Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Scsigs]

Kai's pacing and editing during the Saiyan saga was so awful. It was like their sole focus was cramming as much footage into one episode as possible. Stuff like Goku's Kaio-Ken comeback against Vegeta is just absolutely butchered and missing all the weight it originally had.

I need to rewatch it, but I never really thought it was poorly paced. Some bad editing choices early on to just have the manga-only scenes & speed up the pacing to match the manga's more, but they quickly found their groove with it after that. Maybe it's because I haven't sat down to watch the first 3 arcs of Z in their totality, but I thought the pacing of the Saiyan arc in Kai was really good for what it needed to be.

[The Dark Knight]

I wish the Crane Hermit was the one to release King Piccolo instead of Pilaf, as I think it would've made far more sense and tied things even better to what came before in the 22nd Tenkaichi arc.

Kai's pacing and editing during the Saiyan saga was so awful. It was like their sole focus was cramming as much footage into one episode as possible. Stuff like Goku's Kaio-Ken comeback against Vegeta is just absolutely butchered and missing all the weight it originally had.

I know this is very unpopular (I'll probably get banned for saying this ), but the manga as a whole didn't have good pacing; it was too fast. Maybe I'm too accustomed to the anime's pacing, but the manga just moved too quickly for my liking, resulting in nothing being given the chance to breath. One of my many issues with Kai, specifically the Saiyan arc, was its pacing being too close to the manga.

[JulieYBM]

Kai was poorly edited. If Kai had been written and animated from scratch then ten episodes would have been a far better fit for the Saiyan arc.

[The Dark Knight]

If Kai had been written and animated from scratch then ten episodes would have been a far better fit for the Saiyan arc.

The Saiyan arc is 51 chapters in the manga, so that would be 5 chapters per episode; it would be way too fast. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to rush through everything, as it seems like anything that takes its time to flesh out its world and characters is automatically viewed negatively. Was Z's 38 episodes too many ? sure, but I'd rather something be too thorough than rushed.

[Scsigs]

Kai was poorly edited. If Kai had been written and animated from scratch then ten episodes would have been a far better fit for the Saiyan arc.

I mean, Kai's version was 17 episodes, which cut the arc in half from what it was in Z. While most of the first episode was still made up of filler material & the end of the Bardock special, that's still pretty short & I don't think that less episodes would've been a good idea. I think an even 20 episodes would've been a bit better with slightly slower pacing to spend more time with the characters & minimal filler, only embellishing upon what was there & maybe doing a few things to show how Gohan went from the shy 5-year-old to a more confident 6-year-old, which Toriyama skipped over & Toei did a lot of filler for that. I think 1 episode showing the start to that development to connect the points better would've been good.

[Scsigs]

If Kai had been written and animated from scratch then ten episodes would have been a far better fit for the Saiyan arc.

The Saiyan arc is 51 chapters in the manga, so that would be 5 chapters per episode; it would be way too fast. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to rush through everything, as it seems like anything that takes its time to flesh out its world and characters is automatically viewed negatively. Was Z's 38 episodes too many ? sure, but I'd rather something be too thorough than rushed.

I tried watching some of the early episodes of Z. The shit's WAY too slow paced & repetitive when it comes to the fights. They did it that way on purpose to pad them out to fill up time for the manga to get further ahead, but it leads to the inverse problem of faster pacing, that being slower pacing to the point of being fucking boring & wasting your time.

[JulieYBM]

If Kai had been written and animated from scratch then ten episodes would have been a far better fit for the Saiyan arc.

The Saiyan arc is 51 chapters in the manga, so that would be 5 chapters per episode; it would be way too fast. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to rush through everything, as it seems like anything that takes its time to flesh out its world and characters is automatically viewed negatively. Was Z's 38 episodes too many ? sure, but I'd rather something be too thorough than rushed.

Don't think about the story in terms of the comic. Think about the story in terms of the general beats. Like, I could have suggested a two hour film—roughly six episodes—but ten episodes is a lot of realty to work with, especially if you know what you want to focus on and the character arcs being told.

