Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Skar]

Frankly, I think keeping up with all these new transformations is a pain. Super Saiyan God was a neat idea at the time, but I’m not a fan of the precedent that it set. At best, this obsession with giving characters flashy makeovers makes Dragon Ball feel like a toy commercial, which I suppose isn’t too far off the mark.

I wasn't a fan of Gohan's form but Orange Piccolo is basically the same as Garlic Jr and Bojack's transformations. They grow bigger and change skin color. I guess something like it happened before but unexpected that Toriyama would use it for Piccolo. It would've been funny those old villains called themselves Blue Garlic Jr or Green Bojack. How about Gold & Purple Nova Shenron! I wouldn't mind if there weren't any new transformations in Super Hero since it feels kinda late in the series for them to catch up now. That might be the only thing I didn't like about the film because the rest sounds fun.

[TheMikado]

Frankly, I think keeping up with all these new transformations is a pain. Super Saiyan God was a neat idea at the time, but I’m not a fan of the precedent that it set. At best, this obsession with giving characters flashy makeovers makes Dragon Ball feel like a toy commercial, which I suppose isn’t too far off the mark.

It didn't set anything. Dragon Ball has been like this since Z. Z gave us Super Saiyan, the Graded Super Saiyan forms, Super Saiyan 2, and then Super Saiyan 3. The only thing Super added were the heroes non-Saiyans characters getting forms and new forms that isn't just branches of Super Saiyan.

Hard disagree

We got more unique transformations and skills that were actually explained. And usually only villains had multi-stage unexplained transformations. The crew always had to “earn” them over the course of a long arc.

First Arc in “Z”. Alien brother shows up, no transformations just techniques to beat him.

Saiyan arc, fight only transformations were oozaru which called back to original DB and was fully explained. You had techniques like kaioken that Goku had to travel snake way and train with King Kai to even get. Also spirit bomb technique.

Namek Arc, then only transformations was Xarbon who explained it as always having it just didn’t like to use it because it made him ugly. You had unique skills with the Ginyu force. Also Namek fusion with Nail. Zenkais got out of control, but whatever at least they were new forms every two seconds.

Frieza Arc, Frieza has all those different forms because he’s the villain. Goku goes SSJ after hinting at it for what seemed like forever.

Android arc, everybody gets SSJ. Android don’t transform, just Cell after a very complex future plot. You then have graded forms but all are just catalysts to a true form of SSJ2. Also Kami Piccolo and instant transmission appear.

Buu arc, SSJ3 transformation and Ultimate Gohan. Buu transforms like play dough and likely by design. You have 2 different types of fusion, crazy techniques, Majin Vegeta, etc. spirit bomb call back also.

Super has forms and transformations just happening with no build up and when plot convenient. SSG was new and we just accepted it as a one time thing, then comes SSB with Vegeta and Golden Frieza. We got SSB x kaioken for some reason, still don’t know what Future Trunks false/imperfect SSB form was or where it came from.. UI as a technique somehow causes a transformation and Vegeta Ego form does whatever. Of course ignoring the movie forms like Brolys transformations abs whatever orange and beast stuff are.

Lastly won’t even touch on the rehash if so many themes and characters. Frieza, Future Trunks, Cell, even Broly all are rehashed as central arcs.

Z had far far far more originality.

[MasenkoHA]

Frankly, I think keeping up with all these new transformations is a pain. Super Saiyan God was a neat idea at the time, but I’m not a fan of the precedent that it set. At best, this obsession with giving characters flashy makeovers makes Dragon Ball feel like a toy commercial, which I suppose isn’t too far off the mark.

It didn't set anything. Dragon Ball has been like this since Z. Z gave us Super Saiyan, the Graded Super Saiyan forms, Super Saiyan 2, and then Super Saiyan 3. The only thing Super added were the heroes non-Saiyans characters getting forms and new forms that isn't just branches of Super Saiyan.

The difference is other than Super Saiyan 3 most of those forms didn't look all that different. To the point Toriyama forgot all about anything betwen 1 and 3 and referred to Super Saiyan 3 as 2. Those graded forms ended up being useless anyways and Super Saiyan 2 was passed over pretty quickly for 3 which mostly existed to give Gotenks an easy excuse to match up with Super Buu.


With all these color variants in the Super era it is hard to ignore that selling toys isn't the main objective here, as WittyUsername suggested. It does feel much more like a toy commercial than it did before.

[jjbgood]

Frankly, I think keeping up with all these new transformations is a pain. Super Saiyan God was a neat idea at the time, but I’m not a fan of the precedent that it set. At best, this obsession with giving characters flashy makeovers makes Dragon Ball feel like a toy commercial, which I suppose isn’t too far off the mark.

