"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Simere]

In order to keep my newfound appreciation for Freeza intact, I'm going to hope this betrayal in 108 is just a play on his part. Maybe Frost keeps the jar on his person instead of throwing it out, and it's a convoluted plan to snatch it from him.

[Totamo]

Spirit bombs can be deflected one of two ways:

1) pure of heart ala Gohan
2) strong enough like Buu

Either way this seems like a really bad idea to specifically use this technique on Jiren considering the time it takes, not sure where he would readily draw the energy at this point plus it may not even be able to damage his target at all anyway...

Wait, Kid Buu was pure of heart and was also overpowered so how did it work on him.

He's pure evil. The perfect candidate to be obliterated by the blast. IIRC, he used his own ki to deflect it (i.e. generated wind through his palms) and was far stronger than Goku until Goku got his energy back.

Pure of heart is pure evil. Thats why Vegeta got super saiyan remember?

[Totamo]

So Gohan is gonna beat the uninvested character, and then we're gonna have Gohan vs Freeza and Frost? I hope Vegeta joins in as we don't get the Gohan and Vegeta team up often, and Vegeta has a score to settle. Also pretty sure Golden Freeza can beat Ultimate Gohan, but I still want to see Golden Freeza vs Ultimate Gohan anyways.

By the Univested Character you likely mean Jimeze from U2. While their as a Good Point that why one may not be invested in him, Others Like Me are and have been Enjoying Jimeze Allot, but that is not the point here, I found on Youtube translations of this already it seems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cpoFYsTLRc

I read a translations of this already and it is hared to tell if it is Frieza that Saves Gohan or Gohan finally gets the an opening on Jimeze. However it also said in the Translation Just as "It looks like he he's defeated Jimeze, Frieza Goes Traitor". So it looks like he was about to defeat Jimeze but sounds like he gives up and goes Traitor with Frost.

So what this means of Jimeze I cannot say, but seems to be he was close to being beat but was not. We have to wait and see.

Has nothing to do with power. Jimeze can be blue level for all I care, he's still less than even Botamo is as a character and name. When one note GT characters are more interesting, something ain't right.

So Frieza and Frost supposedly turn traitor but their universes both have 8 fighters left going into the special. That sounds peculiar.

Yup, although it's only one episode before 109, so anything could happen.

Frieza better not be getting screwed over for no reason. Not without at least using his golden form first.

Hopefully there is more to it, because it makes Freeza look like a complete moron if he's actually turning traitor.

Freeza's hatred has turned him into an idiot multiple times.

[perucho1990]

Has nothing to do with power. Jimeze can be blue level for all I care, he's still less than even Botamo is as a character and name. When one note GT characters are more interesting, something ain't right.



Hopefully there is more to it, because it makes Freeza look like a complete moron if he's actually turning traitor.

Like who? Name them please. Only Ledgic was interesting.

I agree that Freeza is looking like a fool for revealing himself as a traitor BEFORE hitting the climax, its looking like he about to be trolled. There has to be some kind of plot-twist if the arc is really ending by November.

For the looks of it, Jiren is going to eliminate a good chunk of people during the Special.

[Jigurashi]

Has nothing to do with power. Jimeze can be blue level for all I care, he's still less than even Botamo is as a character and name. When one note GT characters are more interesting, something ain't right.



Hopefully there is more to it, because it makes Freeza look like a complete moron if he's actually turning traitor.

Like who? Name them please. Only Ledgic was interesting.

I agree that Freeza is looking like a fool for revealing himself as a traitor BEFORE hitting the climax, its looking like he about to be trolled. There has to be some kind of plot-twist if the arc is really ending by November.

For the looks of it, Jiren is going to eliminate a good chunk of people during the Special.

Just curious, what gave you that impression? Everything we know about the special only involves him overwhelming everyone with his unthinkably colossal ki, but has him actually fighting (and likely stomping) Goku. Nothing there really implies he starts bodying several characters, though I wouldn't be surprised if he does body a few characters.

