Budokai 3 Confirmation

[Jerseymilk]

With the bigger image, it looks more like a release of energy coming from the planet now to me.

[Fuujin]

So maybe they'll pull a Bukuu Tougeki and make the Death Ball attack destroy the planet after about a minute?

Freezer wins.

Fatality!

[Izlude]

So maybe they'll pull a Bukuu Tougeki and make the Death Ball attack destroy the planet after about a minute?

Freezer wins.

Fatality!

That would be so cheap.

I hope Androids 16/17/18 have infinite ki then ^^

[johnboy1]

I recognized that shot the second I saw it. That is the Spirit Bomb, the Genki Dama, the... really big ball of life energy.

Frieza's gonna get fried baby!! *shakes hips*

Okay, that's over. I think that B3 is going to achieve something that has never been done before: it is going to be an accurate VG representation of Dragon Ball Z/GT (minus power levels, which would make the game unfair).

I mean, look at it... it's... BEAUTIFUL!!!! The ENTIRE WORLD is explorable! I never even dreamed of that. I hope they have landmarks in the appropriate places where, if you know the map from Daizenshuu 7 (is that where it is?), you can easily find the Kame House, Korin's Tower, the World Tournament ring, and (apparently, from the HTC stage) Kami's Lookout!!

This is going to be, without a doubt, the best Christmas present I could ever ask for (besides a girlfriend). Hurray!! Life has meaning now!

[Izlude]

I still think Budokai 3 won't compare to Super Sonic Warriors in terms of gameplay. All Dimps is doing is rehashing the same fighting engine and making it so the game controls more of the action, and you have to press fewer buttons to make it happen.

[Xyex]

I still think Budokai 3 won't compared to Super Sonic Warriors in terms of gameplay. All Dimps is doing is rehashing the same fighting engine and making it so the game controls more of the action, and you have to press fewer buttons to make it happen.

*Buzzer sounds* Sorry, thank-you for playing, please try again.

Actually, they re-did the engine this time around from what I've heard. And beyond that, SSW is so freaking boring and annoying. I prefer the Budokai 1 & 2 engines over SSW. Granted, SSW was leagues beyond Taiketsu but it still does not compare to even B1.

[*PINHEAD*]

I don't think those dudes at Atari or whatever makes the games will integrate ki into the way it's actually used in the series. But of course, having it the way it is in the series would make an unfair game, with characters having more than others, blah blah blah. But it would be cool to have the androids have unlimited ki/energy.

If that's the Genki Dama Son Goku used against Freeza....how would they show the Genki Dama he used against Boo? Is it just me or does that planet look more like Earth than Namek?

[Deus ex Machina]

It may be 'unfair' to have some characters grossly stronger than others, but I think it's even more unfair for a SSJ3 Goku to lose to Raditz...That's just it, in the DBZ world, fighters are not created equal.

[Izlude]

Actually, they re-did the engine this time around from what I've heard.

Watch the Goku vs. Goku video, it plays (and sounds)exactly like the first two Budokai games, except there is more "action sequences".

In SSW you at least had full control without cinematics taking over durring the fight, leaving your oppenent completely defenseless, plus, a lot of the characters have their own strengths/weakness' with their own traits, while in Budokai, every character is practically the same.

In many magazine articles, the producer of the game explains he is aware of many of the complaints and feedback from the previous Budokai games, and claims they have been addressed, and yet, seeing this full video of the game itself, show casing about four rounds of fighting, I've come to the conclusion that this game is just more of the same, but in a new shiney package.

I'm sure Budokai 3's new additions such as warping, and the new "chase mode" will make for some fun, for the hardcore Dragon Ball Z fan no less, but the thing is, while its GREAT they are making a game that captures the action of the show, when the game forces you to sit back and watch while Goku follows you, and then gives you and your oppenent some limited choices in actions (like the Playdia game), it becomes a dull gameplay experience, despite being a great looking game.

And that is the problem, who wants to watch a game? Isnt it all about playing it? But there isnt so much playing when you got Gohan with Goku backing him up unleashing a full powered Kamehameha while you sit their twiddling your analog sticks round and round hoping you'll at least take 1/2 damage. What if you could jump into the air and avoid it? What if you could slap that huge blast away, or even absorb it, and all in real-time?

Of course, I'll reserve my bitter judgement when I actually sit down and play the game, but from what I've seen of Budokai 3 so far (which is nearly a complete game here), it still doesnt seem that much different than Budokai 1 and 2, in which both games had a lot of un-used potential (and dvd space might I add).

[Deus ex Machina]

I'm forced to agree with Izlude on that; even though the new warping feature looks great, the fighting engine itself doesn't look much different from Budokai 2. While it may be cool to be able to fly over an enemies ultimate attack, it would be a pain in the ass when they do it to you too.

