Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[dbgtFO]

-This is one is hard, Nam had a good fight with Goku but he didn't damaged him much. Only his ultimate take put Goku in a corner. Goku was very easygoing during the fight. Hard to make a parallel but Kuririn is superior in my oppinion. Kame Sennin complimented him and they had a much closer fight than the Nam vs Goku. But feel free to refute the number might be improved upon!

The thing about Krillin vs Jackie Chun, is that Kame-sennin was holding back the entire time. Even though Krillin did spot his high-speed punch, that and the off-guard kick was all he accomplished and in the next scene he was down for the count. Once Kame-sennin had propelled himself back to the ring with his Kamehameha, Krillin was only injuring himself and couldn't see through the afterimage. Nam on the other hand did manage to see through Goku's afterimage and counter-attack at the same time.
I just always got the impression Nam was supposed to be stronger than Krillin based on that.

- Goku fought better/smarter but there had to be a small power advantage to Piccolo he tanked a Kamehameha and used some draining attacks like that exploding wave attack. Could you provided me with a quote?

Sure here's Goku's quote:

Chapter: 189, P5.2, P6.1
Piccolo: “You think you can win? There’s no way you can…! I’ve…I’ve…leveled up so much that I’m now many times stronger than I was when I fought you 3 years ago…!”
Goku: “Well then, I’ve gotten just a little bit stronger than even that.”

- I'm quite happy with this number x40 feels correct, taking into account the events and Freeza's percentage talk.

It's just the whole idea of Goku and Freeza's powers being so drastically affected by their injuries. It's logical, sure, but eh.. I don't know.

[LightBing]

The thing about Krillin vs Jackie Chun, is that Kame-sennin was holding back the entire time. Even though Krillin did spot his high-speed punch, that and the off-guard kick was all he accomplished and in the next scene he was down for the count. Once Kame-sennin had propelled himself back to the ring with his Kamehameha, Krillin was only injuring himself and couldn't see through the afterimage. Nam on the other hand did manage to see through Goku's afterimage and counter-attack at the same time.
I just always got the impression Nam was supposed to be stronger than Krillin based on that.

I re-read both fight's and decided to put Nam at 32 and Kuririn at 34. Kuririn not seeing the afterimage is a case of clouded mind, he was desperate and attacking angrily; Kame Sennin himself points this out. There's nothing point out who of the two is stronger. I put Kuririn because he trained under the great Kame Sennin.

Sure here's Goku's quote:
Chapter: 189, P5.2, P6.1
Piccolo: “You think you can win? There’s no way you can…! I’ve…I’ve…leveled up so much that I’m now many times stronger than I was when I fought you 3 years ago…!”
Goku: “Well then, I’ve gotten just a little bit stronger than even that.”

That seems like the usual batter between opponents, I don't take it at face value. Piccolo's feats and the two advantage instances is what makes me give him a small battle advantage. And one that I just remembered, Piccolo grew an arm that's said to use quite a bit of ki.Then there's these errors of judgment from Goku:

Chapter: 185, P14.3
Context: Goku and everyone else assumed the Super Kamehameha would kill Piccolo if fired, but Piccolo survived getting hit with it.
Goku: “Wh-what kind of guy is he? He withstood it!”

Context: following Piccolo's big attack, which Goku survives
Goku: “You got no chance of winnin’ now! You probably just used up all the ki you had remaining.”

Goku after beating Piccolo then get's that mouth blast through the shoulder.

[Saiga]

Belated response, but thanks for the input. Was trying to do a minimalist approach to see if it would be possible to interpret things where Gohan could keep his power up without completely overshadowing Goku in combat. Being around twice as strong isn't unworkable, I think.

[Noah]

Hello folks, I want to complete my own Power Level list (DB/Z/GT, Movies, Specials and OVAs) but I need to fix a lot of things, could you guys help me to get in a consensus?

