"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[perucho1990]

I think the main problem is that this arc has more PIS than the Black Arc, for example I think it damaged Jirens credibility by not having him eliminate Kale in episode 100, and later on Kale controlling her berserker power.

About Dyspo, its basically the opposite how Khaseral was treated, he was hyped in the recruitment arc only to be mocked by 17, and later on jobbing to the Saiyan Girls.

[Lionel]

For all of Kahseral's build up, he was one of the most unremarkable members of the Pride Troopers. I found Tupper and Zoiray to be more interesting than the man who can "create any weapon out of Ki". It's likely a byproduct of the studio not having the time, commitment and willingness to write more originally for a fighter who is only being used to facilitate Kale's character development. Jiren isn't much better -- there was no reason for him to spare an opponent as dangerous as Kale. She survived purely by the machinations of the studio. It reflects poorly on Jiren's competency as a rival when he's only knocking opponents unconscious instead of ringing them out in a setting that necessitates out of bounds eliminations.

[GodKaio-Ken]

For all of Kahseral's build up, he was one of the most unremarkable members of the Pride Troopers. I found Tupper and Zoiray to be more interesting than the man who can "create any weapon out of Ki". It's likely a byproduct of the studio not having the time, commitment and willingness to write more originally for a fighter who is only being used to facilitate Kale's character development. Jiren isn't much better -- there was no reason for him to spare an opponent as dangerous as Kale. She survived purely by the machinations of the studio. It reflects poorly on Jiren's competency as a rival when he's only knocking opponents unconscious instead of ringing them out in a setting that necessitates out of bounds eliminations.

I actually think Jiren isnt interested in eliminating people. At least at the very start I think his goal was to simply last until the end and fight if he needs too.

He sort of gives the vibe of "No-one can eliminate me and I dont want to participate in destruction if I dont have to"

[Ki Breaker]

He sort of gives the vibe of "No-one can eliminate me and I dont want to participate in destruction if I dont have to"

Why is he a pride trooper if he dosen't want to fight with 'evil' unless he realllly has to anyway? It's not like there are many people ( or any ) that would require him to fight..
He could just be like Piccolo and goof off in the ruins calling it mediation, instead of joining an organization which fights all the time and does the "dirty work"

[RedHeat]

He sort of gives the vibe of "No-one can eliminate me and I dont want to participate in destruction if I dont have to"

Why is he a pride trooper if he dosen't want to fight with 'evil' unless he realllly has to anyway? It's not like there are many people ( or any ) that would require him to fight..
He could just be like Piccolo and goof off in the ruins calling it mediation, instead of joining an organization which fights all the time and does the "dirty work"

Hence why he's not the leader. If you noticed, Jiren only decides to do something when someone tries to nuke the arena (like Kale or RiBri did). In my mind, he was the 'last resort' choice of the Pride Troopers incase anything got too heated for even Toppo to handle.

[perucho1990]

For all of Kahseral's build up, he was one of the most unremarkable members of the Pride Troopers. I found Tupper and Zoiray to be more interesting than the man who can "create any weapon out of Ki". It's likely a byproduct of the studio not having the time, commitment and willingness to write more originally for a fighter who is only being used to facilitate Kale's character development. Jiren isn't much better -- there was no reason for him to spare an opponent as dangerous as Kale. She survived purely by the machinations of the studio. It reflects poorly on Jiren's competency as a rival when he's only knocking opponents unconscious instead of ringing them out in a setting that necessitates out of bounds eliminations.

The whole "create any weapon out of Ki" kad potential, he couldve greated a Gun made of Ki to attempt to destroy 17s barrier. They couldve fixed Jiren KOing Kale by just having Hit use tokitobashi and rescue Kale from being out of bounds like he did with Caulifla earlier.

I found Majora from U4 very underrated, he has better feats than 50% of the Pride Troopers(she sent 18 on the ground with a kick) and only lost because of a gag scene.

[Ki Breaker]

He sort of gives the vibe of "No-one can eliminate me and I dont want to participate in destruction if I dont have to"

Why is he a pride trooper if he dosen't want to fight with 'evil' unless he realllly has to anyway? It's not like there are many people ( or any ) that would require him to fight..
He could just be like Piccolo and goof off in the ruins calling it mediation, instead of joining an organization which fights all the time and does the "dirty work"

Hence why he's not the leader. If you noticed, Jiren only decides to do something when someone tries to nuke the arena (like Kale or RiBri did). In my mind, he was the 'last resort' choice of the Pride Troopers incase anything got too heated for even Toppo to handle.

My question is, how did they even manage to get him on board if he dosen't care in the first place..
It's not like you can force the guy, unless other troopers are actually holding his family hostage and that's what kicks off the next arc

[perucho1990]

If Toei were smart they couldve added more interactions between Jiren and Toppo, to know more about their characters.

[omaro34]

Why is he a pride trooper if he dosen't want to fight with 'evil' unless he realllly has to anyway? It's not like there are many people ( or any ) that would require him to fight..
He could just be like Piccolo and goof off in the ruins calling it mediation, instead of joining an organization which fights all the time and does the "dirty work"

Hence why he's not the leader. If you noticed, Jiren only decides to do something when someone tries to nuke the arena (like Kale or RiBri did). In my mind, he was the 'last resort' choice of the Pride Troopers incase anything got too heated for even Toppo to handle.