Not every panel needs to be adapted as-is, especially with the hindsight of the Saiyan arc being thirty-six years old. Like, random example: I'd begin the first episode of the Saiyan arc with a low angle shot of Piccolo looking down into the crater that Raditz's attack ball is in, followed up a shot of the door open and the ship empty. In two shots you've already managed to effectively set up the story as being both a Piccolo focus story and established that there's a mysterious new threat, while also not immediately telling the audience who this new threat is. From there, transition to the Opening credits, then open back up on a low angle shot of Blooma, Kuririn and the Muten Roushi looking down at Gohan. Intercut Gokuu talking to his friends with shots of them looking perplexed at Gohan until the scene establishes details about what has happened since they last saw one another five years ago. You can then end the scene and hard cut to the title card after Gokuu reveals that the kid his friends are so perplexed about being with him is HIS kid. It maintains the flow of information while building up to the gag reveal all in two minutes. After the title card, the rest of the A-Part can cover Raditz arriving on the scene and running off with Gohan. When we come back from the commercial, we see cut back to that first scene before the Opening and see the rest, where Piccolo learned first hand how tough Raditz was and was even forced to swallow his pride and flee from the scene. Blah, blah, blah.

Ten episodes is a three hour story, it's plenty to tell the Saiyan arc. A skilled series director doesn't need even seventeen episodes for this lol

[super michael]

In the remake of Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai (2020), they shorten some part and cut some parts which makes the anime more faster pace.

The fight between Baran and Dai in the remake finish on episode 32, while in the original it finish on episode 46.


I don't mind how many episodes a anime has, what matters to me is if it is good or bad. If the anime is good I can enjoy regardless if it is over 100 episode or 12 episode an example.

[MasenkoHA]

I wish the Crane Hermit was the one to release King Piccolo instead of Pilaf, as I think it would've made far more sense and tied things even better to what came before in the 22nd Tenkaichi arc.

It wouldn’t have though. Crane Hermit fought against Piccolo Daimao’s original reign of terror and would have had well aware Daimao would double cross him as he did Pilaf. Even in the actual story Roshi shot down the suggestion that Crane would release Piccolo.

Crane Hermit is vindictive , he isn’t supposed to be stupid.

[Scsigs]

If Kai had been written and animated from scratch then ten episodes would have been a far better fit for the Saiyan arc.

The Saiyan arc is 51 chapters in the manga, so that would be 5 chapters per episode; it would be way too fast. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to rush through everything, as it seems like anything that takes its time to flesh out its world and characters is automatically viewed negatively. Was Z's 38 episodes too many ? sure, but I'd rather something be too thorough than rushed.

Don't think about the story in terms of the comic. Think about the story in terms of the general beats. Like, I could have suggested a two hour film—roughly six episodes—but ten episodes is a lot of realty to work with, especially if you know what you want to focus on and the character arcs being told.

Not every panel needs to be adapted as-is, especially with the hindsight of the Saiyan arc being thirty-six years old. Like, random example: I'd begin the first episode of the Saiyan arc with a low angle shot of Piccolo looking down into the crater that Raditz's attack ball is in, followed up a shot of the door open and the ship empty. In two shots you've already managed to effectively set up the story as being both a Piccolo focus story and established that there's a mysterious new threat, while also not immediately telling the audience who this new threat is. From there, transition to the Opening credits, then open back up on a low angle shot of Blooma, Kuririn and the Muten Roushi looking down at Gohan. Intercut Gokuu talking to his friends with shots of them looking perplexed at Gohan until the scene establishes details about what has happened since they last saw one another five years ago. You can then end the scene and hard cut to the title card after Gokuu reveals that the kid his friends are so perplexed about being with him is HIS kid. It maintains the flow of information while building up to the gag reveal all in two minutes. After the title card, the rest of the A-Part can cover Raditz arriving on the scene and running off with Gohan. When we come back from the commercial, we see cut back to that first scene before the Opening and see the rest, where Piccolo learned first hand how tough Raditz was and was even forced to swallow his pride and flee from the scene. Blah, blah, blah.

