"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Totamo]

Actually yes it really is. We've seen Goku and Vegeta several damn times in Super. At first it was a good thing because we hadn't seen a lot of it in Z. But now Super has shown us more than enough their chemistry that it's become really dull.

How about Piccolo and Vegeta? We've never had them work together? Or Tenshinhan and Vegeta. Gohan and Vegeta? What about Goku and Piccolo, we haven't seen that in a very long time. We've had so many basic team ups that they're not very interesting. Hit and Goku is the closest to an interesting one we've had. I for one have had enough of Gohan and Piccolo, and Goku & Vegeta. We've seen that too much now. It was cool at first, but let's spice things up instead of chaining them down to each other too often.

Vegeta would never work with anyone weaker than him unless he had absolutely no choice. He does.

Piccolo and Goku worked together and it ended with a hole in Goku's chest.

You can easily write a story around Vegeta working with someone else. We don't have to be closed minded to him only being with Goku. This is a battle royale, we can have a multitude of possibilities instead of just balls and chains.

I don't think that'll happen again...remember no killing allowed in the tournament XP.

Actually yes it really is. We've seen Goku and Vegeta several damn times in Super. At first it was a good thing because we hadn't seen a lot of it in Z. But now Super has shown us more than enough their chemistry that it's become really dull.

How about Piccolo and Vegeta? We've never had them work together? Or Tenshinhan and Vegeta. Gohan and Vegeta? What about Goku and Piccolo, we haven't seen that in a very long time. We've had so many basic team ups that they're not very interesting. Hit and Goku is the closest to an interesting one we've had. I for one have had enough of Gohan and Piccolo, and Goku & Vegeta. We've seen that too much now. It was cool at first, but let's spice things up instead of chaining them down to each other too often.

Hit and Goku did not actually team up,they just took on an opponent each and then changed their opponents once.
Also Gohan and Piccolo did not team up either outside of that team attack in episode 97,they just stick close to each while they take on their opponents individually.
But yeah i agree that we need other team ups.

Yeah when I say team up, I more or less mean have their chemistry bounce off one another. We've mostly had everyone in their comfort zones, which I hope is shaken up soon. Gohan is always with Piccolo. Vegeta is alone but when he is with someone it's Goku. 17 and 18, etc. I mean some reunions are cool, but we gotta spice it up is all. Explore characters playing off of interactions they don't normally do. Hell having Freeza with Roshi even for a little bit would be interesting considering it's never happened before.

Of course, you can easily write one, but that doesn't mean it will be good or interesting. Not to mention Vegeta fans want him to have his own shine.


Imagine how they will feel tat he had to team up with 18 to win a fight.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I am genuinely surprised Vegeta has such a big fan base as he does, other than when he is bantering with Goku or being silly, he is either annoying or boring. Still though wish he died on Namek, that perfectly completed his story.

[Chuquita]

I'm not sure what they (Toei, Shueisha) want Vegeta to be this arc. I'm still enjoying Gokû, still enjoy seeing him and Vegeta interacting, but which Vegeta this will be is the question.

They can't exactly kick out Vegeta from this so there he is, just existing and doing stuff sometimes..
His personality even though is made entertaining again, freeza completely overshadows any need for that this arc..

They really went fully bombastic with Freeza where he is overshadowing a lot of other characters for better or worse, including Vegeta. Neither of them have been shown all that much so far since the tournament itself started though; leaving me to wonder what the plan is.

I'm not sure what they (Toei, Shueisha) want Vegeta to be this arc. I'm still enjoying Gokû, still enjoy seeing him and Vegeta interacting, but which Vegeta this will be is the question.

I think the cons of Vegeta are starting to show & why he's a boring character, Goku is limitless. Vegeta's been developed in the way he is what he is now. How he's written in the ToP so far is what I expect, otherwise you fall into the trap of completely writing him like a dick he was in the Cell arc (cough cough Toyotaro). Him wanting to be the last one standing is a personal milestone for him to achieve, just because he's accepted Goku being number 1 doesn't mean he isn't gonna stop aiming to beat him (something a number of fans misunderstand, Vegeta admitting was just a step into his development).

