Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

6 vs. 10 is a 1.66x gap, which be DB standards is more than enough for your opponent is too fast for you to even see. So a 10 beating two 6s isn't unrealistic at all.

[Saiga]

I've never really understood the DB concept that a strong being can beat weaker foes no matter how many they are. If Beerus is 10 and Goku and Vegeta are 6 and 6, then the two combined should beat Beerus. In real life two weaker men can beat a stronger one.

In real life, there are also men strong enough to take on multiple opponents. And Dragon Ball goes higher with its strength levels, since it's not constrained to real world logic.

[Low Tone G]

I've never really understood the DB concept that a strong being can beat weaker foes no matter how many they are. If Beerus is 10 and Goku and Vegeta are 6 and 6, then the two combined should beat Beerus. In real life two weaker men can beat a stronger one.

In real life, there are also men strong enough to take on multiple opponents. And Dragon Ball goes higher with its strength levels, since it's not constrained to real world logic.

That's right , but remaining with Goku+Vegeta to fight Beerus on par.... according to numbers 6+6 is 12 and if Beerus is 10 then they should take him out easily. Only if Vegeta were 4 instead of 6 that would mean they are only on par with Beerus. According to Whis, Vegeta is only one step behind Goku, so at very least Vegeta is 5 compared to Goku's 6. And we don't really know how much has Goku progressed, but he's still behind Beerus, but we don't how much...

[Polyphase Avatron]

I've never really understood the DB concept that a strong being can beat weaker foes no matter how many they are. If Beerus is 10 and Goku and Vegeta are 6 and 6, then the two combined should beat Beerus. In real life two weaker men can beat a stronger one.

In real life, there are also men strong enough to take on multiple opponents. And Dragon Ball goes higher with its strength levels, since it's not constrained to real world logic.

That's right , but remaining with Goku+Vegeta to fight Beerus on par.... according to numbers 6+6 is 12 and if Beerus is 10 then they should take him out easily. Only if Vegeta were 4 instead of 6 that would mean they are only on par with Beerus. According to Whis, Vegeta is only one step behind Goku, so at very least Vegeta is 5 compared to Goku's 6. And we don't really know how much has Goku progressed, but he's still behind Beerus, but we don't how much...

If it were a simple matter of adding the power levels of allies together, 4 Saibamen could beat Nappa and 28 farmers could beat Master Roshi.

[johnboy1]

Yeah, the way battle power accrues over multiple opponents is clearly not linear. The probability of any number of fighters beating a single opponent decreases vastly as the gap between their (strongest) battle power and the opponent's grows.

Really, it would appear that a higher battle power renders you damn near impervious to weaker opponents so long as your guard is up and the difference is anything more than negligible.

[RandomGuy96]

The difference in strength in reality between two average guys and a really strong guy is nothing compared to the difference in DB between a guy with a power level of 1,000 and another with a power level of 1,500. In real life, you can't move so fast that you appear as a blur, let your opponent punch you repeatedly in the face to no effect, or send someone flying by flicking them. Even if you're Thor Bjornsson and your enemy is an average sized middle aged office worker.

[Son Edo]

How strong is Gohan-Boo when he's angry?

[sonikku956]

Personally, I'd like to think that from the Saiyan Saga up until the Cell Saga, I think that Yamcha and Ten were pretty close, if not rivals (as they would be shown training together a lot), with Ten being the superior. Starting with the Buu Saga, thanks to Yamcha being almost all-but retired, the gap became much bigger.

[KentalSSJ6]

While I have made it a habit no to dabble in power levels all that much, I figured I may as well screw around with it at least a little and post a few PL's I have for a handful of characters.

Base Goku (Buu/BOG) - 100 million

SSJ1 - 5 billion

SSJ2 - 10 billion

SSJ3 - 40 Billion

Gohan (Mystic/Ultimate/Chou/whatever) - 400 Billion

Super Vegetto - 160 trillion.

