Dr. Hedo, who despite being just 24 years old, he is “more genius than Dr. Gero”. In a very short time, Hedo manages to create twin androids whose powers surpass Gohan’s. He also picks up Dr. Gero’s legacy to work on Cell Max. And that’s all you really need to know.

Now, a bad idea doesn’t necessarily mean a bad movie. I believe that execution is more often than not more important than a good idea, or at least it can help turn a mediocre idea into something enjoyable. Unfortunately, that is not the case with this movie. The direction is as terrible as the writing. Everything feels rushed, with no sense of flow. If you despised how DBS turned everyone into unidimensional characters, this movie goes one step further and squeezes the juice out of every single cliche possible. The same happens with fan service: they keep squeezing the piggy bank of nostalgia and use those memories to make up for the lack of ideas under the guise of respect and acknowledgment of the past, though they can’t even get that right.

Spoiler:

For instance, Piccolo gets a power up and a bonus generously gifted by Shen Long. Wait, wasn’t Shen Long unable to grant wishes above his power? Well, he just mimicked the technique used by the Grand Elder to draw out Gohan’s and Krillin’s dormant powers. I guess there are ways to fool Shen Long into using more power than he should be capable of, or whatever.

It just feels so cheap and lazy that one cannot help but to roll your eyes in disbelief. And the movie is full of similar examples.

A DB movie is all about building hype and anticipation for the final fight. One key element to that is to create interest in the main antagonist. This was done relatively well in the previous DBS movies.

Spoiler:

In this case, although we already have an idea of who Cell Max is, he isn’t introduce until the very last. Then, all he does is go berserk mode without saying a single line. Sounds familiar?

It’s almost as if they found inspiration on Bio Broly, possibly the worst DB movie ever. And I won’t even get into Cell Max’s lazy character design, in line with all other new characters. Oh, but they were all designed by Toriyama himself, right?

Finally, we get to CGI, the aspect many of you were probably waiting for. To put it simply, it didn’t work. Although not terrible, the fights felt slow and underwhelming, far from conveying the amount of power that the characters should be capable of exerting. If there is one thing I liked about CGI though, is how it gives more depth to the DB world as it allows for more detail. But this alone doesn’t justify its implementation, especially when adding more depth seems opposed to the childish approach chosen for all other aspects.

In conclusion, DBS Super Hero was terribly boring and disappointing. So boring indeed, that I fast-forwarded most of the final fight because I couldn’t wait for it to end. The franchise has made it clear the direction they want to follow is all about lazy cheap production aimed to a younger audience. Time will tell whether this works or ends up diluting the hype built by DBS.

[mute_proxy]

Spoiler:

I'VE JUST WATCHED DBS: SUPER HERO. THIS IS MY CRITIQUE

I believe this movie signals the beginning of the end for the Dragon Ball Super franchise. The movie is terrible at all levels and is really hard to find anything positive at all. It feels like a cheap cash-grab. Everything people hated about DBS, this movie takes it to the extreme: lazy plot, boring fights, easy power ups, degradation of the power levels scale. If feel as though DBS has turned into a parody of itself. Note that CGI doesn’t even top the reasons why this movie sucks. That’s not to say that CGI was good, but the medium doesn’t matter much when all other decisions on writing and direction fail.

For starters, the plot is extremely lazy. Basically, Androids Saga 2.0 but bad, very bad.

Spoiler:

The Red Ribbon strikes back under the rule of Commander Red’s son, Magenta. Luckily for him, he gets a hold of Dr. Gero’s grandson, Dr. Hedo, who despite being just 24 years old, he is “more genius than Dr. Gero”. In a very short time, Hedo manages to create twin androids whose powers surpass Gohan’s. He also picks up Dr. Gero’s legacy to work on Cell Max. And that’s all you really need to know.

Now, a bad idea doesn’t necessarily mean a bad movie. I believe that execution is more often than not more important than a good idea, or at least it can help turn a mediocre idea into something enjoyable. Unfortunately, that is not the case with this movie. The direction is as terrible as the writing. Everything feels rushed, with no sense of flow. If you despised how DBS turned everyone into unidimensional characters, this movie goes one step further and squeezes the juice out of every single cliche possible. The same happens with fan service: they keep squeezing the piggy bank of nostalgia and use those memories to make up for the lack of ideas under the guise of respect and acknowledgment of the past, though they can’t even get that right.

