Unpopular DB opinions

[VDenter]

Well obviously i care that he switched the Villain since this is a unpopular opinion thread i dont expect everybody to agree. Plus Cell gets completely uninteresting once he reaches his perfect form.

But the only reason you know that is because you read it somewhere that he was asked to change the villain. It's not obvious at all that he wasn't always the endgame. And Cell's perfect form is infinitely preferable to any of the cyborgs.

Goku still would've been dead in the alternate timeline seeing as how he died of natural causes, so no, the simple solution you posit isn't as simple as you claim. Even if they could revive everyone else, they would still be killed off.

Okay fair enough when it comes to Goku but there is no reason as to why Vegeta or Piccolo or anybody could not have been revived. Also i find it hard to believe that they would have been killed off a second time since the Room of Spirit of Time exists. They could just taken one day to train in there so the Cyborgs become a none issue. Plus i am pretty Sure Goku despite having died of natural causes still has his original body in the other world so he can still get in contact with Gohan or anybody else who is fighting the Cyborgs. I find it simply impossible to believe that all the dead characters just do nothing because they might get killed again...So what!? If they revive Piccolo the dragon balls get revived as well.

This is one of the many reasons why the Time Travel aspect in the Cell arc feels forced more so than in most other fiction because I would totally buy Trunks needing to go back in time if he was out of options but he clearly wasn't

Yes of course i know about it because i read about it because all i could think when i found out about it was wow this whole arc could have been so much better but its not. We have to agree to disagree on Cell because he does feel tacked on there is simply no reason to him to do any of the things he does once he reaches his perfect form. The way he dies is also incredibly lame for numerous reasons. The way he achieves his perfect form is lame. up until this point in the story i cant for the life of me see how he is a better villain then the ones that came before him. I mean for crying out loud Kami knew about Cell for three or four years and told nobody about him. That alone makes him feel tacked on.

I still find enjoyment out of the Cell arc dont get me wrong but it requires me to almost turn off my brain completely and forget that the arc is a massive disappointment when compared to arcs that came before it.

[nickzambuto]

The anime doesn't become consistently good until Tao shows up. Before that, enjoyability was sporadic. (The manga is good from the start)

[Cure Dragon 255]

And even so, what if I do dislike all of the FUNi actors (I don't)? What if I honestly judged them all to be bad and prefer the originals?

Then I just wouldn't want to read your thoughts if that was the case. Though, knowing you, I'd assume you wouldn't share your thoughts on them if you judge them all as bad, seeing as you don't typically do something like that.

Here's another one that I'd guess is unpopular.
I dislike most of the Cha-La covers, obviously aside from Flow and Momoiro. I've yet to hear Mr. Aoki's version, so I can't say for that one.

I'm really sorry to say this but you joined this year. I think its uncalled for that you assume you know people when you met them for such a short time.

[ABED]

Okay fair enough when it comes to Goku but there is no reason as to why Vegeta or Piccolo or anybody could not have been revived. Also i find it hard to believe that they would have been killed off a second time since the Room of Spirit of Time exists.
Vegeta didn't know about the RST.

This is one of the many reasons why the Time Travel aspect in the Cell arc feels forced more so than in most other fiction because I would totally buy Trunks needing to go back in time if he was out of options but he clearly wasn't

He was because everyone was gone. You think intergalactic travel to a planet he doesn't know the location of is more justifiable than time travel? Why is intergalactic travel a better option than temporal?

Yes of course i know about it because i read about it because all i could think when i found out about it was wow this whole arc could have been so much better but its not. We have to agree to disagree on Cell because he does feel tacked on there is simply no reason to him to do any of the things he does once he reaches his perfect form. The way he dies is also incredibly lame for numerous reasons. The way he achieves his perfect form is lame. up until this point in the story i cant for the life of me see how he is a better villain then the ones that came before him. I mean for crying out loud Kami knew about Cell for three or four years and told nobody about him. That alone makes him feel tacked on.

