Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

"Gotenks surpassed Vegeta after training in the RoSaT" information comes from the guidebooks, the manga never directly implies it. That probably comes from a notion that Gotenks was still a work-in-progress and not quite up to the task of defeating Boo without refining his abilities before the fight. In my opinion, SS Gotenks is as powerful as Fat Boo or Skinny Boo, while SS3 Gotenks is as powerful as Evil Boo.

As for the Abocado tidbit, if Goten and Trunks felt like, they could transform or fuse during the fight. They have one or two abilities that make Freeza "not exactly a threat" to them. And giving that Tarble knew the brother duo was once worth of the same reputation as the Ginyu Force and he knew they powered-up to Freeza's level, we can probably assume he was aware of whatever they could do. Even SS Goku beating them was predicted.

[Doctor.]

Goku came up with the idea on his own... that doesn't mean Gohan's going to concoct the same exact plan. Vegeta didn't even know what Goku's plan was initially, correct?

He didn't, but this doesn't matter because we're deviating from my original point.

I wasn't trying to prove that you're wrong when you say the base Saiyans are stronger, that's stupid; I was trying to tell you that your logic can be turned against you, since the same logic you used to prove that "Gotenks > Fat Boo" can be used to prove that "Freeza > Saiyans". Getting into this discussion wasn't part of my plan, but apparently this is now happening.

We see two base saiyans hold up against someone stronger than Freeza. What evidence is there for Gotenks being weaker?

Zombie just said he thinks he's weaker because an entry in the Daizenshuu implies he is. I'm not really sure why you're dismissing this an something impossible when one guidebook strongly implies that's not the case. You may believe it's unlikely, I believe it's unlikely, but asserting it as a fact is just wrong.

[Polyphase Avatron]

This is based on basically nothing (except maybe Krillin saying that he was impressed with his strength), but for some reason I keep thinking RoF Jaco is at 13,000.

[Noah]

What may be humans power levels in RoF?

Tien, Krillin... Kamesennin is still at 139 PL ou maybe he improved a little?

[ZombieVito]

What may be humans power levels in RoF?

Tenshinhan, Krillin... Kamesennin is still at 139 PL ou maybe he improved a little?

Kuririn: 540,000
Tenshinhan: 450,000
Master Roshi [Buff form]: 180

[Hugo Boss]

What may be humans power levels in RoF?

They are all below 20,000. Kuririn could be at 10,000, while Roshi is at about 1,000.

[supercat]

What may be humans power levels in RoF?

They are all below 20,000. Kuririn could be at 10,000, while Roshi is at about 1,000.

Why? What makes you say that?

While I can't definitively say where the humans stand in power, I'm pretty confident that they're not that low.. On the low end I'd say Krillin would be at around 200,000 - 500,000, and on the higher end, he'd be sitting somewhere in the low millions -- 1,500,000 - 3,000,000.

[ZombieVito]

Unless Freeza managed to find many mercenaries that had a BP of over a million (I seriously doubt it), the humans can't be that high.

[supercat]

Unless Freeza managed to find many mercenaries that had a BP of over a million (I seriously doubt it), the humans can't be that high.

Well I did say 200,000 - 500,00 on the lower end of that spectrum.

Regardless of where they're at, I find it extremely hard to believe that Krillin and Tien would be weaker than Captain Ginyu, let alone Zarbon and Dodoria.

I was excluding Roshi from all of this by the way.

[Noah]

Could Krillin have power enough to beat Freeza in his 1st Form (before training) in RoF or even before in Boo Arc?

[Lord Beerus]

Could Krillin have power enough to beat Freeza in his 1st Form (before training) in RoF or even before in Boo Arc?

I honestly believe that by the time the Cell Games began, Krillin's BP reached at least over, 1,500,000. So yeah, I believe by the time of ROF, he could defeat First Form Freeza.

[LightBing]

I don't see any human getting to First Form Freeza, only Kurilin if he trained regularly with Lazuli. They didn't keep up with the training methods. If they used the Room of Spirit and Time or sparred with strong people or gravity training, they could get to the millions since we have evidence of them keeping up with the stronger Saiyans and Piccolo minus transformations.

