Unpopular DB opinions

[Baggie_Saiyan]

- Goku letting of Raditz tail despite kidnapping his son and trying to kill him
- Goku letting Vegeta live
- Goku giving Freeza energy
- Goku not telling Gohan about this strategy to beat Cell
- Goku giving Cell a senzu

I feel like you're doing a disservice to Goku's character by simply labelling these actions "stupid". Yes, they're stupid now that we know what happened, but Goku had a clear reason and motivation for his actions.

He let Raditz go out of kindness.
He let Vegeta live out of selfishness.
He gave Freeza energy out of kindness.
He didn't tell Gohan his strategy because he wanted Gohan's emotions to be spontaneous.
He gave Cell a senzu because he knew that it'd be irrelevant in the long run and it'd just make Cell extra cocky.

Now, some of the stuff Goku does in Super, like him not recognizing Beerus in the Monaka costume, forgetting so much in the Black arc... there's no reason as to why he's that stupid, that's just pure idiocy. Never in Z did he ever fuck up out of pure stupidity.

People forget things all the time. He forgot the senzu's that was it. Miscommunication between him and Vegeta about the jar and Roshi didn't give him the seal, Goku didn't forget that, Roshi didn't even go "Goku you forgot the seal" not once not even when Goku went.

I could argue back with Monaka Goku did recognize it was Beerus but didn't want to call him out and humiliate him on it.

[Anime Kitten]

That was when he couldn't tell that was Beerus wearing a Monaka suit in EP43.

Episode 42. 43 was the best episode of Super and don't you forget it.

[Soppa Saia People]

The Future Trunks arc is the greatest arc Dragon Ball has ever produced.

Care to explain why ? Seriously, one of my biggest pet peeves in this thread is when people just say a blanket statement, and nothing else, no reason, no explanation, nothing. This isn't a attack on you, just something that annoys me in this thread.

[Lord Beerus]

That was when he couldn't tell that was Beerus wearing a Monaka suit in EP43.

Episode 42. 43 was the best episode of Super and don't you forget it.

DERP.

You're right. I mis-counted the episode. Gonna change my comment.

[Lunatic Fringe]

The Future Trunks arc is the greatest arc Dragon Ball has ever produced.

Care to explain why ? Seriously, one of my biggest pet peeves in this thread is when people just say a blanket statement, and nothing else, no reason, no explanation, nothing. This isn't a attack on you, just something that annoys me in this thread.

I hope you realize the irony here since you kinda did the same thing.

[Soppa Saia People]

The Future Trunks arc is the greatest arc Dragon Ball has ever produced.

Care to explain why ? Seriously, one of my biggest pet peeves in this thread is when people just say a blanket statement, and nothing else, no reason, no explanation, nothing. This isn't a attack on you, just something that annoys me in this thread.

I hope you realize the irony here since you kinda did the same thing.

Yeah I do. But the picture was more of joke

[Lord Beerus]

The Future Trunks arc is the greatest arc Dragon Ball has ever produced.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Care to explain why ? Seriously, one of my biggest pet peeves in this thread is when people just say a blanket statement, and nothing else, no reason, no explanation, nothing. This isn't a attack on you, just something that annoys me in this thread.

I just found the arc immensely entertaining. Zamasu was a wonderfully written villain and the best the franchise has produced. The supporting was well utilised, which is a feat in itself given the circumstances of how strong Zamasu and Goku Black were. Nozawa delivered the performance of a lifetime as Goku Black. The final battle was also spectacular and gripping, with Future Trunks getting his revenge and killing Zamasu.

[Soppa Saia People]

The Future Trunks arc is the greatest arc Dragon Ball has ever produced.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Care to explain why ? Seriously, one of my biggest pet peeves in this thread is when people just say a blanket statement, and nothing else, no reason, no explanation, nothing. This isn't a attack on you, just something that annoys me in this thread.