Vegeta feels really inconsistent this arc. What I'm getting from it is there's several different visions higher ups have for Vegeta and none of them can agree so instead we get all of them and it results in a messy, almost split-personality thing going on depending on who gets the final say that particular week. I agree he isn't doing so well in the manga as of late either.

I think I'm just going to have to ultimately ride this arc out and hope the next one has a clearer vision or at least makes a decision on what to do with Vegeta.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Vegeta feels really inconsistent this arc. What I'm getting from it is there's several different visions higher ups have for Vegeta and none of them can agree so instead we get all of them and it results in a messy, almost split-personality thing going on depending on who gets the final say that particular week. I agree he isn't doing so well in the manga as of late either.

I think I'm just going to have to ultimately ride this arc out and hope the next one has a clearer vision or at least makes a decision on what to do with Vegeta.

And that is the problem with Vegeta, his character is already been exhausted and it is time to move on. It makes sense why Goku is ditching Vegeta has a rival hopefully after this arc he completely does.

[dbzfan7]

Vegeta would never work with anyone weaker than him unless he had absolutely no choice. He does.

Piccolo and Goku worked together and it ended with a hole in Goku's chest.

You can easily write a story around Vegeta working with someone else. We don't have to be closed minded to him only being with Goku. This is a battle royale, we can have a multitude of possibilities instead of just balls and chains.

I don't think that'll happen again...remember no killing allowed in the tournament XP.

Hit and Goku did not actually team up,they just took on an opponent each and then changed their opponents once.
Also Gohan and Piccolo did not team up either outside of that team attack in episode 97,they just stick close to each while they take on their opponents individually.
But yeah i agree that we need other team ups.

Yeah when I say team up, I more or less mean have their chemistry bounce off one another. We've mostly had everyone in their comfort zones, which I hope is shaken up soon. Gohan is always with Piccolo. Vegeta is alone but when he is with someone it's Goku. 17 and 18, etc. I mean some reunions are cool, but we gotta spice it up is all. Explore characters playing off of interactions they don't normally do. Hell having Freeza with Roshi even for a little bit would be interesting considering it's never happened before.

Of course, you can easily write one, but that doesn't mean it will be good or interesting. Not to mention Vegeta fans want him to have his own shine.


Imagine how they will feel tat he had to team up with 18 to win a fight.

Can't be any less interesting than the by the numbers stuff they do with Goku and Vegeta as a pair. Only way that could be possible is if they looked at each other once, and that was it.

We need more interesting hook ups and interactions. It's been so plain most of the time among our universe that we might as well should have just had one on one battles if it was gonna be this uninteresting.

[Whatever]

Vegeta feels really inconsistent this arc. What I'm getting from it is there's several different visions higher ups have for Vegeta and none of them can agree so instead we get all of them and it results in a messy, almost split-personality thing going on depending on who gets the final say that particular week. I agree he isn't doing so well in the manga as of late either.

I think I'm just going to have to ultimately ride this arc out and hope the next one has a clearer vision or at least makes a decision on what to do with Vegeta.

And that is the problem with Vegeta, his character is already been exhausted and it is time to move on. It makes sense why Goku is ditching Vegeta has a rival hopefully after this arc he completely does.

The problem is not that Goku does not ditch Vegeta as a rival,quite the opposite actually,he has ditched Vegeta a long time ago.
The problem is that the narrative does not ditch Vegeta as Goku's 'eternal' rival despite Goku clearly not caring,so in the we have a forced rivalry that we need to pretend
that it exists and is being pushed onto us.

[Kanassa]

Vegeta feels really inconsistent this arc.

How has he been inconsistent?

[TheOne]

Vegeta feels really inconsistent this arc. What I'm getting from it is there's several different visions higher ups have for Vegeta and none of them can agree so instead we get all of them and it results in a messy, almost split-personality thing going on depending on who gets the final say that particular week. I agree he isn't doing so well in the manga as of late either.

I think I'm just going to have to ultimately ride this arc out and hope the next one has a clearer vision or at least makes a decision on what to do with Vegeta.

And that is the problem with Vegeta, his character is already been exhausted and it is time to move on. It makes sense why Goku is ditching Vegeta has a rival hopefully after this arc he completely does.