[CJStriker_CBR]

So Gohan is gonna beat the uninvested character, and then we're gonna have Gohan vs Freeza and Frost? I hope Vegeta joins in as we don't get the Gohan and Vegeta team up often, and Vegeta has a score to settle. Also pretty sure Golden Freeza can beat Ultimate Gohan, but I still want to see Golden Freeza vs Ultimate Gohan anyways.

By the Univested Character you likely mean Jimeze from U2. While their as a Good Point that why one may not be invested in him, Others Like Me are and have been Enjoying Jimeze Allot, but that is not the point here, I found on Youtube translations of this already it seems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cpoFYsTLRc

I read a translations of this already and it is hared to tell if it is Frieza that Saves Gohan or Gohan finally gets the an opening on Jimeze. However it also said in the Translation Just as "It looks like he he's defeated Jimeze, Frieza Goes Traitor". So it looks like he was about to defeat Jimeze but sounds like he gives up and goes Traitor with Frost.

So what this means of Jimeze I cannot say, but seems to be he was close to being beat but was not. We have to wait and see.

Has nothing to do with power. Jimeze can be blue level for all I care, he's still less than even Botamo is as a character and name. When one note GT characters are more interesting, something ain't right.

So Frieza and Frost supposedly turn traitor but their universes both have 8 fighters left going into the special. That sounds peculiar.

Yup, although it's only one episode before 109, so anything could happen.

Frieza better not be getting screwed over for no reason. Not without at least using his golden form first.

Hopefully there is more to it, because it makes Freeza look like a complete moron if he's actually turning traitor.

That is the Problem however, you only have seen him for about a min of Screen-time while other like Botamo has had SO MUCH Screentime, I really is not a Fair way to judge a character negatively just cause of 1 mins of screen-time. Honestly character development takes time and patience and that is what fans should have. If you not interested in a character that is ok, but it is not correct to put a character down this early, he needs time to develop.

But in the end It really comes down to to each their own, if you don't care for him that is fine, ME I Really Like Jimeze by just what I have seen of him so far and want to see more to develop more of a true fandom for him!

[perucho1990]

Just curious, what gave you that impression? Everything we know about the special only involves him overwhelming everyone with his unthinkably colossal ki, but has him actually fighting (and likely stomping) Goku. Nothing there really implies he starts bodying several characters, though I wouldn't be surprised if he does body a few characters.

The first batch of spoilers mentioned that Jirens ki overwhelms Goku and the rest of the fighters. Some of them mightbe got eliminated by Jiren imo.

[Jigurashi]

Just curious, what gave you that impression? Everything we know about the special only involves him overwhelming everyone with his unthinkably colossal ki, but has him actually fighting (and likely stomping) Goku. Nothing there really implies he starts bodying several characters, though I wouldn't be surprised if he does body a few characters.

The first batch of spoilers mentioned that Jirens ki overwhelms Goku and the rest of the fighters. Some of them mightbe got eliminated by Jiren imo.

Fair enough. A reasonable guess.

[alakazam^]

Wouldn't be the first thing Super fucked up among countless others. And even then it's a jump to say it did yet as we've yet to see how this will be handled.

Gohan had to aim it at Vegeta as it missed. The Genki Dama is not a sure fire it hits everything it's locked onto, as seen when Krillin missed. So Gohan had to bounce it back so it could go after Vegeta again. I'm not even saying it can't be used on Jiren, I'm saying it can't be used on him if he's pure of heart. Being good doesn't mean you're immune to the Genki Dama. Kinda like with Kintoun and the Devilmite Beam. Being good isn't enough to ride the cloud, nor survive that attack. You need to be pure of heart. There's a big difference between just being good, and being pure of heart.

Jiren can still be a good person, but not pure of heart. They're not mutually exclusive together. So what if 20x Kaioken isn't enough. It wasn't enough for Freeza and the Genki Dama was still the more powerful option above a full power Kaioken x20 Kamehameha.

Sure, Super makes no sense whatsoever, they walk with their hands and talk through their bums I'd rather think a little than default to "Toriyama forgot X" and "Toei hates Y" kind of conclusions.