I just found the arc immensely entertaining. Zamasu was a wonderfully written villain and the best the franchise has produced. The supporting was well utilised, which is a feat in itself given the circumstances of how strong Zamasu and Goku Black were. Nozawa delivered the performance of a lifetime as Goku Black. The final battle was also spectacular and gripping, with Future Trunks getting his revenge and killing Zamasu.

Even though I dislike Super, Nozawa was killer as Black. I think most can agree on that.

[fadeddreams5]

Zamasu (not Black) is an overrated villain.

We never truly see this character evolve much; the minute he's introduced, he already holds contempt towards humans. We never see him accomplish anything, though we know from word of mouth that he has. He can't even kill humans. He was also embarrassed multiple times in the arc (i.e. Hakai, Mafuba, punched in the face while he talks, and sliced while he had a mental breakdown).

Really, the issue isn't the villain himself, but the structure of the story, which emphasized on the mystery of Goku Black, over giving us a linear plot in which we ultimately saw Zamasu become Goku Black with our own two eyes. Also, the setting restricted the story. By setting, I mean the time period it's set in, where we have all these gods of destruction and angels around. Zamasu HAD to remain in the future, and the future isn't where our main cast lives, making Zamasu's threat less meaningful, imo. Ultimately, this character never made any impact either, besides serve to infuse Trunks with hax.

[Dbzfan94]

People forget things all the time. He forgot the senzu's that was it. Miscommunication between him and Vegeta about the jar and Roshi didn't give him the seal, Goku didn't forget that, Roshi didn't even go "Goku you forgot the seal" not once not even when Goku went.
I could argue back with Monaka Goku did recognize it was Beerus but didn't want to call him out and humiliate him on it.

It's kinds surprising to see someone defending DBS Goku this much. Out of every pther battle, Goku never forgot the Senzu. There could've been ten other ways to have them lose the Senzu without hurting Goku's character and making him seem like an idiot.

The biggest possibility would be that since Black has Goku's memories, he could've just blasted the bag with the Senzu and destroyed it that way. Issue solved. but no.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

People forget things all the time. He forgot the senzu's that was it. Miscommunication between him and Vegeta about the jar and Roshi didn't give him the seal, Goku didn't forget that, Roshi didn't even go "Goku you forgot the seal" not once not even when Goku went.
I could argue back with Monaka Goku did recognize it was Beerus but didn't want to call him out and humiliate him on it.

It's kinds surprising to see someone defending DBS Goku this much. Out of every pther battle, Goku never forgot the Senzu. There could've been ten other ways to have them lose the Senzu without hurting Goku's character and making him seem like an idiot.

The biggest possibility would be that since Black has Goku's memories, he could've just blasted the bag with the Senzu and destroyed it that way. Issue solved. but no.

I just went for my daily jog today and today was the first time in years I forgot to take my earphones. It happens.

[PsionicWarrior]

Not really. Even as Goku grew up in DB and later in the Z portion of the story and even in one or two occasions in GT, he did some stupid shit.

Give me a few examples of Goku's child-like ignorance between Raditz and Boo. How about 5? No filler.

- Goku letting of Raditz tail despite kidnapping his son and trying to kill him
- Goku letting Vegeta live
- Goku giving Freeza energy
- Goku not telling Gohan about this strategy to beat Cell
- Goku giving Cell a senzu

I actually love it that Goku did all these things, is just his character, he does stupid things but not because he is stupid, there is a profoundly humane philosophy behind as naive as it gets and that is the main difference some have trouble to grasp with Super's interpretation, where he is just dumb as rock making for a bad parody lol

[Lord Beerus]

People forget things all the time. He forgot the senzu's that was it. Miscommunication between him and Vegeta about the jar and Roshi didn't give him the seal, Goku didn't forget that, Roshi didn't even go "Goku you forgot the seal" not once not even when Goku went.
I could argue back with Monaka Goku did recognize it was Beerus but didn't want to call him out and humiliate him on it.