Ten episodes is a three hour story, it's plenty to tell the Saiyan arc. A skilled series director doesn't need even seventeen episodes for this lol

I mean, every panel was drawn & every piece of dialogue was written by Toriyama with the intent to tell the stories he was telling. Condensing the amount of content he wrote into a smaller runtime wouldn't be great. And, like I've said before, I'd say there's room for a few more episodes to flesh out some things like Gohan growing into a survivor before training with Piccolo & the like to make the story feel more complete since Toriyama specifically skipped over those parts to get to the next main story beat faster. It'd be like the One Piece TV specials or movies that re-adapt arcs into a shorter runtime. You cut out too much & the story moves too fast & you have to eliminated story beats that make the story make more sense. I'd say Toriyama's version of the story in the manga is already cut down enough, kinda to its detriment in a few places.

[The Dark Knight]

I mean, every panel was drawn & every piece of dialogue was written by Toriyama with the intent to tell the stories he was telling. Condensing the amount of content he wrote into a smaller runtime wouldn't be great. And, like I've said before, I'd say there's room for a few more episodes to flesh out some things like Gohan growing into a survivor before training with Piccolo & the like to make the story feel more complete since Toriyama specifically skipped over those parts to get to the next main story beat faster. It'd be like the One Piece TV specials or movies that re-adapt arcs into a shorter runtime. You cut out too much & the story moves too fast & you have to eliminated story beats that make the story make more sense.

People now, thanks mainly to social media, have the attention span of a goldfish. If something doesn't hit the ground running from page 1, or slows things down a bit to develop something, they instantly drop it and move on. Jump has cancelled so many up and coming series within the last 5 years due to readers being impatient and blasting said series in the polls due to them not being as fast paced as they would've liked. Had Dragon Ball been published today as it was back in the 80s, it would've been cancelled within a year, if not less. I think in order for the Dragon Ball we have today to have survived in this climate, it would've had to find a way to start with the 22nd Tenkaichi, as there's no way people would've sat through the first three arcs. As for the longer arcs, mainly Freeza, Cell, and Buu, people would've lost interest half way through, if not sooner, so those would have to be significantly cut down.

I'd say Toriyama's version of the story in the manga is already cut down enough, kinda to its detriment in a few places.

I actually would've liked the manga to be a bit longer in order to flesh things out like the anime did. I think an additional 25-30 chapters spread across the various arcs would've gone a long way in providing the perfectly balanced story, one that isn't as short as the one we have, nor as long as its anime adaption.

[JulieYBM]

The Saiyan arc is 51 chapters in the manga, so that would be 5 chapters per episode; it would be way too fast. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to rush through everything, as it seems like anything that takes its time to flesh out its world and characters is automatically viewed negatively. Was Z's 38 episodes too many ? sure, but I'd rather something be too thorough than rushed.

Don't think about the story in terms of the comic. Think about the story in terms of the general beats. Like, I could have suggested a two hour film—roughly six episodes—but ten episodes is a lot of realty to work with, especially if you know what you want to focus on and the character arcs being told.

Not every panel needs to be adapted as-is, especially with the hindsight of the Saiyan arc being thirty-six years old. Like, random example: I'd begin the first episode of the Saiyan arc with a low angle shot of Piccolo looking down into the crater that Raditz's attack ball is in, followed up a shot of the door open and the ship empty. In two shots you've already managed to effectively set up the story as being both a Piccolo focus story and established that there's a mysterious new threat, while also not immediately telling the audience who this new threat is. From there, transition to the Opening credits, then open back up on a low angle shot of Blooma, Kuririn and the Muten Roushi looking down at Gohan. Intercut Gokuu talking to his friends with shots of them looking perplexed at Gohan until the scene establishes details about what has happened since they last saw one another five years ago. You can then end the scene and hard cut to the title card after Gokuu reveals that the kid his friends are so perplexed about being with him is HIS kid. It maintains the flow of information while building up to the gag reveal all in two minutes. After the title card, the rest of the A-Part can cover Raditz arriving on the scene and running off with Gohan. When we come back from the commercial, we see cut back to that first scene before the Opening and see the rest, where Piccolo learned first hand how tough Raditz was and was even forced to swallow his pride and flee from the scene. Blah, blah, blah.