The problem is not that Goku does not ditch Vegeta as a rival,quite the opposite actually,he has ditched Vegeta a long time ago.
The problem is that the narrative does not ditch Vegeta as Goku's 'eternal' rival despite Goku clearly not caring,so in the we have a forced rivalry that we need to pretend
that it exists and is being pushed onto us.

The anime is the one that's made it seem like Vegeta isn't a rival anymore. The manga makes it transparent that they're still on par.

I've heard people say that the anime is going to have to start following the manga soon. If that's the case, they'll make Vegeta rivals in the anime again. Just like they adopted the SSG to SSB idea.

[Jigurashi]

Vegeta feels really inconsistent this arc. What I'm getting from it is there's several different visions higher ups have for Vegeta and none of them can agree so instead we get all of them and it results in a messy, almost split-personality thing going on depending on who gets the final say that particular week. I agree he isn't doing so well in the manga as of late either.

I think I'm just going to have to ultimately ride this arc out and hope the next one has a clearer vision or at least makes a decision on what to do with Vegeta.

And that is the problem with Vegeta, his character is already been exhausted and it is time to move on. It makes sense why Goku is ditching Vegeta has a rival hopefully after this arc he completely does.

The problem is not that Goku does not ditch Vegeta as a rival,quite the opposite actually,he has ditched Vegeta a long time ago.
The problem is that the narrative does not ditch Vegeta as Goku's 'eternal' rival despite Goku clearly not caring,so in the we have a forced rivalry that we need to pretend
that it exists and is being pushed onto us.

Thank you. This is how it really is. It's why I have an issue. I don't have an issue with Vegeta being far inferior to Goku. I have an issue with him being far inferior to Goku but the story expecting me to take him seriously as a rival. Goku hasn't given a single fuck about Vegeta as a rival in ages, but the story continues to promote him as Goku's "eternal rival" when it's a stretch to even call them rivals at this point. Either bother to make Vegeta a legitimate rival, or retire him as a rival. Retiring him from the rival role doesn't mean he needs to lose screen time, it just means that this series shouldn't try to pretend that there's this fierce rivalry between the two but is quick to trash Vegeta to show off how much better Goku is since that's Vegetable patch's primary role in the series: To make Goku look better.

And that is the problem with Vegeta, his character is already been exhausted and it is time to move on. It makes sense why Goku is ditching Vegeta has a rival hopefully after this arc he completely does.

The problem is not that Goku does not ditch Vegeta as a rival,quite the opposite actually,he has ditched Vegeta a long time ago.
The problem is that the narrative does not ditch Vegeta as Goku's 'eternal' rival despite Goku clearly not caring,so in the we have a forced rivalry that we need to pretend
that it exists and is being pushed onto us.

The anime is the one that's made it seem like Vegeta isn't a rival anymore. The manga makes it transparent that they're still on par.

I've heard people say that the anime is going to have to start following the manga soon. If that's the case, they'll make Vegeta rivals in the anime again. Just like they adopted the SSG to SSB idea.

Is that actually confirmed? If so, then that's a nice start, though they weren't really rivals at all in Super's anime run so far. If that isn't confirmed, that's all just speculation. The manga doesn't really make that transparent all that often though. It does a better job than the anime does for sure in that regard, but the manga just continues on with how Toriyama did it: Having Goku almost always one-step ahead of Vegeta. The problem with Toei is that they make it so that it feels like Goku is two to three steps ahead of Vegeta.

[Whatever]

And that is the problem with Vegeta, his character is already been exhausted and it is time to move on. It makes sense why Goku is ditching Vegeta has a rival hopefully after this arc he completely does.

The problem is not that Goku does not ditch Vegeta as a rival,quite the opposite actually,he has ditched Vegeta a long time ago.
The problem is that the narrative does not ditch Vegeta as Goku's 'eternal' rival despite Goku clearly not caring,so in the we have a forced rivalry that we need to pretend
that it exists and is being pushed onto us.

The anime is the one that's made it seem like Vegeta isn't a rival anymore. The manga makes it transparent that they're still on par.

I've heard people say that the anime is going to have to start following the manga soon. If that's the case, they'll make Vegeta rivals in the anime again. Just like they adopted the SSG to SSB idea.