It's kinds surprising to see someone defending DBS Goku this much. Out of every pther battle, Goku never forgot the Senzu. There could've been ten other ways to have them lose the Senzu without hurting Goku's character and making him seem like an idiot.

The biggest possibility would be that since Black has Goku's memories, he could've just blasted the bag with the Senzu and destroyed it that way. Issue solved. but no.

I just went for my daily jog today and today was the first time in years I forgot to take my earphones. It happens.

Forgetting something = Idiot.

What can you say?

[dbs fanboy]

Zamasu (not Black) is an overrated villain.

We never truly see this character evolve much; the minute he's introduced, he already holds contempt towards humans. We never see him accomplish anything, though we know from word of mouth that he has. He can't even kill humans. He was also embarrassed multiple times in the arc (i.e. Hakai, Mafuba, punched in the face while he talks, and sliced while he had a mental breakdown).

Really, the issue isn't the villain himself, but the structure of the story, which emphasized on the mystery of Goku Black, over giving us a linear plot in which we ultimately saw Zamasu become Goku Black with our own two eyes. Also, the setting restricted the story. By setting, I mean the time period it's set in, where we have all these gods of destruction and angels around. Zamasu HAD to remain in the future, and the future isn't where our main cast lives, making Zamasu's threat less meaningful, imo. Ultimately, this character never made any impact either, besides serve to infuse Trunks with hax.

We pretty much saw him change, at first he was an apprentice with doubts, he had been observing the mortals for a long time and he couldn't see why they had to be protected; after fighting Goku and meeting the Barbarians, he realized that mortals could be even dangerous for the gods, he starts to see them as evil and he's corrupted, and in the last episode, he went insane with all the contradictions that were kept inside himself, and he pretty much became a monster, something worse than what he hates.

[Dbzfan94]

Forgetting something = Idiot.

What can you say?

Going into a battle and forgetting something like that, yeah, that's pretty stupid. Still, Goku overall in DBS has been dumber.

[fadeddreams5]

Zamasu (not Black) is an overrated villain.

We never truly see this character evolve much; the minute he's introduced, he already holds contempt towards humans. We never see him accomplish anything, though we know from word of mouth that he has. He can't even kill humans. He was also embarrassed multiple times in the arc (i.e. Hakai, Mafuba, punched in the face while he talks, and sliced while he had a mental breakdown).

Really, the issue isn't the villain himself, but the structure of the story, which emphasized on the mystery of Goku Black, over giving us a linear plot in which we ultimately saw Zamasu become Goku Black with our own two eyes. Also, the setting restricted the story. By setting, I mean the time period it's set in, where we have all these gods of destruction and angels around. Zamasu HAD to remain in the future, and the future isn't where our main cast lives, making Zamasu's threat less meaningful, imo. Ultimately, this character never made any impact either, besides serve to infuse Trunks with hax.

We pretty much saw him change, at first he was an apprentice with doubts, he had been observing the mortals for a long time and he couldn't see why they had to be protected; after fighting Goku and meeting the Barbarians, he realized that mortals could be even dangerous for the gods, he starts to see them as evil and he's corrupted, and in the last episode, he went insane with all the contradictions that were kept inside himself, and he pretty much became a monster, something worse than what he hates.

His change and evolution in a nutshell:
>I think mortals are a flawed creation...because.
>*Meets Goku for a few minutes*
>I KNOW mortals are a flawed creation.

The godtube and barbarians weren't needed at that point. He was already cracked.

The manga has handled his development much better, but unfortunately, Toyataro doesn't have much pages to really flesh everything out like it should be.

[Son Gara]

Yajirobe could beat Videl in a fight.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The recent Super retcon about the potara earrings only lasting an hour if neither of the fused characters were a Kai was a good idea. I see this revelation in the same way as Darth Vader being Luke's father, not all retcons are bad. I personally like the idea a fusion is this powerful it should have restrictions.

[nite_jay]

The recent Super retcon about the potara earrings only lasting an hour if neither of the fused characters were a Kai was a good idea. I see this revelation in the same way as Darth Vader being Luke's father, not all retcons are bad. I personally like the idea a fusion is this powerful it should have restrictions.