Spoiler:

For instance, Piccolo gets a power up and a bonus generously gifted by Shen Long. Wait, wasn’t Shen Long unable to grant wishes above his power? Well, he just mimicked the technique used by the Grand Elder to draw out Gohan’s and Krillin’s dormant powers. I guess there are ways to fool Shen Long into using more power than he should be capable of, or whatever.

It just feels so cheap and lazy that one cannot help but to roll your eyes in disbelief. And the movie is full of similar examples.

A DB movie is all about building hype and anticipation for the final fight. One key element to that is to create interest in the main antagonist. This was done relatively well in the previous DBS movies.

Spoiler:

In this case, although we already have an idea of who Cell Max is, he isn’t introduce until the very last. Then, all he does is go berserk mode without saying a single line. Sounds familiar?

It’s almost as if they found inspiration on Bio Broly, possibly the worst DB movie ever. And I won’t even get into Cell Max’s lazy character design, in line with all other new characters. Oh, but they were all designed by Toriyama himself, right?

Finally, we get to CGI, the aspect many of you were probably waiting for. To put it simply, it didn’t work. Although not terrible, the fights felt slow and underwhelming, far from conveying the amount of power that the characters should be capable of exerting. If there is one thing I liked about CGI though, is how it gives more depth to the DB world as it allows for more detail. But this alone doesn’t justify its implementation, especially when adding more depth seems opposed to the childish approach chosen for all other aspects.

In conclusion, DBS Super Hero was terribly boring and disappointing. So boring indeed, that I fast-forwarded most of the final fight because I couldn’t wait for it to end. The franchise has made it clear the direction they want to follow is all about lazy cheap production aimed to a younger audience. Time will tell whether this works or ends up diluting the hype built by DBS.

It's a little hard to take this review seriously when point for point it's everything people praise the movie for, just reversed lol.

[sangofe]

I'VE JUST WATCHED DBS: SUPER HERO. THIS IS MY CRITIQUE

I believe this movie signals the beginning of the end for the Dragon Ball Super franchise. The movie is terrible at all levels and is really hard to find anything positive at all. It feels like a cheap cash-grab. Everything people hated about DBS, this movie takes it to the extreme: lazy plot, boring fights, easy power ups, degradation of the power levels scale. If feel as though DBS has turned into a parody of itself. Note that CGI doesn’t even top the reasons why this movie sucks. That’s not to say that CGI was good, but the medium doesn’t matter much when all other decisions on writing and direction fail.

For starters, the plot is extremely lazy. Basically, Androids Saga 2.0 but bad, very bad.

Spoiler:

The Red Ribbon strikes back under the rule of Commander Red’s son, Magenta. Luckily for him, he gets a hold of Dr. Gero’s grandson, Dr. Hedo, who despite being just 24 years old, he is “more genius than Dr. Gero”. In a very short time, Hedo manages to create twin androids whose powers surpass Gohan’s. He also picks up Dr. Gero’s legacy to work on Cell Max. And that’s all you really need to know.

Now, a bad idea doesn’t necessarily mean a bad movie. I believe that execution is more often than not more important than a good idea, or at least it can help turn a mediocre idea into something enjoyable. Unfortunately, that is not the case with this movie. The direction is as terrible as the writing. Everything feels rushed, with no sense of flow. If you despised how DBS turned everyone into unidimensional characters, this movie goes one step further and squeezes the juice out of every single cliche possible. The same happens with fan service: they keep squeezing the piggy bank of nostalgia and use those memories to make up for the lack of ideas under the guise of respect and acknowledgment of the past, though they can’t even get that right.

Spoiler:

For instance, Piccolo gets a power up and a bonus generously gifted by Shen Long. Wait, wasn’t Shen Long unable to grant wishes above his power? Well, he just mimicked the technique used by the Grand Elder to draw out Gohan’s and Krillin’s dormant powers. I guess there are ways to fool Shen Long into using more power than he should be capable of, or whatever.

It just feels so cheap and lazy that one cannot help but to roll your eyes in disbelief. And the movie is full of similar examples.

A DB movie is all about building hype and anticipation for the final fight. One key element to that is to create interest in the main antagonist. This was done relatively well in the previous DBS movies.

Spoiler:

In this case, although we already have an idea of who Cell Max is, he isn’t introduce until the very last. Then, all he does is go berserk mode without saying a single line. Sounds familiar?

It’s almost as if they found inspiration on Bio Broly, possibly the worst DB movie ever. And I won’t even get into Cell Max’s lazy character design, in line with all other new characters. Oh, but they were all designed by Toriyama himself, right?