It didn't set anything. Dragon Ball has been like this since Z. Z gave us Super Saiyan, the Graded Super Saiyan forms, Super Saiyan 2, and then Super Saiyan 3. The only thing Super added were the heroes non-Saiyans characters getting forms and new forms that isn't just branches of Super Saiyan.

There is a difference. Back then there was a transformations for all of them to achive (at least theoratically). They all had the same Super Saiyan Transformation. Now everyone gets their own - wich is a good concept, if done right - but to set them apart everyone gets also his own color and so on. We now basically hit Power Rangers territory. Red, Blue, Green, White, Rosé, Purple, Orange, Grey... its a full rainbow now and its not gonna stop anytime soon. I'm really not a fan of this. And i think the basic colors of the original were much better suited to make it look serious and mature. Now it looks like a kid show wich parodies Dragon Ball.

[ankokudaishogun]

The only thing Super added were the heroes non-Saiyans characters getting forms and new forms that isn't just branches of Super Saiyan.

Freeza, Cell, Buu and Oozaru would want a word with you

[Miracles]

Does anyone know when official Japanese English subbed dialogue will be available? I heard August over in North America?

[HeroR]

The only thing Super added were the heroes non-Saiyans characters getting forms and new forms that isn't just branches of Super Saiyan.

Freeza, Cell, Buu and Oozaru would want a word with you

I was talking about the heroes’ transformations.

Frankly, I think keeping up with all these new transformations is a pain. Super Saiyan God was a neat idea at the time, but I’m not a fan of the precedent that it set. At best, this obsession with giving characters flashy makeovers makes Dragon Ball feel like a toy commercial, which I suppose isn’t too far off the mark.

It didn't set anything. Dragon Ball has been like this since Z. Z gave us Super Saiyan, the Graded Super Saiyan forms, Super Saiyan 2, and then Super Saiyan 3. The only thing Super added were the heroes non-Saiyans characters getting forms and new forms that isn't just branches of Super Saiyan.

The difference is other than Super Saiyan 3 most of those forms didn't look all that different. To the point Toriyama forgot all about anything betwen 1 and 3 and referred to Super Saiyan 3 as 2. Those graded forms ended up being useless anyways and Super Saiyan 2 was passed over pretty quickly for 3 which mostly existed to give Gotenks an easy excuse to match up with Super Buu.


With all these color variants in the Super era it is hard to ignore that selling toys isn't the main objective here, as WittyUsername suggested. It does feel much more like a toy commercial than it did before.

Selling toys is an old and worn out line that has little basics in reality. We had someone here who tracked merch and they pointed out Super was horrible with merch. Like we still have almost no Super Saiyan 2 Kale merch, Super Saiyan God is underrepresented, you hardly see Super Saiyan Rage, ect. The only merch they constantly make are Super Saiyan, Blue, Rose,
and UI. Even SSBE barely get merch.

Also, the forms being useless doesn’t change the fact they exist and this is just the heroes. All the villains in Z had forms.

Frankly, I think keeping up with all these new transformations is a pain. Super Saiyan God was a neat idea at the time, but I’m not a fan of the precedent that it set. At best, this obsession with giving characters flashy makeovers makes Dragon Ball feel like a toy commercial, which I suppose isn’t too far off the mark.

It didn't set anything. Dragon Ball has been like this since Z. Z gave us Super Saiyan, the Graded Super Saiyan forms, Super Saiyan 2, and then Super Saiyan 3. The only thing Super added were the heroes non-Saiyans characters getting forms and new forms that isn't just branches of Super Saiyan.

There is a difference. Back then there was a transformations for all of them to achive (at least theoratically). They all had the same Super Saiyan Transformation. Now everyone gets their own - wich is a good concept, if done right - but to set them apart everyone gets also his own color and so on. We now basically hit Power Rangers territory. Red, Blue, Green, White, Rosé, Purple, Orange, Grey... its a full rainbow now and its not gonna stop anytime soon. I'm really not a fan of this. And i think the basic colors of the original were much better suited to make it look serious and mature. Now it looks like a kid show wich parodies Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball has never been mature. It had mature moments, it was still very much rooted in a Gag manga and color forms couldn’t work back then since the manga was black/white. Also, what’s more serious and mature about people’s hair getting bigger and turning gold?

Also, Green existed in Z since it was carried over from OG Broly.

[Skar]

We now basically hit Power Rangers territory. Red, Blue, Green, White, Rosé, Purple, Orange, Grey... its a full rainbow now and its not gonna stop anytime soon.

It might stop now after covering all the main colors. After UI, only purple and orange were left to use. Vegeta got purple and orange went to Piccolo maybe because it would've been too similar to the regular SSJ forms for a Saiyan. Most of the new forms have been different colored variations of base and SSJ1 so I don't expect a drastic change in hairstyle. Beast Gohan was an exception since it seemed to be based on SSJ2 but with double the spiky hair. Video games have a few SSJ3 inspired forms with different colors and eyebrows added.

