Non-thread-worthy discussions

[JulieYBM]

I'd love to see the final Goku vs Vegeta battle (along with what leads up to it) from DBO's year 801, but so much time has passed since I first found out about it there's no way if animated it would live up to the expectations I have for it. Like I can picture it being on the level of some of the animation from the dbs Broly movie, but worry in reality it would be more like regular weekly dbs.

And yet I would still be incredibly excited if it was ever brought to screen and hit at least some of the notes. (Goku recognizes an issue with his own health, convinces Vegeta they should secretly run away together so they can fight to the death before this health issue takes him and tells no one else about the plan! It's so irresponsible, but it's so intriguing!)

Even oldish, semi-jaded me is still here for the tragemance of the supernova-inducing final Goku and Vegeta battle.

There's really no reason to think that a supposed final battle between Goku and Vegeta would look like Dragon Ball Super. Production issues aside, if that idea is ever adapted it certainly won't be as part of an infinite cour weekly series. At worst, it would be another Dragon Ball Daima—which had quite a few well-animated battles.

But even then, the production committee wouldn't tell that kind of story in anything less than a film, especially given the way things currently work in the industry. If the production committee members came together and decided to show "Son Goku and Vegeta have their final battle and disappear" as a story, it's going to be in theaters where they can maximize the profit.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I'd love to see the final Goku vs Vegeta battle (along with what leads up to it) from DBO's year 801, but so much time has passed since I first found out about it there's no way if animated it would live up to the expectations I have for it. Like I can picture it being on the level of some of the animation from the dbs Broly movie, but worry in reality it would be more like regular weekly dbs.

And yet I would still be incredibly excited if it was ever brought to screen and hit at least some of the notes. (Goku recognizes an issue with his own health, convinces Vegeta they should secretly run away together so they can fight to the death before this health issue takes him and tells no one else about the plan! It's so irresponsible, but it's so intriguing!)

Even oldish, semi-jaded me is still here for the tragemance of the supernova-inducing final Goku and Vegeta battle.

There's really no reason to think that a supposed final battle between Goku and Vegeta would look like Dragon Ball Super. Production issues aside, if that idea is ever adapted it certainly won't be as part of an infinite cour weekly series. At worst, it would be another Dragon Ball Daima—which had quite a few well-animated battles.

But even then, the production committee wouldn't tell that kind of story in anything less than a film, especially given the way things currently work in the industry. If the production committee members came together and decided to show "Son Goku and Vegeta have their final battle and disappear" as a story, it's going to be in theaters where they can maximize the profit.

Super Hero wasn't even about them and their fight took up a small chunk of the movie just to show off the CGI.

[JulieYBM]

I'd love to see the final Goku vs Vegeta battle (along with what leads up to it) from DBO's year 801, but so much time has passed since I first found out about it there's no way if animated it would live up to the expectations I have for it. Like I can picture it being on the level of some of the animation from the dbs Broly movie, but worry in reality it would be more like regular weekly dbs.

And yet I would still be incredibly excited if it was ever brought to screen and hit at least some of the notes. (Goku recognizes an issue with his own health, convinces Vegeta they should secretly run away together so they can fight to the death before this health issue takes him and tells no one else about the plan! It's so irresponsible, but it's so intriguing!)

Even oldish, semi-jaded me is still here for the tragemance of the supernova-inducing final Goku and Vegeta battle.

There's really no reason to think that a supposed final battle between Goku and Vegeta would look like Dragon Ball Super. Production issues aside, if that idea is ever adapted it certainly won't be as part of an infinite cour weekly series. At worst, it would be another Dragon Ball Daima—which had quite a few well-animated battles.

But even then, the production committee wouldn't tell that kind of story in anything less than a film, especially given the way things currently work in the industry. If the production committee members came together and decided to show "Son Goku and Vegeta have their final battle and disappear" as a story, it's going to be in theaters where they can maximize the profit.

Super Hero wasn't even about them and their fight took up a small chunk of the movie just to show off the CGI.

Yeah, exactly. That wasn't even a good fight, either, because there was no story or character behind it. If we ever get "I'm beginning to feel the effects of time on my body" as the basis for character arcs, then obviously that's going to have an entire film dedicated to it.

I honestly would love to see Director Ishitani Megumi and Writer Tomioka Atsuhiro take that idea and run with it. Go full Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn for a 90 minute movie and show us what kind of mistakes those two make that gives one last, true battle to the death real meaning and weight to them. None of their sparring sessions in Dragon Ball Super or Dragon Ball Daima meant anything because there was nothing to be invested in the outcome.

[Michelle91]

GT may be the only DB show were no bad guy became good. Unlike in the other series of Dragon Ball.