Ten episodes is a three hour story, it's plenty to tell the Saiyan arc. A skilled series director doesn't need even seventeen episodes for this lol

I mean, every panel was drawn & every piece of dialogue was written by Toriyama with the intent to tell the stories he was telling. Condensing the amount of content he wrote into a smaller runtime wouldn't be great. And, like I've said before, I'd say there's room for a few more episodes to flesh out some things like Gohan growing into a survivor before training with Piccolo & the like to make the story feel more complete since Toriyama specifically skipped over those parts to get to the next main story beat faster. It'd be like the One Piece TV specials or movies that re-adapt arcs into a shorter runtime. You cut out too much & the story moves too fast & you have to eliminated story beats that make the story make more sense. I'd say Toriyama's version of the story in the manga is already cut down enough, kinda to its detriment in a few places.

The Dragon Ball comic that Toriyama wrote isn't going anywhere. You can still get the 'pure' experience by cracking it open and reading it. Adapting a work into a different medium through the lens of different artists is what we’re talking about, and that inherently comes with a different tempo and feeling. There's an infinite number of ways to go about adapting one thing into a different medium and the [unfinished] example that I gave was just one example of creating a good adaption of the comic without making a ton of changes that told the general beats of the arc in a digestable format tailored to giving the most time to the most important moments and hammering home the impact for the focus characters.

The One Piece specials that retell arcs aren't bad because they cut stuff out and change details, they're bad because they're poorly planned out and made in a rush while trying to squeeze in as much of the original elements as possible rather than fully committed to telling a focused story. In my prior example, I specifically did not include the farmer because I wanted to focus on the pre-established Piccolo's reaction to Raditz and have that be the audience's introduction to the character, rather than a throwaway character who will never be seen again. It's tighter while also cutting down on repetition by doing two scenes of establishing Raditz being abnormal. It goes without saying at that point in the story that the farmer's rifle isn't going to do shit to Raditz anyway, it doesn't add anything to the series to see it on screen.

I mean, every panel was drawn & every piece of dialogue was written by Toriyama with the intent to tell the stories he was telling. Condensing the amount of content he wrote into a smaller runtime wouldn't be great. And, like I've said before, I'd say there's room for a few more episodes to flesh out some things like Gohan growing into a survivor before training with Piccolo & the like to make the story feel more complete since Toriyama specifically skipped over those parts to get to the next main story beat faster. It'd be like the One Piece TV specials or movies that re-adapt arcs into a shorter runtime. You cut out too much & the story moves too fast & you have to eliminated story beats that make the story make more sense.

People now, thanks mainly to social media, have the attention span of a goldfish. If something doesn't hit the ground running from page 1, or slows things down a bit to develop something, they instantly drop it and move on. Jump has cancelled so many up and coming series within the last 5 years due to readers being impatient and blasting said series in the polls due to them not being as fast paced as they would've liked. Had Dragon Ball been published today as it was back in the 80s, it would've been cancelled within a year, if not less. I think in order for the Dragon Ball we have today to have survived in this climate, it would've had to find a way to start with the 22nd Tenkaichi, as there's no way people would've sat through the first three arcs. As for the longer arcs, mainly Freeza, Cell, and Buu, people would've lost interest half way through, if not sooner, so those would have to be significantly cut down.

I'd say Toriyama's version of the story in the manga is already cut down enough, kinda to its detriment in a few places.

I actually would've liked the manga to be a bit longer in order to flesh things out like the anime did. I think an additional 25-30 chapters spread across the various arcs would've gone a long way in providing the perfectly balanced story, one that isn't as short as the one we have, nor as long as its anime adaption.

JUMP has always ended series if they aren't popular before they have enough time to find their legs. This is not a new social media age issue.