[Mugenmidget]

Well, Xyex is naturally defensive over Budokai.

I'd have to agree that after watching the Goku vs. Goku movie. It looks REALLY cool, but aside from getting to teleport instead of sidestep out of everything, there hasn't been much improvement so far.

Although, arguably Supersonic Warriors is still reeaaalllyy simplified compared to most fighting games. But that may be its beauty, for you feel as if you're able to control the battle from the get go.

Budokai can get deep with cancel combos and other nit picky "evades," but the fact that people have to dig this deep just to get the same basic enjoyment they can get out of almost any fighting game is sort of ridiculous.

[Deus ex Machina]

I can't believe I didn't notice this before; after re checking all those Budokai pics, I noticed battle-damaged Goku as being a playable character from the start. Maybe this means more fighters will get battle-damaged costumes, instead of alternate colors.

[Izlude]

To really dig deep into Budokai's fighting mechanics I think, you got to pretty much learn the timing of every command you input, abit similiar to Mortal Kombat:Deadily Alliance or even Killer Instinct.

However, in Budokai's case, the second you figure that out, you can play any single character in the game, and that is what spoils the real fun of Budokai compared to any other fighting game, even MK and KI and the recent Yu Yu Hakusho:Dark Tournment, which wasnt very good, but at least had unique characters, as MK and KI both possessed as well.

I guess the idea of really capturing the show of DBZ in a fighting game proves furthermore that the show is made up of very genric fighters, although a lot of us fans dont really want to think that, especially considering the original manga. Although earlier DBZ fighters never had this problem really, like in Super Butoden and Hyper Dimension.

Remember back in the day when Piccolo had his own kickass style that was made up of kicks, eye beams and guided ki blasts? Or how about Vegeta with his downward flying energy kicks and disks? Goku with his insanely cheap spin kick combo, Gohan with his mix of Piccolo and Goku's style? Those now, were good days, even Final Bout provided a good amount of diversity to an extent, although poor programming pretty much killed it...but hey, it was a good idea on paper ^^

But the problem with Super Butoden and the older DBZ games is, they didnt really capture the true feel of the show, only Legends, SSW and Budokai have even come close, Legends and SSW being the much more enjoyable games IMO, but Super Butoden (as well as Hyper Dimension) had some nice fighting engines for back in their day, you could save yourself from being thrown, knock your oppenent around, counter super moves in several ways, and each character had their own unique moves.

What we really need is a DBZ game that goes back to its roots, Butoden style, but making use of our much more advanced technology, surpassing even Shin Butoden in quality! Then make the game about as fast as SSW, and you'll have a helluva game, and not just a DBZ game.

Like I always said, Arc System Works is #1 when it comes to fighters (Afterall, they are made up of guys from Capcom+SNK),likewise, if they get to do another DBZ game, one for a next-gen system, it will not only capture the spirit of the show, but prove to be a furious competitive fighter all on its own as well. One can only hope... but I suppose intil then, we have Dimp's 3rd try at Budokai, it looks beautiful, but how will it actually play compared to the last two attempts and will it offer anything really new and unique that will save this tired fighting engine? Next month we'll find out I guess...

[Xyex]

First of all, Hyper Dimension far exceeds SSW in all ways. SSW is to Hyper Dimension what Taiketsu is to Budokai. SSW is dull and boring beyond belief and the moves for the characters are bland, boring, and worthless. The only thing that's interesting about SSW are the what-if stories, and the only reason I even want that game.

Secondly, I'm getting really tired of hearing "If you master one character you've mastered them all" for Budokai, because believe me it's not true. There's a few characters I can win with almost all the time. Goku, Vegeta, Chibi Trunks, and Krillin. And then there's ones like Yamcha where it's far more of a challenge.

Yes, a lot of Budokai's moves are repeated by other characters, but tell me, when have you seen in DBZ two character fighting with COMPLETELY different moves and motions? One throw is the same is the next. Hell, even Hyper Dimension re-used the same moves at time. All of the DBZ games did.

The cancel combos are varried and different for the different characters. They're not completely different, no, but there's enough varriance that mastering one means jack shit with the rest. Even with just the basic move sets this is evident. Goku's PPKK isn't blockable while Vegeta's is.

And a good distinction of the different kinds of basic punches and kicks comes in with characters like Ginyu and Vegetto. Both have several real time punches and kicks you don't see on other characters. Yeah, the combo moves are similar to other characters's, but you know why? This game is, just like the show, aimed for the younger audiences.

The little kids need to be able to pick up the control and play. And yet the cancel combos exist adding depth to the game for the older players. What works great for one character could be worthless with another, and often is.