DB: Oolong, Yamucha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu
DBZ: Piccolo, Vegeta, #16, #17, #18, and Fat Buu
Super: Ganma 1 & 2
Daima: Glorio

[Kid Buu]

GT may be the only DB show were no bad guy became good. Unlike in the other series of Dragon Ball.

DB: Oolong, Yamucha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu
DBZ: Piccolo, Vegeta, #16, #17, #18, and Fat Buu
Super: Ganma 1 & 2
Daima: Glorio

Maybe could make a case for the Red Fire Shadow Dragon?

[Michelle91]

I don't think he was ever evil. He was more natural as he still had moral standers as he said that he doesn't hurt or kill kids.

[Kid Buu]

I don't think he was ever evil. He was more natural as he still had moral standers as he said that he doesn't hurt or kill kids.

Fair enough. Can't think of any other examples so your point stands.

[Koitsukai]

GT may be the only DB show were no bad guy became good. Unlike in the other series of Dragon Ball.

DB: Oolong, Yamucha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu
DBZ: Piccolo, Vegeta, #16, #17, #18, and Fat Buu
Super: Ganma 1 & 2
Daima: Glorio

And the one were good guys became bad, like #17 or the Dragon Balls (a stretch).

Daima: I would add Kuu and Duu but they weren't really evil, Arinsu didn't turn good but she became neutral at least.

[JulieYBM]

Giru became good! There was even a whole little bit about it with Pan. Sure, he's not a Tenshinhan or whatever, but it's still a similar vain.

[super michael]

Giru became good! There was even a whole little bit about it with Pan. Sure, he's not a Tenshinhan or whatever, but it's still a similar vain.

I haven't watched GT in a long time so I could be wrong, but I remember Giru and Trunks together together in secret and Trunks getting turned into metal was his plan. Goku suspected that they were working together and Giru didn't betray them. So everything that happened in Rilld planet was part of Giru and Trunks plan.
So long story short I don't think Giru was evil.

Pan and Giru does make a good team like Yamcha and Puar, Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu, and Goten and Trunks.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

There's really no reason to think that a supposed final battle between Goku and Vegeta would look like Dragon Ball Super. Production issues aside, if that idea is ever adapted it certainly won't be as part of an infinite cour weekly series. At worst, it would be another Dragon Ball Daima—which had quite a few well-animated battles.

But even then, the production committee wouldn't tell that kind of story in anything less than a film, especially given the way things currently work in the industry. If the production committee members came together and decided to show "Son Goku and Vegeta have their final battle and disappear" as a story, it's going to be in theaters where they can maximize the profit.

Super Hero wasn't even about them and their fight took up a small chunk of the movie just to show off the CGI.

Yeah, exactly. That wasn't even a good fight, either, because there was no story or character behind it. If we ever get "I'm beginning to feel the effects of time on my body" as the basis for character arcs, then obviously that's going to have an entire film dedicated to it.

I honestly would love to see Director Ishitani Megumi and Writer Tomioka Atsuhiro take that idea and run with it. Go full Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn for a 90 minute movie and show us what kind of mistakes those two make that gives one last, true battle to the death real meaning and weight to them. None of their sparring sessions in Dragon Ball Super or Dragon Ball Daima meant anything because there was nothing to be invested in the outcome.

There was a missed opportunity to use Goku and Vegeta's sparring match as a set-up for a hilarious gag in Super Hero. Leave everything the same, but right when Goku and Vegeta are about to connect their punches hard cut to Bulma and continue the movie's A-Plot. Then we don't get to see them until after the credits where we see the damage done to the planet.
They could've played with the audience's expectations that way. I know some people didn't like the build up, but I felt that was worth keeping to watch Beerus crush on Cheelai.

[SupremeKai25]

GT may be the only DB show were no bad guy became good. Unlike in the other series of Dragon Ball.

DB: Oolong, Yamucha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu
DBZ: Piccolo, Vegeta, #16, #17, #18, and Fat Buu
Super: Ganma 1 & 2
Daima: Glorio

Eh, I wouldn't really describe Ganma 1& 2 as bad guys. And Super definitely has some of the most evil and irredeemable villains in the franchise.

At least Majin Buu is just a brainless animal. Moro is an intelligent being who actively chooses to devour whole worlds to sate himself instead of training. Even when he is offered a chance of redemption, he rejects it and reaffirms his evil. And Zamasu... dude literally caused the extinction of every single living organism in the Cosmos.

Kind of funny how a midquel series that is supposed to be more "light-hearted" has such despicable, cruel villains who casually commit planetary genocide for fun.

