[spoiler]
snpaa wrote:
FIrst off We have no idea How strong ganzo is (I think that his name) or whatever that green goblin bird character was but we do know that it was significantly stronger then roshi because they stated that in the show, even in his base form ganzo was able to exchange blows with base form goku without being annihilated. Also my example implies that chaiotzu made some massive gains in power just like roshi did within super to the point where he could knock out vegeta that was purposely written incompetently for chaiotzu to win since the will of the writer who's wants a certain result.
And Roshi acknowledges his strength, and tells him it doesn't matter. That doesn't make him unstoppable. Dragonball isn't an RPG where the higher number automatically beats the lower number. A stronger character having to tank a weaker characters attack isn't a rule that must be followed. When it happened it's usually done to show strong the villain is. Ganos isn't that big a deal so he doesn't get that treatment. So even if they bend some rule you want it to follow it's because Dragonball isn't cold hard numbers and facts. It's a work of fiction using literary devices to tell a story. And even yet with the power of those literary devices Roshi still hasn't made the massive jump to Vegeta level. Like your example.
snpaa wrote:Second off roshi was able to make massive power gains and be on par with or stronger then tien - a person who should be lightyears ahead of roshi by now. If we scale it powerwise it is the equivalent of tien reaching ultimate gohan level. It's a massive jump similar to my chaiotzu vs vegeta example unless you want to explain to me how roshi was not to far off from tien using some old official power level guidebook.
No it isn't. That isn't an equivalent at all. Roshi did make a massive jump to Ultimate Gohan levels. Yeah sometimes characters make massive power gains. Remember when Yamacha, Tien, and Krillin and got WAY better gains training with Kami for a year, than Goku who trained with Kami for 3? Goku the Saiyan. Sometimes shit aint fair.
You haven't disproving this image message, tien was shown throughout dragonball and dragon ball z constantly trying to improve himself and surpassing roshi, while roshi eventually gave up to let the younger generation take over. sure you can say there is a bias and that artist cherry picking a few scenes but the general underline message is correct , roshi was shown doing nothing but being a pervert and molesting women , not even showing the slightest hint of wanting to improve himself . Explain to me how this image is wrong with details please.
Because what was shown doesn't matter anymore. Now we're being told Roshi trains in secret. The situation has changed. You don't have to like it, but it doesn't break any rules. Tien is shown to be always training, maybe even more so than most of the characters, yet he is still one of the weaker ones despite it all, while Toriyama tells us that Krillin is still stronger. Again, shit aint fair. But it is how it is. The image isn't wrong per se, but it's unrealiable because the artist can show you whatever they want you to see, for comedic effect no less. You're using a punchline as an argument. Like like how someone would point to a TFS joke as an example of Goku being a bad father.
snpaa wrote:See this is the logic I'm talking about , if chaiozu did some secret training and curb stomp vegeta , why is that wrong but when roshi does it it's acceptable. Chaiotzu posses tricks , magic/telekinesis if you watched og dragonball he's just as capable as roshi albeit a bit dumber since he can barely do basic math last time I checked . Yes vegeta got a power up off screen but the show went out of their way to show you how hard he was training before hand to achieve this, unlike with roshi who barely been on screen and before this has really show any fire in him to want to improve himself. This storytelling is not organic to dragonball you don't just randomly make a charcter jump in power levels with no foreshadowing whatsoever as it comes off as random, undeserved, and unrealistic to the series.
Because Roshi didn't curb stomp vegeta. When he or Roshi does so, or something similar then we can talk about it. But until then it's just a what if and I'm not that interested in arguing what ifs. They can go on all day. The anime may have gone out of it's way to show Vegeta blowing up meteors and getting pissy until he got those beautiful frosted tips. But in the manga he just had it. No explanation. He fucks off, comes back, then Poof! Blonde man. A character getting stronger off screen is nor a new not is it even a bad thing. Not everything needs to be forshadowed. Sometimes things in a story can just be a surprise. Whether you like that surprise or not doesn't matter but it doesn't break any rules. It's not unrealistic, Dragonball is full of random powerups. 90% of the Freeza arc power ups are pulled out of nowhere, give some unquantifiable boost, and allow said character to be just as relevant as necessary to face only the current threat.
Vegeta -> Dodoria
Vegeta -> Zarbon
Goku -> Ginyu Force
Vegeta -> First Form Freeza
Piccolo -> Second Form Freeza
Etc etc. and it's often hailed by fans as one of the best arcs in the history of the series. I think the best course is to watch the arc and decide "did I enjoy myself or not?" Instead of "man that was awesome BUT Vegeta's power level cubed shouldnt be that high. if I reverse the formula making it one side of a triangle and then using the pathagorean theorem to find the exact number it should only be about 4/7ths as high as it was".
Dragon Ball has always always always been random power increases to service the plot backed up by handwave excuses.
Ps. I think this maybe getting further and further off topic and what I was orginally arguing against so I may have to bow out and just agree to disagree. Though that doesn't mean I'll be ignoring your reply. I'll totally still read it.[/spoiler]
I'm putting this in spoilers to avoid having blocks of text taking up a lot of the screen and so people can just ignore it if they want.