Kami didn't know. Where did you get that idea? Two bratty teens are far worse villains, as are some white Chinese looking fat dude and some old guy. They are terrible. Not a single one of them feels like a big bad. They all feel like a preamble to a being that looks like a universal threat instead of some douche-y teen with long hair and an earring. After a galactic tyrant, a random punk given super strength is a huge step down. Cell is the organic culmination of the cyborgs and again I reiterate, the only people that claim Cell is random or tacked on know the behind the scenes story about Cell's creation.

And you make this assertion that there's no reason for him to do the things he does once he's reached his perfect form, but don't back up that assertion. His death was far from lame.

[Sailor Haumea]

How about the fact the old guy was the mastermind of a criminal organisation that posed a legitimate threat to the government 10+ years prior?

Or the fact said old guy unleashed androids that looked like a trucker, a samurai, a mobster, two bratty teenagers (who in turn activated an android modeled after the guy's son), and a clown, all of which are fully capable of wiping out a large portion of the Earth's population?

[ABED]

How about the fact the old guy was the mastermind of a criminal organisation that posed a legitimate threat to the government 10+ years prior?

Or the fact said old guy unleashed androids that looked like a trucker, a samurai, a mobster, two bratty teenagers (who in turn activated an android modeled after the guy's son), and a clown, all of which are fully capable of wiping out a large portion of the Earth's population?

He wasn't the mastermind. The only thing we know for certain is that he built the cyborgs. The old guy's son thing is not in the manga or anime. And the government is a pacifist state. It seems like a paper tiger.

This is one of those cases where the cyborgs were a threat because Toriyama needed them to be. Earth hadn't even mastered intergalactic travel and yet Dr. Gero could create beings far stronger than even Freeza? At least Cell absorbed power and was made up the Cell's of the strongest fighters in the universe.

[Sailor Haumea]

How about the fact the old guy was the mastermind of a criminal organisation that posed a legitimate threat to the government 10+ years prior?

Or the fact said old guy unleashed androids that looked like a trucker, a samurai, a mobster, two bratty teenagers (who in turn activated an android modeled after the guy's son), and a clown, all of which are fully capable of wiping out a large portion of the Earth's population?

He wasn't the mastermind. The only thing we know for certain is that he built the cyborgs. The old guy's son thing is not in the manga or anime. And the government is a pacifist state. It seems like a paper tiger.

This is one of those cases where the cyborgs were a threat because Toriyama needed them to be. Earth hadn't even mastered intergalactic travel and yet Dr. Gero could create beings far stronger than even Freeza? At least Cell absorbed power and was made up the Cell's of the strongest fighters in the universe.

The mastermind and son come from Toriyama himself.

[VDenter]

Okay fair enough when it comes to Goku but there is no reason as to why Vegeta or Piccolo or anybody could not have been revived. Also i find it hard to believe that they would have been killed off a second time since the Room of Spirit of Time exists.
Vegeta didn't know about the RST.

This is one of the many reasons why the Time Travel aspect in the Cell arc feels forced more so than in most other fiction because I would totally buy Trunks needing to go back in time if he was out of options but he clearly wasn't

He was because everyone was gone. You think intergalactic travel to a planet he doesn't know the location of is more justifiable than time travel? Why is intergalactic travel a better option than temporal?

Yes of course i know about it because i read about it because all i could think when i found out about it was wow this whole arc could have been so much better but its not. We have to agree to disagree on Cell because he does feel tacked on there is simply no reason to him to do any of the things he does once he reaches his perfect form. The way he dies is also incredibly lame for numerous reasons. The way he achieves his perfect form is lame. up until this point in the story i cant for the life of me see how he is a better villain then the ones that came before him. I mean for crying out loud Kami knew about Cell for three or four years and told nobody about him. That alone makes him feel tacked on.

Kami didn't know. Where did you get that idea? Two bratty teens are far worse villains, as are some white Chinese looking fat dude and some old guy. They are terrible. Not a single one of them feels like a big bad. They all feel like a preamble to a being that looks like a universal threat instead of some douche-y teen with long hair and an earring. After a galactic tyrant, a random punk given super strength is a huge step down. Cell is the organic culmination of the cyborgs and again I reiterate, the only people that claim Cell is random or tacked on know the behind the scenes story about Cell's creation.