I'm probably one of the few people that likes the Budokai fighting engine from B1 and B2, even though I'm not that great at the cancel combos. And I think that's why. Give me a month with any other fighting game to master a couple of characters and I'm done with it because that's all there is. But with these games it's different. Don't know why, don't care.

And another thing I'm sick and tired of too is the 'We can't jump!' and 'We can't duck!' and the 'Hoping back is stupid!' as well as the 'Where's the side stepping!' complaints from the first 2. Well, we've got dash back now, plus real side stepping and teleportation. To tell the truth, I couldn't care less. Yeah, it's cool, and it's changing the way the game will be played, but I would have been fine with the old system.

I don't need to jump (almost never use it in games where I can anyway) and ducking is pointless as well. You want to side step? Then dodge it moron, it's not that hard. And you can't dash backwards, fine, who cares? You're fighting anyway, not playing tag.

Bleh, now I'm just ranting and blowing steam. I'm going to stop now before I write a 50 page rant.

[Deus ex Machina]

Also, ducking and jumping would be useless as the game producer said. Imagine Broli fighting Kuririn; if Kuririn jumped, he'd still end up getting nailed with a regular punch. If Broli ducked, he'd still get punched in the face by Kuririn. The sizes are just way too different.

[Izlude]

Secondly, I'm getting really tired of hearing "If you master one character you've mastered them all" for Budokai, because believe me it's not true.

Every character fights exactly the same, there is no diversity in playing styles for each character, its just pick your favorite character and play. There is no "tiers", no characters have advantages over others, no characters are weaker than others, there is nothing that seperates each character from the others.

Play any of the older DBZ games like Butoden, Hyper Dimension, every character played differently. Goku was a bit slow, but he had a nice high jump, strong beam attack, good combo ability, Piccolo jumped lower, but he was fast, great at stunning oppenents, Cell was practical invaulnerable in close-range combat, and Freeza was a BEAST from screens distance away. Every character had their own technique and strengths/weakness that made them different.

Even in Super Sonic Warriors, every character has something different, whether their ki blasts are guided, their ki charges faster/slower, they cause more/less damage, heal, they have shortened/lengthened delays and reaction times, have time limits (Gotenks), and they all had their own unique close-range grab type move. But I particularly like SSW because its very fast and is a very hands on kind of game that doesnt put out any stops.

but tell me, when have you seen in DBZ two character fighting with COMPLETELY different moves and motions?

See original DragonBall and early DragonBall Z ^^

One throw is the same is the next. Hell, even Hyper Dimension re-used the same moves at time. All of the DBZ games did.

Not always, some throws may be grab moves that hit multiple times, while some throws may trip your oppenent, or send them away from you flying, providing some distance between the two. The only moves Hyper Dimension and all the older DBZ games ever re-used were Gohan and Piccolo's downward machine gun kick, otherwise, everyone had their own unique move sets. Play Butoden 1/2/3, Hyper Dimension, Final Bout, UB22 and Shin Butoden, all different. I'll even take screenshots and scan the manuals if I must ^^

The cancel combos are varried and different for the different characters. They're not completely different, no, but there's enough varriance that mastering one means jack shit with the rest. Even with just the basic move sets this is evident. Goku's PPKK isn't blockable while Vegeta's is.

You can tap block or side step durring a combo and "cancel" it, and then throw in a couple other moves if you want, big deal, thats pathetically easy to do with any character. You can button mash and hit block and cancel all sorts of moves and make up unblockables, its extremely cheap. This game is FULL of infinites. I got some Budokai vids of characters doing full life combos.

Sure they are fun to watch, but when your playing the actual game, its not very cool being suckered into the same 100% damage infinite with no way out, which ends up breaking the fighting engine althogether. I am not sure about Budokai 2, but the 1st Budokai was FULL of infinites.

And a good distinction of the different kinds of basic punches and kicks comes in with characters like Ginyu and Vegetto. Both have several real time punches and kicks you don't see on other characters.

However, that doesnt make up for everything else.

Yeah, the combo moves are similar to other characters's, but you know why? This game is, just like the show, aimed for the younger audiences.

And that is an excuse to make a fighting game that requires little skill to just plain button mashing to be good at? Common, Yu Yu Hakusho:Dark Tournment is more complex than Budokai and its aimed at the exact same crowd.

The little kids need to be able to pick up the control and play.

Agreed, but then again, it depends on how smart your average 13 year old is then again, and most 13 year olds can kick a lot of ass in Tekken or Virtua Fighter.