The anime extended those parts. In the manga, Vegeeta jumped, there were a couple panels of "Oh, no!! It missed! reactions then it was already in Gohan's face, then Goku mindtalked with him and he bounced it back. The anime kinda draged it showing Gohan was in danger. Granted, one could have the same impression in the manga although it was all very brief. I can't say if Gohan aimed it or it was just a lucky reflex. He did, anyway, but was pushed back by the force of it so I can't imagine he wouldn't be damaged had he been hit.

With Boo, the anime had him kick the Genkidama and almost hit Goku while in the manga, he just hold his ground before Goku regaining his strength. Sure, he didn't bounce it back but he also wasn't overwhelmed by it by default.

Goku said the Genkidama could be bounced back if one didn't have evil ki, which Gohan doesn't but Boo himself is nothing but, and he hold his own. Besides, in all three cases, Goku had to gather the right amount of energy otherwise it wouldn't finish the job. This tells us the Genkidama has no special properties besides the way it is formed, since it's not enough to defeat an enemy if it doesn't have enough power. It has nothing to do with pureness of heart or being good.

But let's assume the Genkidama can't be used on people pure of heart and Geran is one of them. Goku shoots it at him, what happens next? Does it disintegrate? Does it pass through him? Aren't blocks and planets "pure"? Because it apparently didn't care before destroying them.

Exactly, a 20x Kaiouken won't be enough so the Genkidama has to surpass it in power to defeat Geran, right? This downright tell us that the technique in itself does not destroy anything, be it good or evil opponents.

[dbzfan7]

Has nothing to do with power. Jimeze can be blue level for all I care, he's still less than even Botamo is as a character and name. When one note GT characters are more interesting, something ain't right.



Hopefully there is more to it, because it makes Freeza look like a complete moron if he's actually turning traitor.

Like who? Name them please. Only Ledgic was interesting.

I agree that Freeza is looking like a fool for revealing himself as a traitor BEFORE hitting the climax, its looking like he about to be trolled. There has to be some kind of plot-twist if the arc is really ending by November.

For the looks of it, Jiren is going to eliminate a good chunk of people during the Special.

The fucking boring Yardrat? Easy. Doltaki being a total fucking creeper is more interesting. A character that disgustingly creepy is not something we often have in this show. His obsessions and weirdness is worse than even Roshi. The Para Para brothers are more interesting and goofy with how they're pathetic losers with a surprisingly effective gimmick, their bond together, and how they aren't just egomanical villains who backstab each other like other one note villains do. About on par with boring Rildo I'd guess. The Shadow dragons aside from the electric one all have more interesting one note blandness gimmicks to them. And that's just a handful of them. There's nothing interesting about the Yardrat beyond "Hey remember where Goku learned that one trick."

I'm sure it's not that simple. I can't imagine Freeza being stupid enough to ruin his chances of survival. His universe goes, so does he by the rules.

Well probably considering that's the best way to demonstrate his power on a basic level.

That is the Problem however, you only have seen him for about a min of Screen-time while other like Botamo has had SO MUCH Screentime, I really is not a Fair way to judge a character negatively just cause of 1 mins of screen-time. Honestly character development takes time and patience and that is what fans should have. If you not interested in a character that is ok, but it is not correct to put a character down this early, he needs time to develop.

But in the end It really comes down to to each their own, if you don't care for him that is fine, ME I Really Like Jimeze by just what I have seen of him so far and want to see more to develop more of a true fandom for him!

The thing is Botama does NOT actually have a lot of character. My point with him is he's had plenty of screen time, and he's still pretty bland anyways. So someone with far less screen time, and nothing going for him is unlikely to be anything more than an obstacle. Just like the last person Gohan fought who was just an obstacle, that they tried to make important by cheaply throwing in a family there's no reason to care about.

True. Not really sure how a character who's biggest thing going for him is just being a member of the race that taught Goku that one move is gonna evolve to something special. Especially when 9/10 times in the tournament, obstacle characters tend to share the same personality and traits...such as cocky asshole who laughs like a villain whether they are a villain or not, easily angered when out classed, and then usually is promptly eliminated by the end. The 1/10 being people like the real characters, or hyped characters like Ribriane.