I consider Daizenshuu last confirmed power levels (100% FP Freeza: 120,000,000 and SSJ Goku: 150,000,000), but also have some V-Jump confirmed power levels (FF Cooler: 470,000,00 and LSSJ Broly 1,400,000,000) should I consider these power levels or they are too overly exagerated? Also for Goku to back to Earth as SSJ with 150,000,000 could defeat Cooler with 470,000,000 feels unreal.

One issue that I have that what could be Goten and Kid Trunks (Post and Pre RoSaT) power levels in Boo Arc, I put them as:

Spoiler:

Goten (Pre-RoSaT): 4,000,000
Super Saiyan: 200,000,000

Kid Trunks (Pre-RoSaT): 5,500,000
Super Saiyan: 275,000,000

Goten (Post-RoSaT): 7,500,000
Super Saiyan: 375,000,000

Kid Trunks (Post-RoSaT): 8,000,000
Super Saiyan: 400,000,000

Also for Androids No. 17 and No. 18 and their future counterparts:

Spoiler:

Future Android 17: 225,000,000
Future Android 18: 220,000,000

Android 17: 285,000,000
Android 18: 280,000,000

I'm open for suggestions about these numbers

[Saiga]

Trying to fit both Cooler and Broli's power levels in the main timeline is iffy because they'd require two different rates of scaling. The first has really high scaling, with Goku more than tripling his battle power from returning from Yardrat. The second requires more modest scaling, considering that the Android arcs have so many jumps in power on top of Goku more than doubling his power in the RoSaT. They don't work together.

Unless you're putting the movies in sepearate lists that don't follow the events or logic of the main series in which case knock yourself out.

I think the gap between Goten and Trunks is too high, it is really noticeable as Super Saiyans. Other than that, they should individually be stronger than 18, and at a level where they can spar with the adult Saiyans as they did.

[LightBing]

Hello folks, I want to complete my own Power Level list (DB/Z/GT, Movies, Specials and OVAs) but I need to fix a lot of things, could you guys help me to get in a consensus?

I consider Daizenshuu last confirmed power levels (100% FP Freeza: 120,000,000 and SSJ Goku: 150,000,000), but also have some V-Jump confirmed power levels (FF Cooler: 470,000,00 and LSSJ Broly 1,400,000,000) should I consider these power levels or they are too overly exagerated? Also for Goku to back to Earth as SSJ with 150,000,000 could defeat Cooler with 470,000,000 feels unreal.

I would advise not to follow any of these "official numbers", many of the times you'll be forced to accommodate the logic, which is a redundant endeavor. Do it exclusively from your assessment, it will always end up better and you, with a less doubtful mind.

One issue that I have that what could be Goten and Kid Trunks (Post and Pre RoSaT) power levels in Boo Arc, I put them as:

Spoiler:

Goten (Pre-RoSaT): 4,000,000
Super Saiyan: 200,000,000

Kid Trunks (Pre-RoSaT): 5,500,000
Super Saiyan: 275,000,000

Goten (Post-RoSaT): 7,500,000
Super Saiyan: 375,000,000

Kid Trunks (Post-RoSaT): 8,000,000
Super Saiyan: 400,000,000

Also for Androids No. 17 and No. 18 and their future counterparts:

Spoiler:

Future Android 17: 225,000,000
Future Android 18: 220,000,000

Android 17: 285,000,000
Android 18: 280,000,000

I'm open for suggestions about these numbers

For comparison here's my numbers based only on the manga. My SSJ multiplier is x40 base + (mastery)

Trunks - 1.250.000
Super Saiyan - 50.000.000 + 450.000.000 = 500.000.000
Post RoSaT - 1.950.000
Super Saiyan - 78.000.000 + 600.000.000 = 678.000.000
Goten - 1.100.000
Super Saiyan - 44.000.000 + 440.000.000 = 484.000.000
Post RoSaT - 1.950.000
Super Saiyan - 78.000.000 + 600.000.000 = 678.000.000

# 17 - 175.500.000
# 18 - 170.500.000

For their counterparts,I don't have the numbers but at 140.000.000 will be where I put them.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