My question is, how did they even manage to get him on board if he dosen't care in the first place..
It's not like you can force the guy, unless other troopers are actually holding his family hostage and that's what kicks off the next arc

He's forced to join because of the consequences of what happens when a universe loses in a tournament.

[Ki Breaker]

Hence why he's not the leader. If you noticed, Jiren only decides to do something when someone tries to nuke the arena (like Kale or RiBri did). In my mind, he was the 'last resort' choice of the Pride Troopers incase anything got too heated for even Toppo to handle.

My question is, how did they even manage to get him on board if he dosen't care in the first place..
It's not like you can force the guy, unless other troopers are actually holding his family hostage and that's what kicks off the next arc

He's forced to join because of the consequences of what happens when a universe loses in a tournament.

He was a member of pride troopers before this

[Doctor.]

If Toei were smart they couldve added more interactions between Jiren and Toppo, to know more about their characters.

They tried. Jiren didn't say a word.

[Shinda Forever]

I like how quickly you drop characters that don't perform. Seriously. It's refreshing over the typical endless spinning that other fans do for their favorites.

Thanks.

I really don't get why you have been watching Super since Dragonball was always like that, as you are saying yourself... There isn't a single exceptiok to that rule. Also liking a characyer just because is strong is pretty stupid, but that's just my opinion.
The rival of an arc is weak on the next one. Always. Did you really expected Jiren to be at a similar level o Hit or something? Last time he had a draw with normal SSB Goku, he's not even at a level similar to his Kaioken. And if Hit is not going to return as you are saying (but I doubt it) I won't really have a problem with it since he's pretty much a pale copy of Jotaro but nowhere as interesting as a supporting character.

Anyway, I don't see why you think Toriyama forced Toei to do anything. He just writed barebones, that has been confirmed a lot time ago. If you want to blame someone, blame Toei because of making Dyspo's first appareance so underwhelming. Toriyama had nothing to do with it.

DB wasn't always like that. Vegeta became a main character and Frieza came back stronger than Goku and Vegeta in the movie and currently he is stronger than Vegeta. How do you know Toriyama had nothing to do with it?

I like how Hit's fan must be Vegeta's hater at the same time. Like WTF, what is the correlation? And I am glad your assassin's gonna need Goku to help him out. The only character who was stupidly strong in the anime was Hit. Did you expect him to be the strongest guy around for the whole time? Hit ended like every other main antagonist in every arc. He was sidelined. Maybe not yet, but this process already started. Jobbing to Vegeta will be a great final of Hit The Legendary Assassin .

I'm not a Vegeta hater, i just tell you the truth like when you were arguing that Vegeta was stronger than Frieza and this scan confirmed i was right.
As i always said, i expected Hitto to be in the top 4. Vegeta is going to crush Hitto like a rag doll, probably with a single punch.

If Goku really goes SSG to deal with an opponent that can beat Hit, then Hit's being nerfed to his manga level

Exactly, Hitto is officially a bum, probably he will be eliminated by Dyspo.

DB was ALWAYS like thag. Your examples have nothing to do with what I said. Both Vegeta and Frieza were threated like useless fodder in the next arc they were introduced (Vegeta in his second arc, Namek, and Frieza in his second one, Androids). Vegeta came back on a third arc because the plot needed him to, and that is not Hit's case at all, just like previous enemies didn't returned. Frieza is in fact an exception since as Toriyama said himself, RoF was full of fanservice. He returning this second time can also be another sugestiom from Toei/Shueisha/whoever. Anyway, my point still stands. This is Hit's second arc, if you expected him to still be usefull, then I don't know why you keep watching DB.

How do YOU know Toriyama had something to do with it? We have been told he writes barebones, with only certain scenes being writtwn in detail. Super is a Toei and Toyotaro product, not a Toriyama one. Thwy are who decide everything that happens, as long as it doesn't contradict Toriyama's outlines. Are you seriously expecting people to believe that Toriyama wrote specifically "Hit is too OP in the anime, nerf him to manga level". It's a nonsense. If anything, maybe, I repeat, maybe, he wrote that Hit would have problems with Dyspo and Goku would help him. In that case, again, Toei is the only one to blame since they didn't hype Dyspo enough. Toriyama has nothing to do with it. If you are just annoyed because he doesn't (seem to) have plans for Hit on the future, again, this is how DB works. Every second arc for an old rival makes him look like fodder. There isn't a single exception to that rule, specially in the Super anime version.

No, DB wasn't ALWAYS LIKE THAT. Tenshinhan wasn't fodder in the 23 budokai neither Piccolo when he fought Goku in the same tournament or when Goku and Piccolo fought against Raditz. Hitto was ssj blue level in the anime and he did quite well in the rematch against Goku. Toriyama is writing the outlines to both anime and manga, therefore, he must be held accountable when Hitto who was nerfed in the manga is now being nerfed in the anime as well, because, Toyataro is sending them outlines about what he is doing in the manga meaning that they want anime and manga to converge together.
Toei cannot be blamed since they hyped Hitto to ssj blue level while Toriyama and Toyataro nerfed Hitto to ssj God level, why do you think ssjG is returning to the anime?