What i was saying has nothing to do with how Vegeta compares to Goku power wise,in the manga Goku does not sees Vegeta as a rival(neither in dbz for the most part),the biggest difference is that in the anime its made more obvious since Goku has new rivals to lust over.

Thank you. This is how it really is. It's why I have an issue. I don't have an issue with Vegeta being far inferior to Goku. I have an issue with him being far inferior to Goku but the story expecting me to take him seriously as a rival. Goku hasn't given a single fuck about Vegeta as a rival in ages, but the story continues to promote him as Goku's "eternal rival" when it's a stretch to even call them rivals at this point. Either bother to make Vegeta a legitimate rival, or retire him as a rival. Retiring him from the rival role doesn't mean he needs to lose screen time, it just means that this series shouldn't try to pretend that there's this fierce rivalry between the two but is quick to trash Vegeta to show off how much better Goku is since that's Vegetable patch's primary role in the series: To make Goku look better.

Yeah but the problem with their rivarly is not how strong Vegeta is since Goku is destinated to be in step ahead most of times anyways.
But its their relationship as rivals,as you said Goku has stopped caring about Vegeta as rival in ages when the rivarly has been one sided since dbz.
Retiring him from the rival role would be the best though as you said but that does not mean he will lose screentime since he would stil be the deuteragonist.

Take Piccolo's relationship with Goku for example,excluding Piccolo's reduced role,their interactions and relationship is way better and more organic and only improved after Piccolo killed Goku and thats the part where their rivarly ended.
Vegeta could benefit the same way(again excluding the reduced role).

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Is that actually confirmed? If so, then that's a nice start, though they weren't really rivals at all in Super's anime run so far. If that isn't confirmed, that's all just speculation. The manga doesn't really make that transparent all that often though. It does a better job than the anime does for sure in that regard, but the manga just continues on with how Toriyama did it: Having Goku almost always one-step ahead of Vegeta. The problem with Toei is that they make it so that it feels like Goku is two to three steps ahead of Vegeta.

Considering the Manga is behind... not sure how the anime can "follow it". It is just speculation based off vague comments by Toyo that fans take like the bible.

[Noah]

Has the Goku and Vegeta team up become... boring to anyone else? I feel like it's just become tired and repetitive. It's stop being something special and dynamic and is now just predictable to me.

I share the same feeling, Goku and Vegeta team up was fresh back in the Boo arc/Movie 6 and 12, cause we didn't had this much in the series overrall, now in Super they just overuse them so much, not only fighting together but interactions too

They can't exactly kick out Vegeta from this so there he is, just existing and doing stuff sometimes... His personality even though is made entertaining again, Freeza completely overshadows any need for that this arc...

Too bad that compared to Vegeta, Freeza had done nothing yet in the ToP, I just wonder why.

I think the cons of Vegeta are starting to show & why he's a boring character, Goku is limitless.

Pardon, but no... Goku can also be boring with the way he's being written recently, being one note character that only cares about fighting, failing at basic things (always dropping his guard), and showing little concern to what is happening around him.

How about Piccolo and Vegeta? We've never had them work together? Or Tenshinhan and Vegeta. Gohan and Vegeta? What about Goku and Piccolo, we haven't seen that in a very long time. We've had so many basic team ups that they're not very interesting. Hit and Goku is the closest to an interesting one we've had. I for one have had enough of Gohan and Piccolo, and Goku & Vegeta. We've seen that too much now. It was cool at first, but let's spice things up instead of chaining them down to each other too often.

Exactly! I mean this arc can open so many possibilities but they still keep showing us the same stuff over and over again that I'm starting to think the end game will probably be the most predictable thing ever.

Actually yes it really is. We've seen Goku and Vegeta several damn times in Super.

Three times if we want to count.

I think you miscalculated, mate. Only three times we had Goku and Vegeta interacting in Super?

[Lionel]

Unlike probably a very good portion of the fanbase, I would have little issue with Vegeta being eliminated. I generally don't care for his character and would prefer if the time that's allocated to him were offered to some of the other Universe 7 fighters. In fact, I would even find it acceptable if that time was apportioned to some of the other universes like Jimeze from U2 or Paparoni from Universe 3.

