NintendoBlaze53 wrote:VejituhTheWarriorGuy wrote:You know you guys are right, I mean we thought the Speedy video dub was bad but those actors just needed time to get into their roles I mean it wasn't THAT bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW05kibG3xU
...No but really, the problem isn't Lex's voice as that is subjective. The problem is how he acted to people who looked up to him and respected him as an actor such as myself. The man has been voice acting since the 90's, some alternate dub isn't going to be the end of his career
I meant time to grow into their roles like the Funimation actors have, through time and practice. And I can relate to Lex, to be a content creator, which an actor is, and actually wanting to engage with people and find out what you can fix only to be met with "Lex Lang is miscast" "Lex Lang isn't what I imagine Goku to be" "Goku would never say that line". Very few people here actually offered criticism for stuff he can fix. He can fix his line delivery and tone, BUT only if the ADR director says he can. Lex must feel disappointed that all the hate he's getting he can't fix, after he took the time to try and get some criticism here at Kanzenshuu. I don't blame the guy for being upset, I've seen other voice actors have the same reaction to such things including Sean Schemmel and Sonny Strait.
ProjectAlpha22 wrote:
So, before I begin here, I would like to say that I am not trying to directly single out or criticize anyone here.
I respect all of you as people as well as fellow Dragon Ball fans, and hope you will in turn hear me out. With that in mind, let me address a few of your statements.
"May I also remind you that 95% of us should have never seen this dub, we are not this dubs intended audience."
- I would like to say first, that this is a completely true statement. This dub was made for Toonami Asia, and nothing else. That being said, why does that mean we cannot critique or enjoy this equally? Many people prefer the Japanese voice of Masako Nozawa or the Ocean Dub, and many of us are not the intended audience. Geography does not exclude something from criticism.
"Kaiji Tang has been taking people's criticism of his Vegeta and explaining how he intends to voice the characters."
- Once again, a very true statement. The difference between the way that Lex Lang (while justified) and Kaiji Tang have taken criticism however, is quite different. Kaiji has been nothing but humble in regards to his role. While Lex has broadly generalized in statements such as '"I suppose most of you are between 15-25 years old on these posts, so I don't expect much evolved thinking from this thread, but as human beings, perhaps there is a shred of compassion in you that you can show along the way.", Kaiji has said "I actually welcome critique of my work because it helps me get better as a performer. You can't grind levels without challenges. <3" and "Current work in progress for my own notes. Growl is too forced. More natural next time. Do smoother reads overall.". There is an unarguable difference in the way criticism has been handled. I can also bet you Kaiji has either read these forums or gotten shit-talking messages through social media, but rather than revolt has been nothing but understanding.
"These Bang Zoom actors don't have the 10+ years experience with these characters that Funimation's actors have. "
- Partially true, but here is the thing: Lex Lang himself has 23 years. He started in 1994. Also, we have a few other veterans like Wendee Lee. There are newcomers, however, that much is true.
I would like to continue in a civil manner, and if anyone has any objections to my statements, please help me see your point of view.
Well the Japanese version has an official release in for our regions. Therefore we are an intended audience. Almost ALL of us are pirating this dub. As Lex said, those watching Toonami Asia are loving it, cause they are judging the dub as a standalone product released for them. How do you think the UK felt having the Ocean dub back in 2004ish? People have also been much kinder to Kaiji then Lex. Twitter users are being more understanding to the hurdles with this dub then a Dragon Ball fansite, that scares me a little. Again, Kaiji is getting complaints he can fix with his delivery, Lex is getting complaints out of his control and in the hands of the ADR Director. And any voice actor no mater the experience will tell you how hard it is to take on a new character in a dub, decisions between what direction to take the voice and if it should be delivered close to the Japanese or not, how to make the voice sound different then your past roles so you can further yourself as a actor. These are a few of the problems every voice actor faces no matter the amount of experience in the industry. It can take years for them to finally settle on a way to voice the character as evidenced with dub of Dragon Ball and One Piece. Very few actors instantly slot into the role, especially when fans have previous opinions on how the character should sound.
"Son Goku: Not a fan of Lex Lang at all. He's not offensively bad or anything, but he's just not got the same energy as Schemmel or the child-like tone and pitch of Nozawa. He's just... so normal sounding, honestly. Also, he sounds *uncomfortably* similar to Greg Universe. (A personal hangup, obviously, but man I can't get over it.) His foley is also terrible in comparison. Whoever is directing this dub needs to let these actors breath."-KaizerNeko
" I don't really like Lang's Goku. It's lacking the childlike mannerisms that I think are important for Goku. Schemmel's got that side of the character down perfectly these days, so I find that much easier on the ears as a fan of Nozawa. Hearing a straighter performance doesn't quite sit right with me. I did enjoy the Bruce Lee yells, though."-Ajay
"Lex Lang is definitely a talented actor but with all due respect I do feel he may have been miscast. Even after watching a whole episode it still feels too much like a Winnie The Pooh voice for Goku, something that could have been saved for Botamo (although this could still happen it would feel jarring for Goku and Botamo to sound that similar). That said I will give his performance some time, it may well grow on me, I just need to see more of the dub first." -Dragon Ball Ireland
"His voice, it's too low. Also, he held back on those yells. I'll come back to him when the episode ends, but for now I'm not a fan unfortunately...Lex takes me out of the immersion, I'll give it another episode, but I dunno. Also, if you wanna talk about Super-Hero Goku, this
script makes him that. "Love-Ya Both" is not something Goku would say. " - ProjectAlpha22
While there were some shit-talkers, just reading through I found many people giving valid critiques. Also, to your "standalone product" comment, this still doesn't answer my question of why it is exempt from our critique. Sure, we have to pirate to watch it, why does that make it so we can't tell what we like and dislike about it? The reason, I can almost guarantee you, why the Japanese version of Dragonball is sold in the west is people asked for it. If people hadn't learned about it through other means and advocated for it, why would they go through the trouble to bring it here? If there were no people who had asked for it, they wouldn't have risked it, that's Supply and Demand. Also, nobody expected this dub to be perfect from the get-go, and I believe many of us state that with time and experience this dub could be great. What we were doing was simply giving advice for what we would like to hear. They can take it or leave it, but as the entertainer you must show grace and not push people away. I feel that is fair, but once again you are entitled to your own opinion.
EDIT: Bolded the word script. I wanted to show that there was at-least some blame put on the ADR, at least in my case. Plenty of others brought up the script as a problem though, not just me.