Finally, we get to CGI, the aspect many of you were probably waiting for. To put it simply, it didn’t work. Although not terrible, the fights felt slow and underwhelming, far from conveying the amount of power that the characters should be capable of exerting. If there is one thing I liked about CGI though, is how it gives more depth to the DB world as it allows for more detail. But this alone doesn’t justify its implementation, especially when adding more depth seems opposed to the childish approach chosen for all other aspects.

In conclusion, DBS Super Hero was terribly boring and disappointing. So boring indeed, that I fast-forwarded most of the final fight because I couldn’t wait for it to end. The franchise has made it clear the direction they want to follow is all about lazy cheap production aimed to a younger audience. Time will tell whether this works or ends up diluting the hype built by DBS.

This review is SO different from other reviews

[Majin Buu]

Well at least i have that opinion based on actually seeing the movie (twice) instead of just ranting about how i think something fits into a movie I've never saw.

Because ranting about people holding an opinion you don't agree with is so much better .

i dont care if you like the Saiyaman stuff and for my argumentation its also inessential if i like it or not.

Everyone has their own preferences that dictate how they feel about any given work, you're no different.

its just that it wouldnt fit into the storyline of that movie, because the interactions of Gohan with the Gammas and the Red Ribbon Army are very serious and fueled with anger.

Its a story about a father who is mad because his daughter was kidnapped and he does everything to get her back. Why should he suddenly use his bad hero cosplay and make his idiot dancemoves in that situation? it wouldnt fit the tone.

From what I've heard from people who have seen it, it doesn't get serious until Cell Max shows up. Unless the entire movie is serious all the way through, which nothing I've heard about it indicates that, I don't see how it was impossible to fit Saiyaman in there. What I've heard about the film just doesn't bear that out. Though someone who doesn't like the Saiyaman concept would argue that it shouldn't be there period, which is why I keep bringing that up: The way you're describing the film doesn't match how most other people have described it. I don't need to have seen the film to notice that. So I can only conclude that it's your bias against the Saiyaman concept talking as opposed to Saiyaman inherently being so out of place that he just can't be worked into the film at all...despite this being a mostly light-hearted and comedic small-scale story themed around superheroes- the type of story Great Saiyaman would be perfect for.

As you would know if you actually saw that movie.

The podcast in particular gave a pretty good rundown of it with 2 of the 3 people on it having seen it themselves. I trust their judgement and their reactions are in-line with most of the reactions I've seen, so I'm going to listen to them over you.

[MajinPopo]

I thought the CGI looked decent in this movie, apart from a couple of shots. I particularly didn't like the hair on Gohan's new form. Even though it's spiked up, it should still flow like hair. It doesn't look so bad from the front, but that shot where his head is turned to Piccolo... it just looks like a big solid video game polygon sitting on his head.

Still, aside from that it was pretty good. I think there's a sort of fake out regarding Piccolo's powerup that a lot of people miss. When he was granted it by Shenron and said that he added a little bonus, the mirror fell down so he could look at himself. I took it that the intended gag was that you're supposed to think that the mirror was the bonus.

It does make sense that Shenron would grant some kind of Namekian boost to Piccolo, due to the Dragon Ball's origins along with the Kami/Piccolo split. Shenron even directly refers to him as "Lord Piccolo", implying that there's still some level of connection and reverence there. Is this the first time that Piccolo Jr. has directly made a wish?

I felt like the acquisition of the power could have been handled in a better way, but that being said, in a series with wish-granting orbs, it does make sense to actually use them from time to time. It feels less like a Granolah/Gas cop-out of wishing to be the strongest, because it ties directly into Namekian lore with Guru's ability to draw out latent power and the aforementioned connection between Piccolo and the Dragon Balls.

Also, while you really feel that Gohan is a reluctant second protagonist, I do think that there were some interesting elements added to his character. While he has an interest in human matters, and is a loving guy, he still manifests as a slightly absent father like Goku and involves himself in his study as much as Goku involves himself in fighting. I believe it's a manifestation of his Saiyan traits pushed through a lens of Earth culture. Still, I do wish Gohan was slightly more present in this movie. And I wish that they didn't make such ridiculous hair after they had just mastered a decent scruffy Gohan look in the rest of the movie.

That being said, I'm not really sure it was handled great in the way that Piccolo and Pan directly manipulated Gohan into unlocking his power, sets a bad example for kids, but I also understand the need for Gohan to connect with Pan on a fighting level. The Saiyan blood runs deep in little Pan.

Also, was this the first time Goten has said "Kamehameha" instead of "Kamekameha"?