GT or Super? Which one is the best?

[sintzu]

I can't find a photo but there was an official Dragon Ball timeline that included both Super and GT as part of story. So despite DBS contradicting canon a lot by itself, then connected it with GT which creates even more issues. This could be from some guidebook or event. I am not sure now. It had to be somewhere in news here as well.

I don't even know what is more bullshit. Power levels or canon.

I posted the photo here more than once. It had DB up till GT which shows they haven't dropped GT completely but like I said, they don't fit (yet) in the same timeline.

[Grimlock]

Being part of the main continuity or not is completely irrelevant from marketing point of view. Just because someone saw Dragon Ball GT in a timeline depicting the years of events don't mean anything. It's not even something new, guidebooks already did that.

[Robo4900]

Yeah look where that got us. Goku's time. We got a series with exactly one useful character.

If your definition of useful is purely restricted to the character being one of the big guns in the fights.
Let's be real here, almost everyone in the cast in GT got a moment in the story where they could shine, often ending up being a touching conclusion to their character's story; Piccolo sacrified himself to save Goku, and spent his last moments consoling and saying farewell to Gohan; Boo and Mr. Satan got some sweet moments together before Boo and Oob merged, leading to the tournament episode, in which Mr. Satan was in a bit of a slump, which Oob helped him out of thanks to Boo's influence, and Mr. Satan's adoring fans, of course; Vegeta spent some time with his daughter, and showed a somewhat more sensitive side, showing a lot of growth in him, and through a lot of his actions and such in the series, he basically overall shows that while he's still the same Vegeta we all know, he's mellowed out a lot, and is pretty chill with the idea of Kakarot being stronger than he is(After all, he did have the "Kakarot... You are No. 1!" inner monologue in the Boo arc, which was a pretty big character beat, that necessitates following up on... Ignoring that would just be inconsistent characterisation, and bad writing... *Looks sideways at Super*), but he's still Vegeta, so he's still going to keep training until the day he finally reaches the ceiling of his power, but he's not so obsessed with surpassing Kakarot anymore. In fact, he was even willing to do a fusion with him, and he openly admitted that without fusion, they wouldn't stand a chance against Super Yi Xing Long. A lot of character growth there.

Most of the character moments in GT don't involve fighting, the real meat of GT really is in the stuff between the fights, so while it is true that Goku ends up being the guy who fights everyone, given the progression everyone was having throughout the franchise, that outcome is really the one that makes the most sense in the position GT is in. But that doesn't mean Goku's the only relevant character, far from it, but if all you came to watch is the fights, then sure, you'll probably be a little disappointed that Vegeta and Piccolo aren't in space kicking ass...

But if all you came to watch is the fights with no regards to characterisation or storytelling, then... Well... I guess Super is the series for you...
Nothing wrong with that I guess, I just wish Super had good characterisation and storytelling so we could all enjoy it, rather than the fandom's current, very divided position.

I can't find a photo but there was an official Dragon Ball timeline that included both Super and GT as part of story. So despite DBS contradicting canon a lot by itself, then connected it with GT which creates even more issues. This could be from some guidebook or event. I am not sure now. It had to be somewhere in news here as well.

I don't even know what is more bullshit. Power levels or canon.

I posted the photo here more than once. It had DB up till GT which shows they haven't dropped GT completely but like I said, they don't fit (yet) in the same timeline.

Haha. I always kinda hoped that might be the case.

I really hope they stick to that, if only to see how the internet reacts when the official explanation for how Super connects up to GT comes out. It'll be hilarious.

Honestly, though, I always did hope GT would connect up somehow. I don't mind if it ends up not being canonical to Super's timeline, since that gives the chance for the neat little boxes to sort the canon into of the new continuity(DB, Kai, Super), and the old continuity(DB, Z, GT, the TV specials, and the broad strokes of Z movie 1, and the introduction of Hiya Dragon from Z movie 3). But it would be nice to have everything fit on one neat little timeline.

[snop]

Indeed!