And you make this assertion that there's no reason for him to do the things he does once he's reached his perfect form, but don't back up that assertion. His death was far from lame.

Correct me if i am wrong but i specifically remember Kami stating something along the to Piccolo that he had sensed a evil on earth for a long time and that i pales in comparison to the cyborgs?

I dont know why you keep using the term " Bratty teens" Nothing indicated of them being bratty they were psychos who were created to kill everybody on earth and were searching for Goku for the purpose of killing him.
Cell getting killed by blowing himself up is dumb because Goku teleport to the other world even though he was alive This works how exactly? i guess that is okay but Future Goku teleporting from the other world to earth even though he is dead does not work why? Its also bad since its already established that Uranai Baba could travel to other world and bring dead fighters to the living world.

Cell gets revived and somehow still keeps his perfect form and is stronger and gains the ability to use Gokus teleportation!? Wow these are really convenient plot turns for Cell.

Cell unlike any other villain up until this point has no reason to kill or destroy anybody his only goal is to gain perfection once he achieves this what reason does he have to even create the cell games why does he make arbitrary rules in the Cell games and a ring for them to fight if he is going to just destroy it and disregard the rules and try to kill everybody he does all these things I guess since he is Evil,okay but really that is probably the lamest excuse ever coming after Freeza who had very legitimate reason for wanting the main characters dead.Cell would have never even achieved his perfect form had it not been for Piccolo and Vegeta.

Oh and he gets killed by Gohan who somehow got a power boost so massive by just training 1 year in the convenient plot device room thus surpassing everybody by a mile because reasons Gohan had hidden powers stuff. Like i said i dont care about power levels but this was so far fetched for me it was the last nail for this entire arc. He dies basically because he gets distracted. Wow what a fitting end to a Villain who feels forced just like many other things in the arc.

Also please dont assume that everybody who thinks Cell is tacked on is only thinking so because they read about it. Yeah sure i guess the villains who destroyed the future and the guy who made them and also has a personal reason to kill Goku Is somehow less interesting than a generic out of nowhere monster who is explained the second he gets introduced. Even if we ignore Cell it still does not fix any of the issues with the arc.

[Sailor Haumea]

Okay, first case of preferring the Japanese VA to the Funi one:

Shigeru Chiba is the better Pilaf.

I also prefer Hiromi Tsuru to Monica Rial...and obviously Tiffany Vollmer.

[Bansho64]

Shigeru Chiba is the better Pilaf.

I also prefer Hiromi Tsuru to Monica Rial...and obviously Tiffany Vollmer.

You'll be glad to know that these are actually some very common opinions on here.

[Sailor Haumea]

Shigeru Chiba is the better Pilaf.

I also prefer Hiromi Tsuru to Monica Rial...and obviously Tiffany Vollmer.

You'll be glad to know that these are actually some very common opinions on here.

Is my opinion of Schemmel > Nozawa and Henderson > Clinkenbeard > Nadolny unpopular?

[Bansho64]

Is my opinion of Schemmel > Nozawa and Henderson > Clinkenbeard > Nadolny unpopular?

I don't wanna speak for the whole site but most people I see here put Nozawa in front of Schemmel. Everything else seems pretty common. Almost everyone I've seen here loves Henderson's Gohan.

[Boo Machine]

I don't know how many times this might have been said in this thread.

But I love the garlic Jr. saga. The heros beating a villain without the help of goku and an immortal villain no less is just something I always enjoyed. And I thought the fight after Garlic puffs up was really cool and just the whole premise was interesting. Kuririns girlfriend was a dumb addition though.

[Sailor Haumea]

I don't know how many times this might have been said in this thread.

But I love the garlic Jr. saga. The heros beating a villain without the help of goku and an immortal villain no less is just something I always enjoyed. And I thought the fight after Garlic puffs up was really cool and just the whole premise was interesting. Kuririns girlfriend was a dumb addition though.

I like the saga for these reasons, too - no Goku + an immortal villain.

[Anime Kitten]

I love the garlic Jr. saga. The heros beating a villain without the help of goku and an immortal villain no less is just something I always enjoyed. And I thought the fight after Garlic puffs up was really cool and just the whole premise was interesting. Kuririns girlfriend was a dumb addition though.