[Scsigs]

People now, thanks mainly to social media, have the attention span of a goldfish. If something doesn't hit the ground running from page 1, or slows things down a bit to develop something, they instantly drop it and move on. Jump has cancelled so many up and coming series within the last 5 years due to readers being impatient and blasting said series in the polls due to them not being as fast paced as they would've liked. Had Dragon Ball been published today as it was back in the 80s, it would've been cancelled within a year, if not less. I think in order for the Dragon Ball we have today to have survived in this climate, it would've had to find a way to start with the 22nd Tenkaichi, as there's no way people would've sat through the first three arcs. As for the longer arcs, mainly Freeza, Cell, and Buu, people would've lost interest half way through, if not sooner, so those would have to be significantly cut down.

...

I actually would've liked the manga to be a bit longer in order to flesh things out like the anime did. I think an additional 25-30 chapters spread across the various arcs would've gone a long way in providing the perfectly balanced story, one that isn't as short as the one we have, nor as long as its anime adaption.

IMO, if you pace things well & put stuff in that's either entertaining or good for the stories being told, people will pay attention. Like, Kamen Rider Zeztz, I've seen people say is too slow when, in actuality, the format of 2-part stories kinda makes the stories a little slower-paced because the writers have to pace out the story beats to fill out double the runtime of 1 22-minute episode. It's much more rewarding to watch those 2-parters back to back as a result, which is what I do every 2 weeks. I doubt it's because of just the pacing that certain things don't click with people. Writing quality also matters. It should also be said that you can read at whatever pace you want, so that's also a factor.

I mean, Kai already cut down on the filler that was in Z to specifically do that & I think it did very well. I doubt that Toriyama would've had to immediately jump to the 22nd World Tournament to keep readers' attention. Admittedly, the early DB arcs are where his writing was at its slowest in pace for DB, mainly because he had to introduce most of the characters, the world, & a plot for the arc to follow, then after a few arcs he could hit the ground running because he didn't have to worry about that. And he got there after, what? 2 years? I think the DB manga could survive fine in today's market.

[BernardoCairo]

I was playing FighterZ the other day and I started to think... Super Saiyajin Blue doesn't look bad. It doesn't look bad at all! In fact, the blue color goes very well with both Goku and Vegeta.
I think the anime did a disservice to the form. The tone of blue they used isn't nearly as sleek as the ones they used later in Broly and FighterZ. I would argue it looked way better in Fukkatso No F too.
It is the weakest of the three major forms of the new era in terms of design, but I think it still looks nice.

[ZeroNeonix]

I was playing FighterZ the other day and I started to think... Super Saiyajin Blue doesn't look bad. It doesn't look bad at all! In fact, the blue color goes very well with both Goku and Vegeta.
I think the anime did a disservice to the form. The tone of blue they used isn't nearly as sleek as the ones they used later in Broly and FighterZ. I would argue it looked way better in Fukkatso No F too.
It is the weakest of the three major forms of the new era in terms of design, but I think it still looks nice.

Yeah. Super Broly's version of Blue uses a better shade and has a more appealing aura. I think Goku and Vegeta's outfits in Resurrection F (especially Vegetas) compliment the Blue form better too.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Yeah. Super Broly's version of Blue uses a better shade and has a more appealing aura. I think Goku and Vegeta's outfits in Resurrection F (especially Vegetas) compliment the Blue form better too.

His outfit in Broly is A LOT better. The darker blue fits a lot more, imo the grey in his RoF outfit sucks hard, it's so bland and boring looking, and it contrasts horribly with his skin color, makes him look really dull.

[SSGpotota]

Why they never brought the dragon balls to Future Trunks' timeline to fix many of that timeline's issues?

[Xeogran]

Why they never brought the dragon balls to Future Trunks' timeline to fix many of that timeline's issues?

Would they still work with Kami not being alive in that timeline?

[PhantomSaiyan]

Why they never brought the dragon balls to Future Trunks' timeline to fix many of that timeline's issues?

Would they still work with Kami not being alive in that timeline?

I think they would, because Dende would be bringing his own set of Dragon Balls, tied to him

[Koitsukai]

The thing is there isn't much Dende or the DBs could do, aside from rebuilding cities, since it's been too long to revive the Z-senshi. There is a time limit for resurrections, IIRC.
I guess they could revive those who died recently, that wouldn't be a bad thing. I think the easiest thing would be to

For the Black arc, it's too risky to bring Dende. There's an active threat they cannot really deal with.