Senzu_Bean wrote:dbgtFO wrote:... when it is obvious that they were simply holding back all along.
Actually that doesn't work not to mention it goes against manga, guides, etc. Let me quote the great
Herms:
That's just his opinion, it's not fact. Yes, he's very knowledgeable on the series, and has access to a lot of the extra information that's out there, but that doesn't make his opinion 100% fact, either.
What's more, the manga leaves a
huge opening for the idea that the future and past Androids had the same power and Trunks was just misinformed. The manga
does support that possibility, and say that it doesn't goes against what Toriyama wrote, and is just you "believing you know more than the manga."
Senzu_Bean wrote:FindKenshi wrote:Well yes, we all respect Herms and the work he's put in towards the Dragonball community, but that doesnt' mean we're not allowed to disagree with him. >_>
But the truth is you really don't have much room for that sort of explanation. Less than 50 is 49 or 48, not 20 or 10.
Not saying you're aren't only contradict the guides but the manga too.
Less than half is less than half. Sure, it could be 49%, but that's reeeally pushing it. All 'less than half' means is that it's less than half. Could he have said 45% or some other exact number? Yes. Did he? No. End result? Anything from 1% to 49% is valid, though anything less than 33% (a third) is less plausible.
Not that it matters. Even a 10% difference is freakin'
huge in Dragonball. Say 17's maximum level of power is 1,000 and he fights against Gohan at 400. We'll say Gohan is 450. In order to utterly decimate Gohan without him having a chance to do anything 17 only needs to amp his power up to 600, tops, and Gohan is dust.
So then, going with Herms' concept we'll say that Trunks is a little stronger than Gohan was, and is at 470 now. 17 at 630 (still only 63% of his maximum) could bat him around like a ragdoll, without any resistance. Hell, even the 600 used to beat down Gohan would still be pretty overwhelming.
Hell, even if you go with 17 at half power (500), instead of less than half, and so put Gohan at 550 and Trunks at 575 17's still hands down beating Gohan's ass at 732 (73.2%) and Trunks's at 765 (76.5%).
So yeah, plenty of room.
Senzu_Bean wrote:FindKenshi wrote:Also you seem pretty behind the guides as well, but would you say Nappa had a battle power of only 4000 to Piccolo's 3500?
Of course!
And there-in you have just walked yourself into a hole, my friend. The fact is, accepting those numbers contradicts the manga. And I'm not talking about Nappa. Gohan's Masenko clocked in at 2,800. Piccolo states that Gohan is stronger than him. Therefor, 2,800 > Piccolo. 3,500 he is not.
The guides are
not infallible.
Senzu_Bean wrote:No, cause there is no such thing as retcon in that scene.
That is your opinion. Your opinion is not fact.
Senzu_Bean wrote:The Daizenshuu don't say such thing.
It does, actually. One says that Gohan used SSJ2 against Dabura. In another there's a list of all the different times various SSJ levels were used. This area lists Gohan using SSJ2 at the Cell Games and at the tournament facing Kibito, but never again after that.
JulieYBM wrote:Why are we assuming Gokû's strength didn't settle down...after he settled down? Gokû probably could have gone for the kill with one blow had he tried but was decidedly letting the fight drag out for a bit. He certainly had the upperhand the entire time (right up until Nappa decided to go after Kuririn and Gohan).
Heck, he purposefully knocked him around giving him a blow for each of his friends.
The problem with this is once Nappa calmed down Goku commented that "this could take forever" and the only thing he was holding back against him was the Kaioken. Thus the only way it could take forever was if Nappa was near his own power.
Scarz wrote:Eh. I don't really like the explanation given here. The whole "You won't be able to walk after 10 years" is a bit of a stretch. In future Trunks' timeline Android #18 and #17 were perfectly fine after 10 years.
Don't forget that DBM is occurring sometime around what would be the GT era or so. Yamcha isn't likely meaning that just 10 years without maintenance would make them invalids, but that
another 10 years on top of what they've gone through already would. Which would be around, what? 30 or 40 years of total time? They'd only been going for 17 years in Trunks's time.
Anyway, on the matter of the actual page now....
Eh. I don't much like that they're going with the power loss thing when it's entirely unneeded, and has a high chance of not even being true in the first place. The reason for it makes some level of sense, but at the same time you'd figure if Gero was smart enough to create the infinite energy reactors in the
first place, he'd have also created some means of keeping the two of them, you know, in top form.
TonyTheTiger wrote:I can accept that the infinite energy of the androids isn't entirely infinite. I can also accept Yamcha being substantially more powerful than 18 and wanting to help her. What bothers me is the whole "you won't be able to walk" thing. It just goes 10% too far for my tastes.
Yeah. The not being able to move is a bit much. Even if the IER were to cease working they're still mostly human. They'd simply 'turn back' into normal people, power wise.
The idea they wouldn't notice the power loss is a bit far fetched as well.