[WittyUsername]

I just want to point out for the record that the Super Saiyan grade forms were basically just Super Saiyan with extra muscle mass, and were pretty much abandoned after Cell. Compared to the original run, Super definitely feels more reliant on giving the heroes new forms almost every arc. Did this movie really need to give Piccolo not just one, but two new forms?

[HeroR]

I just want to point out for the record that the Super Saiyan grade forms were basically just Super Saiyan with extra muscle mass, and were pretty much abandoned after Cell. Compared to the original run, Super definitely feels more reliant on giving the heroes new forms almost every arc. Did this movie really need to give Piccolo not just one, but two new forms?

Piccolo was playing catch-up since he never had a transformations.

As for Super being depending on forms more than Z, I disagree. SSB remained the main transformation up to Broly with SSBE basically a Blue version of the Grade Super Saiyan forms. UI hasn’t been seen in animation since the TOP outside of Heroes and UI came in 110 in a 131 episode series. There was no new forms for the heroes in the Champa Saga and the Future Saga, Blue Kaioken isn’t a new form. Trunks’ Super Saiyan Rage is just called ‘Super Saiyan’ in everything. It was only called Rage in Heroes, so it’s basically a Grade Super Saiyan form. Broly would just have Super Saiyan, but was given Super Saiyan Full Power as a legacy form. And it isn’t even classified as a new form since Dokkan and Legends put it under Super Saiyan.

[FortuneSSJ]

Did this movie really need to give Piccolo not just one, but two new forms?

No. One was enough.

[WittyUsername]

I just want to point out for the record that the Super Saiyan grade forms were basically just Super Saiyan with extra muscle mass, and were pretty much abandoned after Cell. Compared to the original run, Super definitely feels more reliant on giving the heroes new forms almost every arc. Did this movie really need to give Piccolo not just one, but two new forms?

Piccolo was playing catch-up since he never had a transformations.

As for Super being depending on forms more than Z, I disagree. SSB remained the main transformation up to Broly with SSBE basically a Blue version of the Grade Super Saiyan forms. UI hasn’t been seen in animation since the TOP outside of Heroes and UI came in 110 in a 131 episode series. There was no new forms for the heroes in the Champa Saga and the Future Saga, Blue Kaioken isn’t a new form. Trunks’ Super Saiyan Rage is just called ‘Super Saiyan’ in everything. It was only called Rage in Heroes, so it’s basically a Grade Super Saiyan form. Broly would just have Super Saiyan, but was given Super Saiyan Full Power as a legacy form. And it isn’t even classified as a new form since Dokkan and Legends put it under Super Saiyan.

I don’t see why Piccolo would need to transform to play catch up. You can have him become stronger without it. Dragon Ball is no stranger to that.

I actually would agree that counting stuff like Blue Kaioken and Trunks’ rage form as new transformations might be a stretch, especially since they weren’t part of Toriyama’s outlines, but transformations in general feel like far more of a gimmick in Super than they ever did in the original run.

Consider this; in terms of the four post-revival movies, BoG introduced Super Saiyan God, RF introduced Super Saiyan Blue, Broly didn’t technically introduce a new form, other than the Ikari thing, but it did introduce Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta, and now there’s this movie.

I also think it’s silly how they’ve been doing this color coding thing with the new forms. We now have yellow, red, blue, pink, white, purple, and orange.

[HeroR]

I just want to point out for the record that the Super Saiyan grade forms were basically just Super Saiyan with extra muscle mass, and were pretty much abandoned after Cell. Compared to the original run, Super definitely feels more reliant on giving the heroes new forms almost every arc. Did this movie really need to give Piccolo not just one, but two new forms?

Piccolo was playing catch-up since he never had a transformations.

As for Super being depending on forms more than Z, I disagree. SSB remained the main transformation up to Broly with SSBE basically a Blue version of the Grade Super Saiyan forms. UI hasn’t been seen in animation since the TOP outside of Heroes and UI came in 110 in a 131 episode series. There was no new forms for the heroes in the Champa Saga and the Future Saga, Blue Kaioken isn’t a new form. Trunks’ Super Saiyan Rage is just called ‘Super Saiyan’ in everything. It was only called Rage in Heroes, so it’s basically a Grade Super Saiyan form. Broly would just have Super Saiyan, but was given Super Saiyan Full Power as a legacy form. And it isn’t even classified as a new form since Dokkan and Legends put it under Super Saiyan.

I don’t see why Piccolo would need to transform to play catch up. You can have him become stronger without it. Dragon Ball is no stranger to that.