I'm probably one of the few people that likes the Budokai fighting engine from B1 and B2, even though I'm not that great at the cancel combos. And I think that's why. Give me a month with any other fighting game to master a couple of characters and I'm done with it because that's all there is. But with these games it's different. Don't know why, don't care.

The thing is, with other fighters you practice and master some characters and play againest your friends, this is what fuels competition, however the Budokai games are hardly competitive material. Fighting games are all about competition, they require keen skill to really be good at. Budokai is just simply...I cant belive I'm going to say this... but here goes - Too balanced for its own good. I mean it, this game is so balanced, its insane. Sure balance is a good thing to go for when developing a fighter, but too much balance can break a game. There is no imbalances really.

I don't need to jump (almost never use it in games where I can anyway) and ducking is pointless as well.

Jumping and crouching has always been an integral part of fighting games, jumping is perfect for setting up offensive strikes, as well as avoiding ground-based charges, and crouching allows you to beef up or start a nasty combo, or just sweep your enemy off their feet. Dont say they are pointless, they are VITAL to these games.

[qupte]Also, ducking and jumping would be useless as the game producer said. Imagine Broli fighting Kuririn; if Kuririn jumped, he'd still end up getting nailed with a regular punch. If Broli ducked, he'd still get punched in the face by Kuririn. The sizes are just way too different.[/quote]

That is very lame though, just simply give the character a high jumping hieght. We've all seen characters jump in DBZ right? They Jump HIGH!

Imagine in Guilty Gear, tiny lil old Kliff


and he jumps over the HULKING Potekmin


Simple as that. Or even better, have this HUUUUUGE anti-gravity jumps like in old school Virtua Fighter 1 or 2!

But also, size would help play a good role in strategy in a fight. Example, in King of Fighters, Choi is reaaally small, so you have to jump in or crouch to hit him, and Chang is huge, but his lower defenses are rather weak, but he is strong againest mid height fighters and has good anti-air attacks.

Things like size should play an important role in fighting games, other than how slow they move. But what can I say, I love my fighting games, and I've give nothing more than to see a next-gen DBZ game that can top Shin Butoden.

[Xyex]

I'm only going to touch on a few things here since I'm really not in a debating mood right now. Fist of all, there are 'tiers' in Budokai, they're just smaller and harder to discern than in most games. Secondly, I know all about the infamous infininte of Android 17. He was also the only one with an infinite and only in B1. That fact blows out your theory that all cancel combos are the same as well, or everyone would have had that infinate. Each character DOES play differently, it's just not as extensive as in games such as Tekken or SC2.

Also, I have played the old SNES DBZ fighters and I can tell you this. Nothing you said held true for me on them. Frieza played the same as Cell who played the same as Goku in all of them. I didn't notice a single thing that set them apart from each other beyond appearances. None of them were faster or slower or stronger or weaker. They all played the same.

Next I'm going to talk about your 'keen skill' comments. I can tell you right now that if I were to fight someone who was a PPPPE player I'd kick their asses left and right. I know, I did that with my cousin for months. ^^ Then I got stupid and started teaching him how to actually play the game and he started winning now and then. And then I played against someone who kicks ass with the cancel combos and couldn't do jack against him. Trust me, there is skill involved. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. ^_^

Lastly, about your jumping and ducking, um, no. The only game I ever ducked in was MK and that was just to do the big uppercuts. Otherwise, nope. I don't jump and I don't duck because it's not needed. Okay, correction, I'll jump or duck when I'm bored and don't want a challange to the game anymore. I mean seriously, it makes the fights a million times easier when you can do just one let alone both.

[VegettoEX]

Getting back to the "OMG OMG!! YAY!!" feeling of the thread...

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/drag ... media.html

Opening theme! Neato! We've pretty much seen all the important screen-caps from it already, but it's cool to see it all in motion. And of course... theme song... audio... wheee~.

First impression?

THE SONG: It's not as immediately catchy as "Kusuburu Heart...," but it's still got that classic DBZ feel to it that brings a smile to your face. Looking forward to the vocal version WITH OMG EVERYONE SINGING!!!!!

THE VIDEO: It's surprisingly got... err... SLOW parts to it. By that I mean it's not constantly in motion with fast, timed things/actions like the Budokai 2 opening. It's still aaaaaaabsolutely gorgeous, though ^^;;.

[Super Sonic]

Nice intro. Did anyone else notice that they had Lunch in there?

[VegettoEX]

Nice intro. Did anyone else notice that they had Lunch in there?

Yeah... that was a neat little touch ^^;;. The folks at DIMPS damn well know the show they're working with, and have such fun little things for... well... me, apparently

Then again, I wonder if they even have any control over what the opening looks like... ? It might just be something like, "Here are the characters we want in the opening... Toei, animate something."