Beerus - 320 trillion

Whis - 400 trillion

Base GT Goku - 40 billion

SSJ1 - 2 trillion

SSJ2 - 4 trillion

SSJ3 - 16 trillion

SSJ4 - 160 trillion

[dbgtFO]

With the revelation, that Freeza thinks a 4 month work-out will increase his battle power to 1.3 million, implying that Toriyama thinks of post-Freeza power levels with a very minimalistic mindset, I have no choice, but to adjust my levels accordingly, to give a more accurate representation of what they really should be!
Freeza Arc

Spoiler:

The Legendary Super Saiyan.

Krillin: 13,000.

Piccolo(Merged with Nail): 1,000,300.
-Without heavy clothing: 1,000,500.

Son Gohan: 200,000.
-Full Power: 700,000.
--Recovery boost: 900,000.
---Blast: 1,000,800.

Vegeta: 250,000.
-Full Power: 450,000.
--Recovery boost: 1,001,000.

Freeza: 530,000.
-Second Form: 1,000,000.
--Powered up: 1,000,200.
--Full Power: 1,000,400.
-Third Form: 1,000,800.
-Final Form: 1,001,200.
--50%: 1,002,500.
--100%: 1,005,000.

Son Goku: 1,001,100.
-Kaio-ken x10: 1,002,100.
--Kaio-ken x20: 1,003,100.
-Super Saiyan: 1,005,500.

Android Arc

Spoiler:

Mecha Freeza(70%): 1,005,700.
King Cold: 1,003,000.

Trunks: 5.
-Full Power: 1,001,200.
--Super Saiyan: 1,006,000.

Son Goku: 1,001,300.
-Super Saiyan: 1,006,500.

The Android Confrontation.

Yamcha: 10,000.
Tenshinhan: 15,000.
Krillin: 25,000.

Son Gohan: 1,001,000.

Android #20/Dr. Gero: 1,001,100.
Android #19: 1,001,050.
--Goku absorbed: 1,001,750.

Piccolo: 1,001,250.

Super Saiyan Trunks: 1,006,000.
Super Saiyan Son Goku: 1,007,000.
-Affected by the Heart virus: 1,000,700.
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 1,007,000.

Android #18: 1,007,000.
Android #17: 1,008,000.

The Cell Arc

Spoiler:

Piccolo(merged with Kami): 1,007,500.
-Without heavy clothing: 1,008,000.

Android #16: 1,010,000.

Vegeta: 1,003,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage I: 1,015,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage II: 1,030,000.

Trunks: 1,003,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage I: 1,015,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage II: 1,030,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage III: 1,030,500.

Cell: 1,000,000.
-Powered up: 1,010,000.
-Second Form: 1,017,000.
--Full Power: 1,020,000.
-Perfect Form: 1,028,000.
--Powered up: 1,030,200.
---Buff form: 1,032,000.

The Cell Games

Mister Satan: 6.66.

Piccolo: 1,020,000.

Trunks: 1,003,200.
-Super Saiyan: 1,030,200.
Vegeta: 1,003,300.
-Super Saiyan: 1,030,300.

Cell Juniors: 1,030,500.

Super Saiyan Son Goku: 1,030,100.
-Full Power: 1,031,000.

Cell: 1,030,200.
-Powered up: 1,031,100.
-Full Power: 1,031,500.
--Power Weighted: 1,032,000.
-Super Powered: 1,035,000.

Super Saiyan Full Power Son Gohan: 1,031,200.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,036,000.

Majin Buu Arc

Spoiler:

The 25th Strongest under the Heavens Tournament

Mr. Satan: 6.66.
Videl: 7.

Krillin: 25,000.

Kibito: 1,003,000.

#18: 1,007,000.
Piccolo: 1,020,000.

Son Gohan: 1,003,500.
-Super Saiyan 1: 1,031,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,035,000.

The Battle against Babidi's Men and Majin Buu

Kaioshin: 1,027,000.

Babidi: 40.
Pui Pui: 4,000.
S2 guy: 400,000.
Yakon: 1,004,000.
Dabra: 1,035,000.

Son Gohan: 1,003,510.
-Super Saiyan: 1,035,100.

Vegeta: 1,004,100.
-Majin Super Saiyan 1: 1,031,250.
-Majin Super Saiyan 2: 1,036,500.