I actually would agree that counting stuff like Blue Kaioken and Trunks’ rage form as new transformations might be a stretch, especially since they weren’t part of Toriyama’s outlines, but transformations in general feel like far more of a gimmick in Super than they ever did in the original run.

Consider this; in terms of the four post-revival movies, BoG introduced Super Saiyan God, RF introduced Super Saiyan Blue, Broly didn’t technically introduce a new form, other than the Ikari thing, but it did introduce Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta, and now there’s this movie.

I also think it’s silly how they’ve been doing this color coding thing with the new forms. We now have yellow, red, blue, pink, white, purple, and orange.

Because why not. Piccolo has remained the same for literal decades. So just making him stronger have been done.

Not seeing Super’s transformions as a gimmick when Dragon Ball Z had several failed transformations as you mentioned and all the villains had several forms with Buu being the record. Dragon Ball Z also introduced Fusions if you’re going to include Gogeta Blue.

I’m not seeing the issue people have with colors since they were impossible to do in a black/white manga. Especially when before it was making the hair wilder and more muscles. Like, how is that objectively better?

[WittyUsername]

Piccolo was playing catch-up since he never had a transformations.

As for Super being depending on forms more than Z, I disagree. SSB remained the main transformation up to Broly with SSBE basically a Blue version of the Grade Super Saiyan forms. UI hasn’t been seen in animation since the TOP outside of Heroes and UI came in 110 in a 131 episode series. There was no new forms for the heroes in the Champa Saga and the Future Saga, Blue Kaioken isn’t a new form. Trunks’ Super Saiyan Rage is just called ‘Super Saiyan’ in everything. It was only called Rage in Heroes, so it’s basically a Grade Super Saiyan form. Broly would just have Super Saiyan, but was given Super Saiyan Full Power as a legacy form. And it isn’t even classified as a new form since Dokkan and Legends put it under Super Saiyan.

I don’t see why Piccolo would need to transform to play catch up. You can have him become stronger without it. Dragon Ball is no stranger to that.

I actually would agree that counting stuff like Blue Kaioken and Trunks’ rage form as new transformations might be a stretch, especially since they weren’t part of Toriyama’s outlines, but transformations in general feel like far more of a gimmick in Super than they ever did in the original run.

Consider this; in terms of the four post-revival movies, BoG introduced Super Saiyan God, RF introduced Super Saiyan Blue, Broly didn’t technically introduce a new form, other than the Ikari thing, but it did introduce Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta, and now there’s this movie.

I also think it’s silly how they’ve been doing this color coding thing with the new forms. We now have yellow, red, blue, pink, white, purple, and orange.

Because why not. Piccolo has remained the same for literal decades. So just making him stronger have been done.

Not seeing Super’s transformions as a gimmick when Dragon Ball Z had several failed transformations as you mentioned and all the villains had several forms with Buu being the record. Dragon Ball Z also introduced Fusions if you’re going to include Gogeta Blue.

I’m not seeing the issue people have with colors since they were impossible to do in a black/white manga. Especially when before it was making the hair wilder and more muscles. Like, how is that objectively better?

I didn’t say anything about the old transformations being better. I just don’t like how the whole concept is being used as a crux these days.

[Luso Saiyan]

You mean like in the anime... The 3rd canon or whatever Goku used it against Black first fight or in the ToP?

I mean that that's the direction Toriyama chose going forward:

"Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more." - Akira Toriyama

It's also a way to simplify things in a logical fashion. The more powerful and bulkier you get, the more drawbacks you have too.

[Skar]

I’m not seeing the issue people have with colors since they were impossible to do in a black/white manga. Especially when before it was making the hair wilder and more muscles. Like, how is that objectively better?

I think it's about how far it's taken. If you went back like 15 years, I'm sure someone would've predicted that an official sequel would use different colors for transformations since every sequel official or fanmade used them. No one would've predicted that almost every possible color would be used. A common argument for the revival was that Toriyama preferred simple non bulky transformations as to why he didn't have any like the old movie movie forms. That works for Piccolo's potential unlock form since it only made him a lighter shade of green and removed the lines on his arms but not Orange Piccolo.

[Tai Lung]

I think this clears up the continuities....

1.- Anime Super - Broly Movie - Super Hero

2.- Manga Super

[Michsi]

Did this movie really need to give Piccolo not just one, but two new forms?

No. One was enough.

In Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.

[Lord Beerus]

Did this movie really need to give Piccolo not just one, but two new forms?

No. One was enough.

In Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.

You made my day. Thanks Michsi.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I think this clears up the continuities....

1.- Anime Super - Broly Movie - Super Hero

2.- Manga Super

Which makes sense. The films tend to factor into the medium that its expected audience will have seen, the anime.