Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Insertclevername wrote:If Mirai Gohan alone (with one arm no less) could kind of hold them off
Uh...no he couldn't. He was less than half as strong as #17 alone.
In his last fight with them, he does kind of hold them off. He ends up dying, sure, but he isn't completely obliterated the whole way through. So...umm...emphasis on kinda.
And isn't that remark about using "half our strength" referring to the first fight with the carnival?
And it should be worth noting that I'm using the Anime special for what I'm basing my fight on. So that's probably where the confusion is. :/
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
Well, depending on how much stronger Gohan got since that last time, there's a chance that something like the special's embellished fight could have happened.
But either way, if the Androids are using their full power, the outcome of the fight doesn't change. The three Super Saiyans are most likely all around half the Androids' power or so, maybe a LITTLE higher, but their strength in numbers isn't going to be enough against a pair of enemies with infinite energy.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Personally, I don't believe the present Androids are actually stronger (and the future Androids just held back on Trunks since he was their last toy left) so all three Super Saiyans get horribly massacred.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Insertclevername wrote:Mirai Trunks (When he killed Freeza), Mirai Gohan (with both arms), and Gokuu (when he arrived home from Yardrat) [all SSJ] vs. #17 & #18 (Alt. timeline) .
I think the 3 Saiyans can pull it off. If Mirai Gohan alone (with one arm no less) could kind of hold them off, then I think the combined efforts of all three of them could clutch a win.
Add Vegeta and give Goku 3 years of training. Then the Saiyans could eek out a win.
Vegetto SSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 no chance either I think. Why I say this? Because Gogeta SSJ4 are two SSJ4 and fight ( played ) with Omega Shenron fused with the other 6 Dragons. Omega Shenron fused is 10 times stronger than Kakarotto SSJ4 if I'm not mistaken.
mysticboy wrote:Perfect Cell (absorb Hellfighter 17 and Hellfighter 18) vs. Syn Shenron?
Do you mean Perfect Cell plus Hell-Fighter #17 & hypothetical Hell-Fighter #18, or the Hell-Fighter ones instead of the normal ones? Either way, Cell loses. I don't remember Hell-Fighter #17 having any feat that would make him stronger than the normal #17, so I guess they are equals.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
mysticboy wrote:Perfect Cell (absorb Hellfighter 17 and Hellfighter 18) vs. Syn Shenron?
Do you mean Perfect Cell plus Hell-Fighter #17 & hypothetical Hell-Fighter #18, or the Hell-Fighter ones instead of the normal ones? Either way, Cell loses. I don't remember Hell-Fighter #17 having any feat that would make him stronger than the normal #17, so I guess they are equals.
Helfighters instead of normal ones.
I think HF 17 was a lot stronger than normal 17. Otherwise Trunks would've easily curb-stomped him, and Super 17 would've been a fly. Hell, HF 17 was probably as strong as Baby.
Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:Namek Genki Dama vs. SSJ Namek Gokuu.
Wouldn't SSJ Goku win since Freeza at half strength could survive the Namek Genki-Dama?
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
mysticboy wrote:Otherwise Trunks would've easily curb-stomped him
Trunks got his ass kicked from the normal #17, and that was base Trunks. Trunks didn't get the chance to transform into a Super Saiyan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Super #13 is at most as strong as #16, IMO, so Bojack wins.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