Son Goku: 1,004,200.
-Super Saiyan 1: 1,031,250.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,036,500.
-Super Saiyan 3: 1,038,000.

Son Goten: 1,003,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,030,000.
Trunks: 1,003,100.
-Super Saiyan: 1,031,000.

Gotenks: 1,037,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,038,000.

Majin Buu (Fat): 1,035,200.
-Power-up 1: 1,037,000.
--Power-up 2: 1,037,500.

Mr. Buu: 1,035,200.
Pure Evil Buu: 1,035,800.

The Terrible Super Majin Buu

Kibito: 1,003,000.
Kaioshin: 1,027,000.
-Merged with Kibito: 1,030,000.

Son Goten: 1,003,850.
Trunks: 1,003,850.

Gotenks: 1,038,500.
-Super Saiyan 1: 1,039,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,040,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 1,041,000.

Son Gohan(Ultimate Power): 1,042,000.

Super Majin Buu: 1,040,500.
-With Super Gotenks: 1,043,000.
-With Super Son Gohan: 1,044,000.

Gogeta(hypothetical): 1,040,000.
-Super Saiyan 1: 1,041,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,042,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 1,044,000.

Vegetto: 1,044,100.
-Super Saiyan 1: 1,045,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,050,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 1,100,000.

Pure Majin Buu(South Kaioshin absorbed): 1,041,000.

A Match with the Whole Universe at Stake

Mr. Satan: 6.66.
Vegeta: 1,004,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,036,000.
Mr. Buu: 1,035,200.

Pure Majin Buu : 1,037,999.

Super Saiyan Son Goku: 1,031,250.
-Super Saiyan 3: 1,038,000.
-Final Genkidama: 1,040,000.

Yo! Son Goku and friends return!!

Spoiler:

Tarble: 1,800.

Yamcha: 10,000.
Tenshinhan: 20,000.
Krillin: 25,000.
#18: 1,007,000.
Piccolo: 1,020,000.

Avo: 500,000.
Kado: 500,000.

Aka: 1,005,500.

Son Goten: 1,003,800.
Trunks: 1,003,800.

Gotenks: 1,038,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,039,000.

Vegeta: 1,004,499.
Son Goku: 1,004,500.
-Super Saiyan: 1,032,000.

Battle of Gods

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan Gotenks: 1,039,000.
Son Gohan: 1,040,000.

Son Goku: 1,004,999.
-Super Saiyan 1: 1,033,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,037,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 1,041,000.

Vegeta: 1,004,998.
-Super Saiyan: 1,033,000.
--SS2/Rage-mode: 1,041,001.

Vegetto(hypothetical): 1,045,000.
-Super Saiyan 1: 1,046,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,052,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 1,104,000.

Super Saiyan God Goku: 1,200,000.
God of Destruction Beerus: 2,000,000.
Attendant to God of D. Whis: 3,000,000.

Ressurection [F]

Spoiler:

Tagoma: 25,000.
Sorbet: 2,500.

Tenshinhan: 20,000.
Krillin: 25,000.
Piccolo: 1,020,000.
Son Gohan: 1,004,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,040,000.

Freeza Soldiers: 100-1,500.
Shisami: 1,030,000.

Vegeta: 1,119,999.
-SSGSS: 1,294,999.
Son Goku: 1,120,000.
-SSGSS: 1,295,000.

Freeza: 1,100,000.
-Golden Form: 1,300,000.

Beerus: 2,000,000.
Whis: 3,000,000.