Exactly my thoughts. I loved the whole arc minus Maron's inclusion. Utilizing the Dead Zone was excellent writing IMO, even if basic.

[ABED]

Correct me if i am wrong but i specifically remember Kami stating something along the to Piccolo that he had sensed a evil on earth for a long time and that i pales in comparison to the cyborgs?

It was a very vague warning. He didn't know about Cell specifically.

they were psychos who were created to kill everybody on earth and were searching for Goku for the purpose of killing him.

That wasn't why they were created. They were created in order to help Dr. Gero kill Goku and take over the world, not kill people like they were going on a joy ride.

Cell gets revived and somehow still keeps his perfect form and is stronger and gains the ability to use Gokus teleportation!? Wow these are really convenient plot turns for Cell.

The reasoning is a little wonky regarding keeping his perfect form, but Cell learning to teleport isn't. He figured it out after having seen it several times, just like Goku would learn techniques after having seen them relatively few times.

Also please dont assume that everybody who thinks Cell is tacked on is only thinking so because they read about it. Yeah sure i guess the villains who destroyed the future and the guy who made them and also has a personal reason to kill Goku Is somehow less interesting than a generic out of nowhere monster who is explained the second he gets introduced. Even if we ignore Cell it still does not fix any of the issues with the arc

I absolutely do because not for one second do I believe you would think this if it wasn't for it being relatively well known that Cell wasn't the original intent. The fact that those cyborgs destroyed the future doesn't make them interesting. They are just two overly strong teens. That could just as easily have been Cell who destroyed that future, that act alone doesn't make them interesting. Dr. Gero's reason is okay, but seeing as how we never even knew of his existence, his long standing grudge doesn't feel as compelling as it otherwise would have. And Cell is only "out of nowhere" if you weren't paying attention. Yes, he's explained when he's introduced, but so what? He's not even introduced until a third of the way to the arc. "Out of nowhere" is a completely abused term. How is he in any way out of nowhere?

Cell unlike any other villain up until this point has no reason to kill or destroy anybody his only goal is to gain perfection once he achieves this what reason does he have to even create the cell games why does he make arbitrary rules in the Cell games and a ring for them to fight if he is going to just destroy it and disregard the rules and try to kill everybody he does all these things I guess since he is Evil,okay but really that is probably the lamest excuse ever coming after Freeza who had very legitimate reason for wanting the main characters dead.Cell would have never even achieved his perfect form had it not been for Piccolo and Vegeta.

What great reason do the cyborgs have to kill everyone? They are two overpowered teens having a joy ride. That's not what I would deem to be the stuff of great villainy. Cell gains perfection and he wants to test himself. It's all there if you pay attention. He has Saiyan DNA so he likes a good fight. Freeza had no more legit reason to kill anyone than any other villain. Bad guys don't need a good reason, they just need to justify it in their own minds. And I fail to see your point regarding Cell reaching his perfect form only because of Piccolo and Vegeta. It shows he's crafty.

He dies basically because he gets distracted. Wow what a fitting end to a Villain who feels forced just like many other things in the arc.

That's a HUGE oversimplification. Gohan's arm was shattered. His arm was shattered and he was having trouble using his full power. Cell came back stronger than ever and was able to take advantage of the distraction long enough to hit Cell with his full power. I have issues with Gohan in this arc, but this isn't one of them. Instead of simply overpower his opponent, strategy is employed. You make it sound like that's wimpy.

[VDenter]

So Kami did know about something but did not say anything?

I dont get why you are so against the idea of Cell being tacked because every villain in every previous arcs was established as the primary threat. The cyborgs were in fact the primary threat Cell does show up out of nowhere simply because up until that point the cyborgs were the primary threat the plot also introduces 16 a character who serves almost nothing to the plot this was probably because the focus shifts to Cell almost immediately. Let me ask you this what does Cell actually add to the plot that could have not been accomplished by the cyborgs? Not very much i m afraid besides the cool looking design.