You know if we were to witness a mutual alliance between a collection of universe fighters against one of the top tiers of the tournament and the result somehow ended up being their victory through what this tournament has been promoted to be focused on -- i.e teamwork and strategy -- then my opinion of this tournament would increase several-fold, so long as it's believable and clever. The Tournament of Power has brought together eighty characters, surely one of them has some technique that could enable an above scenario to pan out.

[Totamo]

The problem is not that Goku does not ditch Vegeta as a rival,quite the opposite actually,he has ditched Vegeta a long time ago.
The problem is that the narrative does not ditch Vegeta as Goku's 'eternal' rival despite Goku clearly not caring,so in the we have a forced rivalry that we need to pretend
that it exists and is being pushed onto us.

The anime is the one that's made it seem like Vegeta isn't a rival anymore. The manga makes it transparent that they're still on par.

I've heard people say that the anime is going to have to start following the manga soon. If that's the case, they'll make Vegeta rivals in the anime again. Just like they adopted the SSG to SSB idea.

What i was saying has nothing to do with how Vegeta compares to Goku power wise,in the manga Goku does not sees Vegeta as a rival(neither in dbz for the most part),the biggest difference is that in the anime its made more obvious since Goku has new rivals to lust over.

Thank you. This is how it really is. It's why I have an issue. I don't have an issue with Vegeta being far inferior to Goku. I have an issue with him being far inferior to Goku but the story expecting me to take him seriously as a rival. Goku hasn't given a single fuck about Vegeta as a rival in ages, but the story continues to promote him as Goku's "eternal rival" when it's a stretch to even call them rivals at this point. Either bother to make Vegeta a legitimate rival, or retire him as a rival. Retiring him from the rival role doesn't mean he needs to lose screen time, it just means that this series shouldn't try to pretend that there's this fierce rivalry between the two but is quick to trash Vegeta to show off how much better Goku is since that's Vegetable patch's primary role in the series: To make Goku look better.

Yeah but the problem with their rivarly is not how strong Vegeta is since Goku is destinated to be in step ahead most of times anyways.
But its their relationship as rivals,as you said Goku has stopped caring about Vegeta as rival in ages when the rivarly has been one sided since dbz.
Retiring him from the rival role would be the best though as you said but that does not mean he will lose screentime since he would stil be the deuteragonist.

Take Piccolo's relationship with Goku for example,excluding Piccolo's reduced role,their interactions and relationship is way better and more organic and only improved after Piccolo killed Goku and thats the part where their rivarly ended.
Vegeta could benefit the same way(again excluding the reduced role).

Vegeta will have a reduced role, the moment he stops competing with Goku. You know it and I know it.


The way Toriyama wrote characters back in the original, he would give them traits and qualities, develop them then drop them after they served usefulness.


Thats the main reason people feel super has regressed characters. They aren't suppose to be around anymore in the first place. But GT did that exact thing and so many hated it, me included.


Dragon ball post buu saga has become a monkey paw system. We can't get it all and we won't get it all

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Anyone have a link to the episode livestream?

[ssjprodigy]

VEGETA IS SCREWED LMFAO

[The gr]

I'm not sure what they (Toei, Shueisha) want Vegeta to be this arc. I'm still enjoying Gokû, still enjoy seeing him and Vegeta interacting, but which Vegeta this will be is the question.

I think the cons of Vegeta are starting to show & why he's a boring character, Goku is limitless. Vegeta's been developed in the way he is what he is now. How he's written in the ToP so far is what I expect, otherwise you fall into the trap of completely writing him like a dick he was in the Cell arc (cough cough Toyotaro). Him wanting to be the last one standing is a personal milestone for him to achieve, just because he's accepted Goku being number 1 doesn't mean he isn't gonna stop aiming to beat him (something a number of fans misunderstand, Vegeta admitting was just a step into his development).

How is vegeta a dick in the manga,he is the same as the anime

[Zamasu55]

Tien's out.
Oh god, the ending...

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Lol Tien got trolled AGAIN.

Also Dr. Rota is an idiot.

[ssjprodigy]

vegeta fans get your bible out cause yall need to pray lol