[manwolf]

My power levels:

Freezer Saga:

Spoiler:

Goku SSJ: 150 millions
Freezer: 120 millions
Gennkidama: 90 millions
Goku: 3 millions
Vegeta: 2.5 millions
Gohan (angry): 1.5 millions.
Piccolo: 1.4 millions
Krillin: 0.24 millions
Tien: 0.18 millions
Yamcha: 0.05 millions
Chaos: 0.001 millions

Mecha Freezer Saga:

Spoiler:

Goku SSJ: 200 millions
Trunks SSJ: 175 millions
Mecha Freezer: 120 millions:
Cold: 90 millions
Goku: 4 millions
Trunks: 3.5 millions
Vegeta: 3.1 millions
Piccolo: 2.5 millions
Gohan: 1.3 millions
Tien: 0.8 millions
Krillin: 0.5 millions
Yamcha: 0.1 million
Chaos: 0.05 millions

Android Saga:

Spoiler:

Android 16: 800 millions
Android 17 650 millions
Android 18: 600 millions
Vegeta SSJ: 400 millions
Goku SSJ (healthy): 350 millions
Trunks SSJ: 300 millions
Android 19 (kamehameha absorbed): 200 millions
Goku SSJ(heart attack): 170 millions
Android 19: 100 millions
Piccolo: 100 millions
Android 20: 80-90 millions
Gohan: 70-80 millions
Krillin 60 millions
Tien: 50 millions
Yamcha: 25 millions
Chaos: 1 million

Cell Saga:

Spoiler:

Ultra Goku: 2.5 billions
Ultra Trunks: 2 billions
Perfect Cell 1.9 billions
Super Vegeta: 1.5 billions
Super Trunks: 1.4 millions
Semi-Perfect Cell: 1 billion
Vegeta SSJ: 900 millions
Trunks SSJ: 850 millions
Gohan SSJ: 800 millions
Android 16: 800 millions
Cell (human absorbed): 750 millions
Piccolo: 650 millions
Android 17 650 millions
Android 18: 600 millions
Cell: 600 millions
Tien (hax): 200 millions
Krillin: 70 millions
Tien: 50 millions

Cell Tournament:

Spoiler:

Gohan SSJ2: 6.4 billions
Super Perfect Cell: 6 billions
Perfect Cell (max): 5 billions
Perfect Cell: 3.5 billions
Gohan SSJ: 3.2 billions
Cell jr: 3 billions
Goku SSJ: 3 billions
Goku SSJ (tired): 2.7 billions
Vegeta SSJ: 2.5 billions
Trunks SSJ: 2.2 billions
Piccolo: 1.2 billions
Krillin: 100 millions
Tien: 80 millions
Yamcha: 50 millions

Babidi Saga:

Spoiler:

Magin Buu: 7.5 billions
Magin Vegeta; 7 billions
Goku SSJ2: 7 billions
Vegeta SSJ2: 6.8 billions
Gohan SSJ2: 6.2 billions
Dabura: 4 billions
Goku SSJ: 3.5 billions
Vegeta SSJ: 3.4 billions
Gohan SSJ: 3.1 billions
Kaio: 2.7 billions
Piccolo: 2.5 billions
Trunks SSJ: 2.4 billions
Goten SSJ: 2.2 billions
Yakon: 1 billion
Kibito: 800 millions
Android 18: 600 millions
Krillin: 300 millions
Pui Pui 100 millions

Magin Buu Saga:

Spoiler:

Buu angry limit: 36 billions
Evil buu: 28 billions
Goku SSJ3 (not serious): 14 billions
Buu more angry: 12 billions
Final Explosion:9 billions
Buu angry: 8 billions
Magin Vegeta: 7 billions
Gohan (post z-sword): 6.4 billions
Goku SSJ2: 7 billions
Goku SSJ: 3.5 billions
Trunks SSJ: 2.4 billions
Goten SSJ: 2.2 billions
Gotenks: 160 millions

Fusion Saga:

Spoiler:

Super Vegeto: 100 billions
Super Buu (Gohan absorved): 81 billions
Super Buu (Gotenks and Piccolo absorved): 68 billions
Super Buu (Piccolo, Goten and Trunks absorved): 41 billions
Mystic Gohan: 40 billions
Gotenks SSJ3: 38 billions
Super Buu: 36 billions
Goku SSJ3: 28 billions
Gotenks SSJ2: 16-18 billions
Gotenks SSJ:8-9 billions
Vegeta ssj2: 7 billions
KibitoKai: 3.5 billions
Trunks SSJ: 2.5 billions
Goten SSJ: 2.5 billions
Piccolo: 2.5 billions

Kid Buu Saga:

Spoiler:

Goku ssj3: 28 billions
Genkidama: 27 billions
Kid Buu: 26 billions
Good Buu: 10 billions
Vegeta ssj2: 7 billions

[Doctor.]