One issue that I have that what could be Goten and Kid Trunks (Post and Pre RoSaT) power levels in Boo Arc, I put them as:

Spoiler:

Goten (Pre-RoSaT): 4,000,000
Super Saiyan: 200,000,000

Kid Trunks (Pre-RoSaT): 5,500,000
Super Saiyan: 275,000,000

Goten (Post-RoSaT): 7,500,000
Super Saiyan: 375,000,000

Kid Trunks (Post-RoSaT): 8,000,000
Super Saiyan: 400,000,000

Why weaker than Android #18 pre-RoSaT? Kid Trunks' suppressed blast made her worry for her own life. Trunks said if his blast is done appropriately it won't kill her.

Goten was also on par with Gohan in their sparring match, and Trunks landed a hit on Vegeta's face.

[Noah]

Trying to fit both Cooler and Broli's power levels in the main timeline is iffy because they'd require two different rates of scaling. The first has really high scaling, with Goku more than tripling his battle power from returning from Yardrat. The second requires more modest scaling, considering that the Android arcs have so many jumps in power on top of Goku more than doubling his power in the RoSaT. They don't work together.

Unless you're putting the movies in sepearate lists that don't follow the events or logic of the main series in which case knock yourself out.

I think the gap between Goten and Trunks is too high, it is really noticeable as Super Saiyans. Other than that, they should individually be stronger than 18, and at a level where they can spar with the adult Saiyans as they did.

Well I'm trying to do the main series along with Movies, OVAs and Special power levels so I want them to match, but I think I may probably ignore V-Jump ones.

You recomend Goten and Trunks to have more similiar power levels?

I would advise not to follow any of these "official numbers", many of the times you'll be forced to accommodate the logic, which is a redundant endeavor. Do it exclusively from your assessment, it will always end up better and you, with a less doubtful mind.

I think I'll just ignore V-Jump, and still use Daizenshuu (50x multiplier), but I know that it becomes something exaggerated proceeding by this point.

Why weaker than Android #18 pre-RoSaT? Kid Trunks' suppressed blast made her worry for her own life. Trunks said if his blast is done appropriately it won't kill her.

Goten was also on par with Gohan in their sparring match, and Trunks landed a hit on Vegeta's face.

I always though they couldn't beat her individually before RoSat, it's kinda hard to me think that they born that strong, but it's just my point of view that needs to be adapted to straight facts. So you think that both Goten and Trunks are somewhat little inferior to Gohan and Vegeta in SSJ?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I always though they couldn't beat her individually before RoSat, it's kinda hard to me think that they born that strong, but it's just my point of view that needs to be adapted to straight facts. So you think that both Goten and Trunks are somewhat little inferior to Gohan and Vegeta in SSJ?

She felt threatened for her own life by Kid Trunks' suppressed Ki blast.

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P12.4, P13.1
Context: after Trunks’ ki blast explodes
No.18: “Yo-you’ve got to be kidding…That energy bullet had absolutely incredible speed and destructive power…Co-could it be that those squirts have outrageous power?…This is dangerous! I’ve got to settle this fight soon!”

In my opinion, they're essentially on par with Gohan, but noticeably behind Vegeta, since the former was trash in the latter's eyes. Not leaps and bounds behind though, not like a one-shot gap or anything.

[Alex9196]

here is my list of the whole z series. but let me say first off that i basically overtook an allready existing list that i pretty much agreed on and just changed it up just a bit for things i didnt really agree on. if you want to see the original list i can send u a link.