Wouldn't be the first thing Super fucked up among countless others. And even then it's a jump to say it did yet as we've yet to see how this will be handled.

Gohan had to aim it at Vegeta as it missed. The Genki Dama is not a sure fire it hits everything it's locked onto, as seen when Krillin missed. So Gohan had to bounce it back so it could go after Vegeta again. I'm not even saying it can't be used on Jiren, I'm saying it can't be used on him if he's pure of heart. Being good doesn't mean you're immune to the Genki Dama. Kinda like with Kintoun and the Devilmite Beam. Being good isn't enough to ride the cloud, nor survive that attack. You need to be pure of heart. There's a big difference between just being good, and being pure of heart.

Jiren can still be a good person, but not pure of heart. They're not mutually exclusive together. So what if 20x Kaioken isn't enough. It wasn't enough for Freeza and the Genki Dama was still the more powerful option above a full power Kaioken x20 Kamehameha.

Sure, Super makes no sense whatsoever, they walk with their hands and talk through their bums I'd rather think a little than default to "Toriyama forgot X" and "Toei hates Y" kind of conclusions.

The anime extended those parts. In the manga, Vegeeta jumped, there were a couple panels of "Oh, no!! It missed! reactions then it was already in Gohan's face, then Goku mindtalked with him and he bounced it back. The anime kinda draged it showing Gohan was in danger. Granted, one could have the same impression in the manga although it was all very brief. I can't say if Gohan aimed it or it was just a lucky reflex. He did, anyway, but was pushed back by the force of it so I can't imagine he wouldn't be damaged had he been hit.

With Boo, the anime had him kick the Genkidama and almost hit Goku while in the manga, he just hold his ground before Goku regaining his strength. Sure, he didn't bounce it back but he also wasn't overwhelmed by it by default.

Goku said the Genkidama could be bounced back if one didn't have evil ki, which Gohan doesn't but Boo himself is nothing but, and he hold his own. Besides, in all three cases, Goku had to gather the right amount of energy otherwise it wouldn't finish the job. This tells us the Genkidama has no special properties besides the way it is formed, since it's not enough to defeat an enemy if it doesn't have enough power. It has nothing to do with pureness of heart or being good.

But let's assume the Genkidama can't be used on people pure of heart and Geran is one of them. Goku shoots it at him, what happens next? Does it disintegrate? Does it pass through him? Aren't blocks and planets "pure"? Because it apparently didn't care before destroying them.

Exactly, a 20x Kaiouken won't be enough so the Genkidama has to surpass it in power to defeat Geran, right? This downright tell us that the technique in itself does not destroy anything, be it good or evil opponents.

I never even said that. I said we'll find out what will happen, but Super's shown it's tendency to fuck up a lot so it could go either way. I literally only added that just to see if you would get angry if I said that, and it seems you got triggered and horrendously exaggerated things. I'm completely open to whether I think it'll work or not. I haven't even got a full stance on the subject yet as I don't know. I haven't even condemned things yet. Not at least til I see what happens.

The whole point of the scene was Gohan was pure of heart and could not be effected by it. That's why he could bounce it back. If he wasn't pure of heart, he'd literally be killed by the move right on the spot. That's why Gohan easily deflected it without a scratch on him. If it was by his own force that allowed him to push it back, then Vegeta would not take nearly as much damage as he did. By your definition, Gohan should have just died pure heart or not considering he is much weaker than Vegeta is.

[spoiler]<Image from illegal manga hosting site removed by moderator.>[/spoiler]

That's because instead of a pure heart, Boo had enough power to hold it back. So it's much different. A pure hearted individual is not harmed, while an evil individual has to have enough strength to overcome such massive power. Boo survived on raw power, not on pureness. So he couldn't simply bounce it back as easily as Gohan. Not to mention in all three cases it's used on a villain, and not a person who is of pure heart. The Genki Dama can not harm someone of pure heart, which Goku himself assured Gohan of when he thought the attack was gonna kill him. It can be pushed back with enough force if you're evil. I have no idea how you are even coming to these conclusions. It needs enough power to overcome the power of a villain. That has nothing to do with a pure good being, as it's not used on one.