With the revelation, that Freeza thinks a 4 month work-out will increase his battle power to 1.3 million, implying that Toriyama thinks of post-Freeza power levels with a very minimalistic mindset, I have no choice, but to adjust my levels accordingly, to give a more accurate representation of what they really should be!

Did we even get confirmation that that line made it into the movie? I know it's in the Volume 'F' script, but plenty of stuff there didn't make it to the movie or were canged.

[dbgtFO]

With the revelation, that Freeza thinks a 4 month work-out will increase his battle power to 1.3 million, implying that Toriyama thinks of post-Freeza power levels with a very minimalistic mindset, I have no choice, but to adjust my levels accordingly, to give a more accurate representation of what they really should be!

Did we even get confirmation that that line made it into the movie? I know it's in the Volume 'F' script, but plenty of stuff there didn't make it to the movie or were canged.

The line is in the movie. It's when Freeza starts powering up in his first form on his Space ship, before the scene changes to Jaco travelling through Space.

[ZombieVito]

As far as I know the line is only in the script included in that book that was given at the Japanese premier.

[Noah]

The line is in the movie. It's when Freeza starts powering up in his first form on his Space ship, before the scene changes to Jaco travelling through Space.

Isn't that a error? 1.3 million PL wouldn't even scratch Goku.


Talking about RoF and Power Levels, I would like to have some basis to define the power levels in the movie:

1st Form Freeza after training > Above Super Saiyan 2 PL

Shisami = Semi Perfect Cell PL

Piccolo = Shisami

SSJ Gohan = Same FPSSJ Goku PL in Cell Games

Average Soldiers = 100 to 1000 PL

Final Form Freeza = Super Saiyan 3 PL

Goku (base after absorbing God powers) > Above Super Saiyan 3 PL

SSJGSSJ Goku/Vegeta > Slightly stronger than a Super Saiyan GOD

Golden Freeza = SSJGSSJ PL, but the energy decreases by usage

Beerus = A little above SSJGSSJ PL

Whis = Way beyond SSJGSSJ PL


Is that right?

[ZombieVito]

I really wish the notion of Piccolo being just Semi Perfect Cell tier would go away.

Base Goku, Vegeta and Final Form Freeza are way above SSJ3.
Golden Freeza was stronger than SSGSS Goku and Vegeta.
Based on Piccolo's reaction First Form Freeza should be way above SSJ2 and maybe even SSJ3.
Shisami can be weaker than Piccolo, he was not fresh and still managed to fight pretty evenly with Shisami.
IMO Gohan just lost his Ultimate Form, he is exactly the same as his Post Z Sword self.
Some soldiers where about to kill Krllin before Gohan saved him. I guess this are the troublesome mercenaries that Freeza hired. Maybe they are in the 100,000 range.

[RandomGuy96]

Zarbon >= Giant Red Bull Man > Piccolo

[ZombieVito]

Zarbon >= Giant Red Bull Man > Piccolo

So Raditz can beat Base Gohan now?

Hell even Saiyan Arc Chaoz can.

[RandomGuy96]

Zarbon >= Giant Red Bull Man > Piccolo

So Raditz can beat Base Gohan now?

Hell even Saiyan Arc Chaoz can.

No, because SS Gohan >>>>>> Zarbon. Base Gohan can be around as strong as Saiyan arc Vegeta.

[ZombieVito]

Zarbon >= Giant Red Bull Man > Piccolo

So Raditz can beat Base Gohan now?

Hell even Saiyan Arc Chaoz can.

No, because SS Gohan >>>>>> Zarbon. Base Gohan can be around as strong as Saiyan arc Vegeta.

I Goofed. Still I'm not buying this chain. Sorbet was surprised a Super Saiyan beat Shisami and he knows Freeza was killed by one.

Shisami trained, that's the only explanation that can fit.