radditz shows up

piccolo 408
goku 416
gohan 1
gohan angry 1307
radditz 1500

nappa and vegeta show up

gohan 1500
gohan oozaru 15.000
piccolo 2500
krillin 1500
chao zu 1000
yamcha 1300
tenshinhan 1800
yajirobe 250
goku 8100

saibaimen 1200
nappa 4000
vegeta 18000
vegeta oozaru 180.000

namek arrival

vegeta (zenkai from earth) 25.000
kiwi 18.000
dodoria 20.000
zarbon 23.000
zarbon transformed 30.000
vegeta (zenkai from zarbon) 35.000
namekians 3.000
freeza soldiers 500
krillin (guru unlocked) 12.000
gohan (guru unlocked) 15.000

ginyu force shows up

guldo 10.000
jeice 43.000
burta 44.000
rikuum 45.000
ginyu 120.000
ginyu (gokus body) 23.000
vegeta (zenkai from rikuum) 60.000
goku 180.000
gohan (zenkai from rikuum) 20.000
nail 42.000
freeza 1 form 530.000

vs freeza

freeza 2 form 1.060.000
freeza 3 form 2.120.000
freeza final 4.240.000
piccolo 1.400.000
vegeta (zenkai from krillin) 2.000.000

goku (zenkai from ginyu) 3.000.000
goku ssj 150.000.000

freeza 100% 120.000.000

trunks shows up

ssj trunks 170.000.000
ssj goku 200.000.000

mecha freeza 6.000.000 ( if he would have gotten time to go max 170.000.000)
king cold 2 form 1.000.000

androids show up

yamcha 150.000
tenshinhan 300.000
krillin 275.000
piccolo 100.000.000
gohan 2.000.000
ssj vegeta 230.000.000
ssj trunks 220.000.000

dr gero 90.000.000
c19 80.000.000
c18 290.000.000
c17 300.000.000

cell shows up

cell 1 form 270.000.000
piccolo fused 310.000.000
cell (humans absorbed) 390.000.000
c16 380.000.000
cell 2 form 690.000.000
vegeta ssj 600.000.000
trunks ssj 580.000.000
vegeta ussj 850.000.000
trunks ussj 830.000.000
perfect cell 980.000.000
trunks uussj 1.200.000.000

cell games

goku ssj 4.000.000.000
cell max power 4.500.000.000
gohan ssj 4.200.000.000
cell jr. 2.200.000.000
vegeta ssj 2.000.000.000
trunks ssj 1.800.000.000
gohan ssj3 8.400.000.000
cell zenkai boost 9.000.000.000

buu saga

ssj2 gohan 7.000.000.000
dabura 8.000.000.000
ssj2 goku 10.000.000.000
majin vegeta 10.000.000.000
fat buu 23.000.000.000
goku ssj3 30.000.000.000 (max would be 40.000.000.000)
evil buu 29.000.000.000
super buu 52.000.000.000
goten ssj 270.000.000
trunks ssj 285.000.000
gotenks ssj3 54.000.000.000
piccolo 4.000.000.000
buutenks 110.000.000.000
gohan mystic 70.000.000.000
buucolo 56.000.000.000
buuhan 126.000.000.000
ssj vegetto 476.000.000.000
kid buu 29.000.000.000
ssj3 goku 30.000.000.000
ssj2 vegeta 8.500.000.000

[Polyphase Avatron]

So I guess no one cares to comment on my RoF power levels...

[dbgtFO]

here is my list of the whole z series. but let me say first off that i basically overtook an allready existing list that i pretty much agreed on and just changed it up just a bit for things i didnt really agree on. if you want to see the original list i can send u a link.

Yeah, it's this list isn't it?

namek arrival

vegeta (zenkai from earth) 25.000

It should actually be 1,000 less

perfect cell 980.000.000
trunks uussj 1.200.000.000

I recall that list putting Trunks below Cell here, so it seems you put him appropiately above him, like it should be.

For comparison here's my numbers based only on the manga. My SSJ multiplier is x40 base + (mastery)

Trunks - 1.250.000
Super Saiyan - 50.000.000 + 450.000.000 = 500.000.000
Post RoSaT - 1.950.000
Super Saiyan - 78.000.000 + 600.000.000 = 678.000.000
Goten - 1.100.000
Super Saiyan - 44.000.000 + 440.000.000 = 484.000.000
Post RoSaT - 1.950.000
Super Saiyan - 78.000.000 + 600.000.000 = 678.000.000

Have you put numbers for the Buu arc up yet? I'd like to see, where you'd put the characters.