Planets don't have a soul or definition to even be considered good or evil, they don't have a ki at all to be judged. If Goku shoots it at Jiren and he's pure....he simply knocks it back just like Gohan did. It's literally as simple as that. Not to mention how the Genki dama works as it's not simple 1 to 1 ki, or Gohan along could have powered the Super Genki Dama up. It's not gonna go through him or disintegrate. He'll merely push it back without having to use much effort, and then it flies beyond the abyss before exploding. And that's only if he's a pure hearted being, which again Good does not equal pure. Good and pure are two different things and classifications. We don't know Jiren's personality fully...or if he'll even have one.

No it doesn't. It just has more power stockpiled into it. It's completely ineffective against if Jiren is of pure heart. Just like Gohan it won't do a thing. More power doesn't suddenly make it more of a big deal to reflect for a pure being. It's weight was enough to push Gohan back, but not even harm him when it did.

I'm not even arguing that the Genki Dama can't be used at all. They can totally make it work. They could also mess it up. I think it's plenty easy to make it work. Jiren isn't pure of heart, therefore it works fine. Goku can sense a ki if it's evil or not, so he'd know. It's easy to make work in Super. It's not an implausible idea. The bigger question is to see where he's gonna get that energy from. He's in a void world. Ki is not 1 to 1 Genki so that's not gonna make a difference, and I'm not sure God's are allowed to really give their energy to such an attack. Sounds like outside help. I'm curious to how this will be done.

[ssjprodigy]

Yo these spoilers are hype as hell a Gohan and Vegeta team-up against Freeza and Frost would be a dream come true

[CJStriker_CBR]

Geekdom101 has Another Translation of this As well That is Interesting, One Should Watch This!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzBb-L-AT0c

[Jigurashi]

Yo these spoilers are hype as hell a Gohan and Vegeta team-up against Freeza and Frost would be a dream come true

Nothing there actually said that Gohan and Vegeta were teaming up though.

[ssjprodigy]

Yo these spoilers are hype as hell a Gohan and Vegeta team-up against Freeza and Frost would be a dream come true

Nothing there actually said that Gohan and Vegeta were teaming up though.

I know that why I phrased it by saying "a" and would be"! Just me fanboying

[Chuquita]

Frost trying to mafuba Vegeta sounds entertaining. I wonder how close to succeeding he'll get.

[fadeddreams5]

Wait, Kid Buu was pure of heart and was also overpowered so how did it work on him.

He's pure evil. The perfect candidate to be obliterated by the blast. IIRC, he used his own ki to deflect it (i.e. generated wind through his palms) and was far stronger than Goku until Goku got his energy back.

Pure of heart is pure evil. Thats why Vegeta got super saiyan remember?

This is different. Gohan was told to bounce back the spirit bomb because he specifically had no evil ki/evil in his heart.

[CJStriker_CBR]

The thing is Botama does NOT actually have a lot of character. My point with him is he's had plenty of screen time, and he's still pretty bland anyways. So someone with far less screen time, and nothing going for him is unlikely to be anything more than an obstacle. Just like the last person Gohan fought who was just an obstacle, that they tried to make important by cheaply throwing in a family there's no reason to care about.

True. Not really sure how a character who's biggest thing going for him is just being a member of the race that taught Goku that one move is gonna evolve to something special. Especially when 9/10 times in the tournament, obstacle characters tend to share the same personality and traits...such as cocky asshole who laughs like a villain whether they are a villain or not, easily angered when out classed, and then usually is promptly eliminated by the end. The 1/10 being people like the real characters, or hyped characters like Ribriane.

Really still I felt I got a good character start arc to him and have enjoyed him ever since.

Now you may not see much in him that is ok, you can say way all day long why and that is ok, but my Liking of Jimeze is still their and I have some hope for him in the Future of the ToP, I feel he has a Unique character arc that goes with his theme of his universe and I hope we have more of him developing. Again you many not enjoy such characters but I do and I can see interest even in the more brief of intros and so far Jimeze is a very young character with still much to show in more intro to him.

