Boo Machine wrote: And Roshi acknowledges his strength, and tells him it doesn't matter. That doesn't make him unstoppable.
You are correct roshi said this , but what point are you trying make here? Roshi is basically saying what he's always said that there always stronger opponets out there even if you think you're the best, which has been the theme in dragonball since the beginning.
Boo Machine wrote:Dragonball isn't an RPG where the higher number automatically beats the lower number. A stronger character having to tank a weaker characters attack isn't a rule that must be followed. When it happened it's usually done to show strong the villain is. Ganos isn't that big a deal so he doesn't get that treatment. So even if they bend some rule you want it to follow it's because Dragonball isn't cold hard numbers and facts. It's a work of fiction using literary devices to tell a story. And even yet with the power of those literary devices Roshi still hasn't made the massive jump to Vegeta level. Like your example.
You say that dragonball is not about higher power level beating lower level's but can you give an example of a lower power level opponent beating a higher level opponent without them using some form of teamwork/interference from an outside force? what criteria do you use to say ganos is not a big deal? Yes I agree it's a work of fiction which is why my example about chaiotzu beating vegeta into a fetal position comes from, any writer can write whatever they want , that doesn't mean that it's organic to the series or should be acceptable. I never said roshi made a jump to vegeta level's, I chaiotzu has the possibility to be written to make a massive jump in power just like roshi did.
I'm gonna have to agree with you let's agree to disagree because I know when a debate is going nowhere, you're moving the goalpost, using strawman arguments and you contradict yourself too the point that I'm not even entirely sure what your position is. It changes when it suits your agenda so you can safely change it again when I back you into a corner. we've both sunk more then enough time into this that we will never get back.Boo Machine wrote:No it isn't. That isn't an equivalent at all. Roshi did make a massive jump to Ultimate Gohan levels. Yeah sometimes characters make massive power gains. Remember when Yamacha, Tien, and Krillin and got WAY better gains training with Kami for a year, than Goku who trained with Kami for 3? Goku the Saiyan. Sometimes shit aint fair. /
Ok I see what you're doing here now , you're making a strawman argument because you can easily refute an argument I didn't make and ignore the argument I did make . If you read the quote correctly I said in terms of power scaling roshi reaching tien level's is like tien reaching ultimate gohan level.
Yamacha , tien , and krillin had better training partners compared to goku who was only training with if at all was most likely mr. popo, they also had an active threat to combat so the training intensity was most likely higher then goku's so it's understandable they were able to make better power gains if you have better training partners to learn from and spar with. If I recall correctly Krillin learns the solar flare because of the time he spent with tien on kami's look out , so they were making each other stronger compared to just training with one person.
Then using this logic their is nothing wrong with a character like chaiotzu making a massive power gain to vegeta level's offscreen . You essentially agree that if the writers write it that way it's fine but at the time say it's exaggerated if I compare it somebody like chaiotzu and vegeta . Explain how this scenario would be exaggerated while at the same it's perfectly fine for the writer to write any character as strong as vegeta. Because what I'm got getting from this statement is that if it's cannon then it's fine.Boo Machine wrote: Because what was shown doesn't matter anymore. Now we're being told Roshi trains in secret. The situation has changed. You don't have to like it, but it doesn't break any rules. Tien is shown to be always training, maybe even more so than most of the characters, yet he is still one of the weaker ones despite it all, while Toriyama tells us that Krillin is still stronger. Again, shit aint fair. But it is how it is. The image isn't wrong per se, but it's unreliable because the artist can show you whatever they want you to see, for comedic effect no less. You're using a punchline as an argument. Like like how someone would point to a TFS joke as an example of Goku being a bad father.
How many time are you going keep using this logical fallacy?Boo Machine wrote:Because Roshi didn't curb stomp vegeta.It's not a what if it's an example of supers current writingr for powering up characters that long been ineffective to the series, if you understand this logic I don't know what to tell you. It seems like you're making a special exception when I throw in vegeta's name but you conveniently forget that by your logic it's fine as well. which is it , is fine or not fine , why make an exception for vegeta when roshi being par with tien is eqaully ludicrous ?Boo Machine wrote:When he or Roshi does so, or something similar then we can talk about it. But until then it's just a what if and I'm not that interested in arguing what ifs. They can go on all day.
Ok now you're trying to make an argument about canonicity while talking about the anime , in the anime it was canon that vegeta trained in the gravity chamber. I don't know if vegeta trained with the gravity chamber in the manga but most likely he did since he was using the same type of ship as goku. Unless the gravity chamber doesn't even exist whatsoever and was completely a toei creation.Boo Machine wrote:The anime may have gone out of it's way to show Vegeta blowing up meteors and getting pissy until he got those beautiful frosted tips. But in the manga he just had it. No explanation. He fucks off, comes back, then Poof! Blonde man. A character getting stronger off screen is nor a new not is it even a bad thing. Not everything needs to be forshadowed. Sometimes things in a story can just be a surprise. Whether you like that surprise or not doesn't matter but it doesn't break any rules. It's not unrealistic, Dragonball is full of random powerups.These example you have given are easily justifiable because the reason given is explain because they have an inherit racial ability that does not conform to the human standards we go by.Boo Machine wrote: 90% of the Freeza arc power ups are pulled out of nowhere, give some unquantifiable boost, and allow said character to be just as relevant as necessary to face only the current threat.
Vegeta -> Dodoria
Vegeta -> Zarbon
Goku -> Ginyu Force
Vegeta -> First Form Freeza
Piccolo -> Second Form Freeza
Boo Machine wrote:Ps. I think this maybe getting further and further off topic and what I was orginally arguing against so I may have to bow out and just agree to disagree. Though that doesn't mean I'll be ignoring your reply. I'll totally still read it.
I'm putting this in spoilers to avoid having blocks of text taking up a lot of the screen and so people can just ignore it if they want.
I wish you a great day . cheers!
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