I think for Super to work properly, Toriyama and Toyotaro should be allowed to make their manga on a weekly or biweekly(As in, every two weeks) schedule, then Toei base their anime on that. Toyotaro has done a pretty great job thus far of actualising Toriyama's stories into pretty good manga, and while it's definitely still a huge step-down from the old stuff, it's a fun thing to read every month, and I always look forward to reading the next chapter.
It's still got a lot of the awkwardness in it, and I think it's pretty clear Toyotaro is much more into it than Toriyama is, but given the fact he does talk back and forth with Toyotaro about each chapter, and he occasionally draws a panel or two, I think it's pretty clear he is at least on-board with making more Dragon Ball. It's just that he ends up much more hands-on with the making of the manga than the anime, so it feels a lot more Toriyama-esque.

Anyway, the schedule I'm proposing with a weekly anime wouldn't work so well, since we'd end up submerged in filler again, but here's the crux of what I think Super should change about its production: I think it should switch to being seasonal. The manga tells its story, then the anime has a 15-25-episode season, depending on how many they think they need, in which they adapt the last arc, or perhaps just half of it, if the arc is still in progress when the time comes for them to adapt it, and of course, they can add slice of life episodes in there if they want too, those often end up very good... While that's going on, the manga slowly moves ahead with its next story. It could work pretty nicely, and it would end up making the anime and manga a much more consistent pairing, compared to how it is now, where you get oddities like the entire climax of the Black arc being totally different between versions.

[sintzu]

I really hope they stick to that, if only to see how the internet reacts when the official explanation for how Super connects up to GT comes out. It'll be hilarious.

Honestly, though, I always did hope GT would connect up somehow. I don't mind if it ends up not being canonical to Super's timeline, since that gives the chance for the neat little boxes to sort the canon into of the new continuity(DB, Kai, Super), and the old continuity(DB, Z, GT, the TV specials, and the broad strokes of Z movie 1, and the introduction of Hiya Dragon from Z movie 3). But it would be nice to have everything fit on one neat little timeline.

In the new heroes animated trailer they have Blue Goku fighting with Ssj4 Goku so with that in mind and the fact GT is still profitable and being marketed, I think we'll eventually see something with it. How, When and what is anyone's guess but there's potential, that's for sure.

[PsionicWarrior]

...

Your quote is wrong it's not me you're quoting

Yeah sorry I realized it after I posted it and now it wont let me delete it.

I don't get this editing restriction in these forums, why can't I edit a post I made past 2 hrs

[PsionicWarrior]

What? I thought all he did was some drawings

No. He was actually involved a lot more than people think. Geekdom broke it all down very well a while ago.

I'm sorry it's hard for me to watch that video as I know all this stuff so can you point it to the part where it says:

helped figure out the scenario, and advised on the story ideas used in the first arc.

Because it clearly says the story was written by the Toei staff and not by Toriyama around 11m30 lol
So yeah he did mostly drawings and he came up with the name my bad forgetting about that one earlier lol

So yeah I watched it entirely and that was a real pain to watch because the guy keeps saying he will blow my mind while all he says is common knowledge lol
So unless I missed that part you made it up lol

[Robo4900]

I don't get this editing restriction in these forums, why can't I edit a post I made past 2 hrs

I imagine it's so people don't try to gaslight everyone by changing what they previously said. With people like Enigmo in the fandom, it's not a bad idea to restrict this. Besides, small mistakes like this are made obvious by subsequent posts.

So yeah I watched it entirely and that was a real pain to watch because the guy keeps saying he will blow my mind while all he says is common knowledge lol
So unless I missed that part you made it up lol

lol maybe i was lying lol to push my agenda lol...

The producers and such at Toei pitched the idea of doing an anime in the timeskip between Boo and the ending tournament. It was decided by Toriyama and the staff at Jump to set it after Z.
Toriyama was involved in the meetings deciding what to do with GT in the beginning.
Toriyama looked over and approved all the story ideas they used in the early run.
Toriyama also approved Goku becoming a kid again.
The creative team decided to go with focusing the story on Goku, as they felt Dragon Ball is the story of Goku. The creative team did include Toriyama, so this was also a Toriyama-approved idea.

He also talks about Toriyama doing the designs, and later on there's a whole thing about why it came to an end. It's not all common knowledge.

Common "Knowledge" would tell you Toei came up with the whole idea on their own, and had Toriyama draw a couple of things for them, then they did everything on their own, but Japan hated it so much, it bombed and failed after 64 episodes.
If anyone tried to tell this to me, I would have to quote Luke Skywalker at them: "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong."