[Alex9196]

yeah thats the list, do you also have one dbgtFO?

[dbgtFO]

yeah thats the list, do you also have one dbgtFO?

I have one in my signature.

[Alex9196]

funny i didnt notice that. i dont really read peoples signatures since most of them are random stuff

[LightBing]

In my opinion, they're essentially on par with Gohan, but noticeably behind Vegeta, since the former was trash in the latter's eyes. Not leaps and bounds behind though, not like a one-shot gap or anything.

That's too high. Goten didn't even once touched Gohan during their sparring session and Trunks only brazed Vegeta's face.They're above #18 but still well below the other Saiyans.

nappa and vegeta show up

yajirobe 250

Seems to low.

namek arrival

vegeta (zenkai from zarbon) 35.000

I think it's too big of a zenkai; he was close to Zarbon and had to use a surprise attack to gain the upper hand.

trunks shows up

king cold 2 form 1.000.000

Why do you think this?

So I guess no one cares to comment on my RoF power levels...

Haven't seen the movie yet. Think a lot of people haven't as well.

Have you put numbers for the Buu arc up yet? I'd like to see, where you'd put the characters.

I'm still making them. Base Gotenks is giving me headaches.

[Alex9196]

king cold is very hard to guess i think. i mean you never saw what he can do since he was wiped out with ease by trunks. i guessed 1.000.000 because freeza also had around a million in his second form.

about vegeta, yeah its probably a bit to high.

yarirobe seems fine to me. he didnt do a thing against the nappa and he only cut of vegetas tail. rememper puar was able to cut off oozaru gokus tail so you dont have to be strong to do it. and also as he was shown training, he was mainly eating and didnt really care.

and even after a year of preparation i cant imagine that he could beat goku or piccolo when they were up against radditz.

[Noah]

I'm trying to do MOVIE 5 BP list:

Spoiler:

MOVIE 5 - COOLER'S REVENGE

Neizu: 163,000
Krillin: 75,000
Doore: 185,000
Gohan: 1,500,000
Goku: 3,150,000
Salza: 190,000
Piccolo: 1,800,000
Cooler: 125,000,000 (?)
Goku (Zenkai After eating a Senzu Bean): 6,550,000 (?)
Goku (Kaioken x20): 131,000,000 (?)
Cooler (Final Form): 300,000,000 (?)
Goku (Super Saiyan): 327,500,000 (?)

Is that list okay? What else could I change?

[Alex9196]

if the movie 5 list is true than the "cooler force" would destroy the ginyu force.

also i read your signature noah. i dont agree that you have to be a child or have a childish side in you to enjoy db.
i am sick of people labering it as a kids show. everyone can watch it.

also in my opinion a kids show is a show aimed purely for children and no adult can enjoy it like dora, spongebob and stuff of that sort.

dbz is funny and thats good, but i think everyone understands the humor and can laugh about it. and maybe its not the show with a lot of dark moments but that doesnt have to be in my opinion. not every "adult" series has to be dark.

[LightBing]

king cold is very hard to guess i think. i mean you never saw what he can do since he was wiped out with ease by trunks. i guessed 1.000.000 because freeza also had around a million in his second form.

about vegeta, yeah its probably a bit to high.

yarirobe seems fine to me. he didnt do a thing against the nappa and he only cut of vegetas tail. rememper puar was able to cut off oozaru gokus tail so you dont have to be strong to do it. and also as he was shown training, he was mainly eating and didnt really care.

and even after a year of preparation i cant imagine that he could beat goku or piccolo when they were up against radditz.

It's is said that Yajirobe has surpassed Kami, together with the rest of the Earthlings during their training before the Saiyans. Tien was at 250 at the time of Raditz. So at the very least he should be above 300 (where I have Kami) but like you said he was lazy and only eat, so weaker than the rest of the humans. I have him at 920, he did get a beating from a weakened Vegeta and didn't even had to be hospitalized.