I think it was needed as well. Now potara fusion would've been OP because you could just defuse with the Dragonballs, anyway.

[Doctor.]

Zamasu (not Black) is an overrated villain.

We never truly see this character evolve much; the minute he's introduced, he already holds contempt towards humans. We never see him accomplish anything, though we know from word of mouth that he has. He can't even kill humans. He was also embarrassed multiple times in the arc (i.e. Hakai, Mafuba, punched in the face while he talks, and sliced while he had a mental breakdown).

Really, the issue isn't the villain himself, but the structure of the story, which emphasized on the mystery of Goku Black, over giving us a linear plot in which we ultimately saw Zamasu become Goku Black with our own two eyes. Also, the setting restricted the story. By setting, I mean the time period it's set in, where we have all these gods of destruction and angels around. Zamasu HAD to remain in the future, and the future isn't where our main cast lives, making Zamasu's threat less meaningful, imo. Ultimately, this character never made any impact either, besides serve to infuse Trunks with hax.

We pretty much saw him change, at first he was an apprentice with doubts, he had been observing the mortals for a long time and he couldn't see why they had to be protected; after fighting Goku and meeting the Barbarians, he realized that mortals could be even dangerous for the gods, he starts to see them as evil and he's corrupted, and in the last episode, he went insane with all the contradictions that were kept inside himself, and he pretty much became a monster, something worse than what he hates.

His change and evolution in a nutshell:
>I think mortals are a flawed creation...because.
>*Meets Goku for a few minutes*
>I KNOW mortals are a flawed creation.

The godtube and barbarians weren't needed at that point. He was already cracked.

The manga has handled his development much better, but unfortunately, Toyataro doesn't have much pages to really flesh everything out like it should be.

You're simplifying Zamasu's development too much. Sure, we never saw the full transition from good to evil, but to say he was already cracked isn't true. In his first appearance, he seems pretty conservative in his ideas. All he says is that mortals don't seem to learn from their mistakes and are always causing destruction, so he wonders if they are really worth protecting. It's only when he meets Goku that we're shown his extreme racism, but this isn't unusual for Gods (Beerus showcased it and the manga even made a joke about Kibito disliking mortals). After being beaten by Goku, he acknowledges the fact that mortals are not only driven by violence, but they can also be dangerous because they surpass Gods. But the transition wasn't complete yet. The transition to evil only becomes complete after he has that "justice" talk with Gowasu, where he questions what his job as a Kaioshin should be.

I don't think it's fair to exclude Black when talking about Zamasu. They're the same character. Sure, Black was influenced by Goku's Saiyan instincts and differed from Zamasu in one or two aspects in terms of feelings, but the core personality and ideals were the same. They didn't split up Zamasu into three different characters (four if you include the fusion as its own seperate entity) for nothing, it was supposed to show us how the character would end up in different circumstances. Present Zamasu showcases Zamasu's fall from grace, Black showcases what Zamasu would be had he acted upon his ideals, and Future Zamasu shows up what Zamasu would be if he remained a covert narcissist and never acted upon his ideals, you can even see that at first he seems to show care for Gowasu after Black murders him and is hesitant to accept Black's offer. Fusion Zamasu, thus, is Zamasu's success, which then turns to failure.

Even his hypocritical nature, which was the main point people criticized him for, was explained. "Why does he kill the other Gods if he values them above mortals?" Because he feels as though the other Gods' justice isn't right and his is absolute. "Why did he steal Goku's body if he hates mortals?" Because he's so pretentious that he takes it upon himself to hold all of the sins of the Gods and the mortals into one body, he literally cried at his own "selfishness" and how disfigured his perfect body became due to it.

Zamasu isn't by any means a "deep" character and the entire "Absolute God" archetype has been done to death in other shows and mediums, but Zamasu is still for sure the most complex and well-written of the DB villains.