What you like is what you like and what I like is what I like and I am Proud of who I like, that is what Makes Fandom Unique!

I will End it Their, Good Luck to you with who you like, I hope for the best!

[omaro34]

So obvious that Freeza was going to backstab his own universe. Hopefully that talk of Freeza becoming good is put to bed. Now more than likely he'll be killed off when this is done.

Gohan can thank his father for getting double teamed by Frost demons for insisting on Freeza joining the squad in the first place.

[dbzfan7]

The thing is Botama does NOT actually have a lot of character. My point with him is he's had plenty of screen time, and he's still pretty bland anyways. So someone with far less screen time, and nothing going for him is unlikely to be anything more than an obstacle. Just like the last person Gohan fought who was just an obstacle, that they tried to make important by cheaply throwing in a family there's no reason to care about.

True. Not really sure how a character who's biggest thing going for him is just being a member of the race that taught Goku that one move is gonna evolve to something special. Especially when 9/10 times in the tournament, obstacle characters tend to share the same personality and traits...such as cocky asshole who laughs like a villain whether they are a villain or not, easily angered when out classed, and then usually is promptly eliminated by the end. The 1/10 being people like the real characters, or hyped characters like Ribriane.

Really still I felt I got a good character start arc to him and have enjoyed him ever since.

Now you may not see much in him that is ok, you can say way all day long why and that is ok, but my Liking of Jimeze is still their and I have some hope for him in the Future of the ToP, I feel he has a Unique character arc that goes with his theme of his universe and I hope we have more of him developing. Again you many not enjoy such characters but I do and I can see interest even in the more brief of intros and so far Jimeze is a very young character with still much to show in more intro to him.

What you like is what you like and what I like is what I like and I am Proud of who I like, that is what Makes Fandom Unique!

I will End it Their, Good Luck to you with who you like, I hope for the best!


[img][spoiler]https://i.imgur.com/oavbeBY.png[/spoiler][/img]

Wasn't really trying to change your opinion or anything. I just don't see anything here that numerous small screen time characters in the likes of DB/Z/GT didn't already have. I never really asked why you seem to like this character, but to be honest I'm not sure I'd be interested to discuss that beyond a mild curiosity.

[CJStriker_CBR]

The thing is Botama does NOT actually have a lot of character. My point with him is he's had plenty of screen time, and he's still pretty bland anyways. So someone with far less screen time, and nothing going for him is unlikely to be anything more than an obstacle. Just like the last person Gohan fought who was just an obstacle, that they tried to make important by cheaply throwing in a family there's no reason to care about.

True. Not really sure how a character who's biggest thing going for him is just being a member of the race that taught Goku that one move is gonna evolve to something special. Especially when 9/10 times in the tournament, obstacle characters tend to share the same personality and traits...such as cocky asshole who laughs like a villain whether they are a villain or not, easily angered when out classed, and then usually is promptly eliminated by the end. The 1/10 being people like the real characters, or hyped characters like Ribriane.

Really still I felt I got a good character start arc to him and have enjoyed him ever since.

Now you may not see much in him that is ok, you can say way all day long why and that is ok, but my Liking of Jimeze is still their and I have some hope for him in the Future of the ToP, I feel he has a Unique character arc that goes with his theme of his universe and I hope we have more of him developing. Again you many not enjoy such characters but I do and I can see interest even in the more brief of intros and so far Jimeze is a very young character with still much to show in more intro to him.

What you like is what you like and what I like is what I like and I am Proud of who I like, that is what Makes Fandom Unique!

I will End it Their, Good Luck to you with who you like, I hope for the best!


[img][spoiler]https://i.imgur.com/oavbeBY.png[/spoiler][/img]

Wasn't really trying to change your opinion or anything. I just don't see anything here that numerous small screen time characters in the likes of DB/Z/GT didn't already have. I never really asked why you seem to like this character, but to be honest I'm not sure I'd be interested to discuss that beyond a mild curiosity.

Sounds Fine to me at this Point, Good Luck to You in Who You like!