[Lionel]

For all of Kahseral's build up, he was one of the most unremarkable members of the Pride Troopers. I found Tupper and Zoiray to be more interesting than the man who can "create any weapon out of Ki". It's likely a byproduct of the studio not having the time, commitment and willingness to write more originally for a fighter who is only being used to facilitate Kale's character development. Jiren isn't much better -- there was no reason for him to spare an opponent as dangerous as Kale. She survived purely by the machinations of the studio. It reflects poorly on Jiren's competency as a rival when he's only knocking opponents unconscious instead of ringing them out in a setting that necessitates out of bounds eliminations.

The whole "create any weapon out of Ki" kad potential, he couldve greated a Gun made of Ki to attempt to destroy 17s barrier. They couldve fixed Jiren KOing Kale by just having Hit use tokitobashi and rescue Kale from being out of bounds like he did with Caulifla earlier.

I found Majora from U4 very underrated, he has better feats than 50% of the Pride Troopers(she sent 18 on the ground with a kick) and only lost because of a gag scene.

More than just a simple gun for Kahseral to shoot with. Get more creative with the kinds of weapons used. Think of something like the spring loaded triple dagger which, when a button installed on the weapon is used, projects diagonally two extended blades that could be used to slash the opponent even as they're dodging. A lantern shield fitted with potential offensive qualities like blades could be used to blind and defend the enemy. For extra unpredictability, he could fit himself with ten rings with miniature guns attached to them all. Believe it or not such an accessory does exist in real life.

They could have done that but opted instead to diminish Jiren's competency for whatever reason. I suppose it wouldn't be as emotionally endearing if Caulifla wasn't allowed to rescue her defeated teammate.

Majora did have a unique style of clothing and physical traits. I have to confess to him being one of my favourite new characters introduced during the tournament. He's got an interesting style of combat. Plus, a blind martial artist who relies on their other senses to fight sounds more unique by DB standards, in my opinion.

[Ki Breaker]

If Toei were smart they couldve added more interactions between Jiren and Toppo, to know more about their characters.

They tried. Jiren didn't say a word.

Who knew it would be this hard to make him cooperate..
Where's Arale when you need her anyway

[omaro34]

If Toei were smart they couldve added more interactions between Jiren and Toppo, to know more about their characters.

They tried. Jiren didn't say a word.

Pikkon, Piccolo, and Hit are all very similar to Jiren. That's why he's unoriginal. At least Piccolo now has a personality though, but he wasn't always that way. We've seen the arms crossed while making a badass entrance before. We've seen the meditations, and the no nonsense attitudes.

In generic terms, and to be blunt, its simply just recycling the same character from a basic standpoint and using a new design; and unless we see more from Jiren, I'll maintain this stance.

[perucho1990]

Paikuhan was more smug and arrogant(like End of DB Piccolo), Hit is more like Jotaro without the delinquents aspects.

In Jirens case, idk but I feel like Toriyama created him as the Anti Saitama(Bald, overpowered Hero), but he isnt even 1% as entertaining as the Caped Baldy.

[Doctor.]

If Toei were smart they couldve added more interactions between Jiren and Toppo, to know more about their characters.

They tried. Jiren didn't say a word.

Pikkon, Piccolo, and Hit are all very similar to Jiren. That's why he's unoriginal. At least Piccolo now has a personality though, but he wasn't always that way. We've seen the arms crossed while making a badass entrance before. We've seen the meditations, and the no nonsense attitudes.

In generic terms, and to be blunt, its simply just recycling the same character from a basic standpoint and using a new design; and unless we see more from Jiren, I'll maintain this stance.

Hit at least has opened up to Goku (same with Paikuhan) and is cooperating with his teammates. Jiren is just a mute.

[Shaqazooloo]

It looks like EVERY single character that got decent build up leading into the tournament is fodder or is going to the job and people that received no build up or looked horrible going into this, are the actual threats apparently. That would explain why they effed Krillin so hard without even giving him a reach around, as well as why the universe 3 guys sucked so much ass and why a character that almost got beat by some hentai monstar is gonna give a character like Hit a problem. Though if this is the case... Gohan's in some serious trouble...

Or Toei just doesn't care about consistency.

[perucho1990]

But Paikuhan never got to become popular in Japan like Hit did, for a reason Paikuhan got buried and humilliated in Movie 12.

[omaro34]

But Paikuhan never got to become popular in Japan like Hit did, for a reason Paikuhan got buried and humilliated in Movie 12.

I consider it a damn shame Paikuhan never got popular in Japan. I liked his techniques, and would have been interesting to see him interact with Piccolo, sadly we never saw this even in the movies.

Jiren has the basic personalities of all those characters I mentioned on a surface level which is just a mute, powerful, stoic mediating character that rarely says anything to anyone.