[Cetra]

If anyone tried to tell this to me, I would have to quote Luke Skywalker at them: "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong."

I was waiting for this comment to appear in an internet dicussion.

[Robo4900]

I was waiting for this comment to appear in an internet dicussion.

I'm quite pleased that I've finally been able to use it.

Now I've just gotta find somewhere to use "Double dumbass on you!"

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't get this editing restriction in these forums, why can't I edit a post I made past 2 hrs

I imagine it's so people don't try to gaslight everyone by changing what they previously said. With people like Enigmo in the fandom, it's not a bad idea to restrict this. Besides, small mistakes like this are made obvious by subsequent posts.

A couple of users (one now gone, another who still occasionally posts) decided to erase all of their content, replacing it with "." a few years back. Another user, now banned, made a thread throwing a tantrum because he could no longer read some posts in some ancient threads. The admins overreacted, and made it to where now edits have a two hour or so time limit, aside from the OP.

I said it was dumb then, and I still think it's dumb, but it's not my call. Normally I agree with the admins here, but whatever.

[WittyUsername]

Looking back, I would consider the two shows to be comparable in terms of quality, but I suppose that if I had to choose which one manages to be better overall, I’m a bit more inclined to give it to Super.

Both shows have their own sets of problems, but I think the big thing that gives Super the edge are a lot of the slice of life episodes and the way that it manages to incorporate new concepts and ideas into the franchise. GT didn’t do enough new things with the series. A lot of aspects of the Baby arc were taken from both Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans (for anyone who might not know, that story for that OVA originated in 1993) and the Garlic Jr. saga. Meanwhile, the Super 17 arc borrowed the whole “villains escaping from Hell to invade Earth” thing from movie 12. While Super does often have the problem of being pandering too much to nostalgia and fanservice for its own good, I can certainly say that an evil Kaioshin with a severe God-complex is something that Dragon Ball hasn’t done before. The same thing goes for the idea of a battle royale of 80 fighters from different universes. These ideas may not have been executed as well as they could’ve been (in my opinion) but I can at least say that they brought something new to the franchise.

[Lupin Vegeta]

GT killed Dragon Ball for me and Super revived it.

[PsionicWarrior]

The producers and such at Toei pitched the idea of doing an anime in the timeskip between Boo and the ending tournament. It was decided by Toriyama and the staff at Jump to set it after Z.
Toriyama was involved in the meetings deciding what to do with GT in the beginning.
Toriyama looked over and approved all the story ideas they used in the early run.
Toriyama also approved Goku becoming a kid again.
The creative team decided to go with focusing the story on Goku, as they felt Dragon Ball is the story of Goku. The creative team did include Toriyama, so this was also a Toriyama-approved idea.

He also talks about Toriyama doing the designs, and later on there's a whole thing about why it came to an end. It's not all common knowledge.

Common "Knowledge" would tell you Toei came up with the whole idea on their own, and had Toriyama draw a couple of things for them, then they did everything on their own, but Japan hated it so much, it bombed and failed after 64 episodes.
If anyone tried to tell this to me, I would have to quote Luke Skywalker at them: "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong."

I am sorry mate but neither of this is involvement in the writing and the story, he came up with the name and draw couple of designs and maybe said a few 2 cents at the beginning and that's it lol
Also approving =/= writing btw lol
So what if it was Toriyama's decision to set the series after Z, how is this a big deal at all, it doesn't impact in any way in the content or quality of the show lol

Wait up if I let you go you will soon tell me Toei had minimal involvement and Toriyama did 90% of GT lol

A mean point at any rate, even if Toriyama did write GT (which he didn't lol) it wouldn't make me appreciate it any better, I would just be very sad why do you want me to be sad lol

GT is complete garbage from start to end and folks trying to give more credit to Toriyama to what he actually did are frustrated and dishonest following the show's failure IMO don't take it the wrong way cheers lol

A couple of users (one now gone, another who still occasionally posts) decided to erase all of their content, replacing it with "." a few years back. Another user, now banned, made a thread throwing a tantrum because he could no longer read some posts in some ancient threads. The admins overreacted, and made it to where now edits have a two hour or so time limit, aside from the OP.

I said it was dumb then, and I still think it's dumb, but it's not my call. Normally I agree with the admins here, but whatever.

I see, thanks for the explanation... Your avatar is awesome btw lol