Chronologically:
Karin training = power jump
Kami training = power jump
Kaio training(unlock potential for Kurilin) = power jump
Basic Training = Marginal gains

[Lord Beerus]

I don't see any human getting to First Form Freeza, only Kurilin if he trained regularly with Lazuli. They didn't keep up with the training methods. If they used the Room of Spirit and Time or sparred with strong people or gravity training, they could get to the millions since we have evidence of them keeping up with the stronger Saiyans and Piccolo minus transformations.

Chronologically:
Karin training = power jump
Kami training = power jump
Kaio training(unlock potential for Kurilin) = power jump
Basic Training = Marginal gains

Well, Tien was able to pin down Semi-Perfect Cell continuously. Which would indicate that BP is at least in the low millions region, to pull of such a feat. And considering that Toriyama flat out stated that Krillin is the strongest Earthling, and by virtue stronger than Tien, who is also an Earthing, that would place Krillin's BP, at least during the Cell arc, above Frieza First Form.

[supercat]

I'm honestly skeptical about this whole humans have limits in DBZ concept. Yes, their potential is worlds below Super Saiyans and Super Namekians, but with their power being primarily based on the proper usage of ki, I'm having a hard time believing they've reached their peak. While their physical bodies may be subject to certain limitations, I find it plausible that their ki could take their overall power up to levels that could, to some extent, be more comparable to their alien buddies. I feel the humans have suffered the unfortunate fate of faltering strength partly because of the fact that they decline the incorporation of intense training. Aside from Krillin and Yamcha's complete absence of training, Tien probably doesn't gain much by training alone in the mountains.

In no shape or form am I trying to imply that the humans could surpass their SSJ pals, but I'm somewhat convinced that if they actually leveraged the same kind of training as their stronger allies, they would at least make it pretty evident they've reached levels where we could stop comparing them to weaklings like Dodoria, Ginyu, or even First Form Frieza.

[ZombieVito]

Unless Freeza managed to find many mercenaries that had a BP of over a million (I seriously doubt it), the humans can't be that high.

Well I did say 200,000 - 500,00 on the lower end of that spectrum.

Regardless of where they're at, I find it extremely hard to believe that Krillin and Tenshinhan would be weaker than Captain Ginyu, let alone Zarbon and Dodoria.

I was excluding Roshi from all of this by the way.

200,000 - 500,000 seems the best place to put them now.

[Noah]

Well, Tenshinhan was able to pin down Semi-Perfect Cell continuously. Which would indicate that BP is at least in the low millions region, to pull of such a feat. And considering that Toriyama flat out stated that Krillin is the strongest Earthling, and by virtue stronger than Tenshinhan, who is also an Earthing, that would place Krillin's BP, at least during the Cell arc, above Freeza First Form.

But I think we could say that Kikoho stopping Cell for a brief moment it was merit from the technique not from the user, I mean... Krillin could have sliced Freeza with his Kienzan, that would made he the strongest? Not at all

[Lord Beerus]

Well, Tenshinhan was able to pin down Semi-Perfect Cell continuously. Which would indicate that BP is at least in the low millions region, to pull of such a feat. And considering that Toriyama flat out stated that Krillin is the strongest Earthling, and by virtue stronger than Tenshinhan, who is also an Earthing, that would place Krillin's BP, at least during the Cell arc, above Freeza First Form.

But I think we could say that Kikoho stopping Cell for a brief moment it was merit from the technique not from the user, I mean... Krillin could have sliced Freeza with his Kienzan, that would made he the strongest? Not at all

But the Kikoho only exerts as much power as the body can physically produce. So obviously Tien had immense life force and if he was able to produce enough strength on his Kikoho to stop Cell.

[Polyphase Avatron]

People will probably think these are too high but Rof Krillin could be 50,000,000, Tien could be 45,000,000, and with Kikoho he could be 125,000,000.

[Hugo Boss]

What may be humans power levels in RoF?

They are all below 20,000. Kuririn could be at 10,000, while Roshi is at about 1,000.

Why? What makes you say that?

Because in the last time Kuririn's power was measured he was surpassing 10,000 and the movie implies he is weaker than Dodoria.

Now I'm inclined to give a boost to Roshi. I recal a moment when Freeza attacked one of Namekian villages and his soldiers laughted at powerlevels of 1,000. Perhaps Roshi's improvements could have reached somewhere around 1,500~3,000?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I made a new DB battle power list, more conservative, again, feedback is appreciated.