Freeza had a more legit reason for wanting the Characters dead. They basically killed most if not all his men but completely ruined his only chance to gain immortality. I fail to see your point how Cell would have reached his perfect form he never came across as crafty he merely lucked out that Piccolo and 17 were fighting otherwise he would have never found the cyborgs since you cant sense their energy. Vegeta hitting the low peak of his character and letting Cell absorb 18 basically why he became perfect Vegeta could of easily finished him off but the plot needed characters to act dumb so that is what we get. Again all speculation but had Cell not been introduced this would not have been a problem thats why he feels tacked on. Because the second he gets introduced the characters star doing nonsensical things.

If the cyborgs did not exist and Trunks came back in time to warn about Cell then i would have zero issues with this plot but since it insists on focusing on Cell for no reason halfway through.

No i did not say its wimpy but because of the way Cell comes back and is stronger, the attacks the other characters did to him before certainly would not to any damage to him now long enough for him to get distracted i just dont buy that.

[Kanassa]

If I remember the arc correctly, it's perfectly legitimate to feel that Cell came out of nowhere, he had little to no hinting before his arrival in an arc that was up to that point all focused on the androids. Though I'd say that the sudden entrance is part of what makes Cell more memorable.

Also, yeah we can call 18 and 17 just 'Bratty Teens who got strong', like we can just call Frieza a 'Pampered Brat who happens to be strong', or Buu a 'Bubblegum Clown' and Cell's just a 'Creepy Bugman'. It doesn't hamper their potential as villains.

[ABED]

So Kami did know about something but did not say anything?

He had a foreboding, but it was incredibly vague. Surely Piccolo knew it as well.

I dont get why you are so against the idea of Cell being tacked because every villain in every previous arcs was established as the primary threat.

That's your defense? Because every other villain was established pretty much from the beginning, so every villain must? We can debate execution, but I welcome the change. We know there's a threat coming, but it doesn't end up being the one we expect, but Cell doesn't feel tacked on. He feels like a logical progression seeing as how there's a constant mystery for the first third of the arc. Trunks says the cyborgs were the big threat that was coming, but since there are numerous changes to the timeline, Cell fits because he's also one of Dr. Gero's creations. The Cyborgs being the fuel for his perfection gave the story a nice sense of cohesion.

They basically killed most if not all his men

Freeza would kill anyone on a whim.

I fail to see your point how Cell would have reached his perfect form he never came across as crafty he merely lucked out that Piccolo and 17 were fighting otherwise he would have never found the cyborgs since you cant sense their energy.

Hence crafty. He pounced on any good fortune he could find, and you seem to have forgotten that until that point he had been absorbing people, but staying under the radar until he amassed enough power to be a threat. He knew the kind of person Vegeta was and used that to his advantage. You see that as Vegeta acting stupid because the plot demanded it. In this case, you are wrong. If it was simply because the plot demanded it, that implies he's acting out of character. He's not. Vegeta is well within character to allow his opponent to get stronger in order to have a better fight. It's happened before. But you are correct about Cell not being able to sense 17, but sensing Piccolo was fighting, he deduced Piccolo was fighting the cyborgs.

No i did not say its wimpy but because of the way Cell comes back and is stronger, the attacks the other characters did to him before certainly would not to any damage to him now long enough for him to get distracted i just dont buy that.

Vegeta didn't do any damage, he just hit him with enough force to distract him, like Tenshinhan did with the Kikoho. No physical damage was done, but it was enough to give Gohan the opening he needed.

he had little to no hinting

No, HE didn't, but there was certainly a sense that something bigger was going on with all the changes to the timeline.

[LuckyCat]

If I remember the arc correctly, it's perfectly legitimate to feel that Cell came out of nowhere, he had little to no hinting before his arrival in an arc that was up to that point all focused on the androids. Though I'd say that the sudden entrance is part of what makes Cell more memorable.

Exactly, Cell's sudden appearance is one of the strengths of the arc. The narrative sets you up to believe the Androids are all typical generic villains, but the story actually fleshes them out, humanizes them, and even lets the viewer sympathize with them. Then Cell appears and reinforces Gero's ambitions. And like ABED's been saying, Cell wasn't completely out of nowhere, there are small hints in the story that something bigger is going on if you're paying attention to the clues.