[Koitsukai]

Giru became good! There was even a whole little bit about it with Pan. Sure, he's not a Tenshinhan or whatever, but it's still a similar vain.

I haven't watched GT in a long time so I could be wrong, but I remember Giru and Trunks together together in secret and Trunks getting turned into metal was his plan. Goku suspected that they were working together and Giru didn't betray them. So everything that happened in Rilld planet was part of Giru and Trunks plan.
So long story short I don't think Giru was evil.

Pan and Giru does make a good team like Yamcha and Puar, Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu, and Goten and Trunks.

Right, I don't have that arc that fresh in my mind but I think one "night" while everybody was asleep, Trunks sees Giru staring at some planet, longing for it, and shares with him how fucked up Dr Myuu was, and then they come up with the Giru is a traitor plan.
He was never evil to begin with. But I don't remember all the details.

In any case, he was introduced as a good guy, then turned bad, then turned good.

[angeldreamZ004]

Spoiler:

Eh, I wouldn't really describe Ganma 1& 2 as bad guys. And Super definitely has some of the most evil and irredeemable villains in the franchise.

At least Majin Buu is just a brainless animal. Moro is an intelligent being who actively chooses to devour whole worlds to sate himself instead of training. Even when he is offered a chance of redemption, he rejects it and reaffirms his evil. And Zamasu... dude literally caused the extinction of every single living organism in the Cosmos.

Kind of funny how a midquel series that is supposed to be more "light-hearted" has such despicable, cruel villains who casually commit planetary genocide for fun.

But Super had less villains than the original series. Back then, there was the Red Ribbon and Freeza armies, where pretty much everyone was irredeemable. Then Raditz, Nappa, Gero, 19, Future 17 & 18, Cell, Babidi and his servants. Technically Super Boo is not the same as Kid Boo, as he was intelligent and also the one who caused human extinction first (then the latter finishes with the full planet destruction)

The only competition in Super would be with the Moro arc where other than Moro himself, there were the prisoners. Aside from them, there isn't really much other than the Hita, Magenta, Frost and Zamasu. Most of Super was non-evil / neutral antagonists.

[SupremeKai25]

Spoiler:

Eh, I wouldn't really describe Ganma 1& 2 as bad guys. And Super definitely has some of the most evil and irredeemable villains in the franchise.

At least Majin Buu is just a brainless animal. Moro is an intelligent being who actively chooses to devour whole worlds to sate himself instead of training. Even when he is offered a chance of redemption, he rejects it and reaffirms his evil. And Zamasu... dude literally caused the extinction of every single living organism in the Cosmos.

Kind of funny how a midquel series that is supposed to be more "light-hearted" has such despicable, cruel villains who casually commit planetary genocide for fun.

But Super had less villains than the original series. Back then, there was the Red Ribbon and Freeza armies, where pretty much everyone was irredeemable. Then Raditz, Nappa, Gero, 19, Future 17 & 18, Cell, Babidi and his servants. Technically Super Boo is not the same as Kid Boo, as he was intelligent and also the one who caused human extinction first (then the latter finishes with the full planet destruction)

The only competition in Super would be with the Moro arc where other than Moro himself, there were the prisoners. Aside from them, there isn't really much other than the Hita, Magenta, Frost and Zamasu. Most of Super was non-evil / neutral antagonists.

Frost and Elec are supposed to have connections and a huge empire (in Frost's case, if he won also in Elec's case), we just don't see it because it's not relevant to the story. But yes, most of Super's antagonists are not villains, they're just good people put on the other side of a conflict. Which is interesting, actually. I mean, it's good that Beerus/Hit/Jiren/Broly don't just die in their first saga but are allowed to grow as characters and get cameos in newer arcs.

[Koitsukai]

Some antagonists turned good, like Granola. He wasn't evil, but he was determined to kill a few people out of revenge.

I wouldn't brush off Freeza just yet. He didn't turn good, but he played for the good guys. I know there weren't really good or bad guys in the ToP, but he did good, the poor bastard.

Broly wasn't evil either, but he became good. He was just on the fence; had Freeza taken him in, he probably would've gone the other way.

Bardock had a change of heart. From a franchise POV, he was evil, and DBS turned him into a caring and loving father lol.

So, it isn't like in the original manga, where plain evil dudes became Goku's best friends. DBS has more neutral characters becoming good (or softening up like Hit or Jiren), and evil people doing good. Beerus would be another example.
Goku is still having that effect on people.

[Michelle91]

Bardock in DB- and DBS was still a bad guy as he still killed millions (if not billions) during his job and never thought much of it. He may care about his family and help one person, but he is not a saint. He went to Hell for sure.

[Grimlock]

Who's to say Bardock didn't leave mothers and their children alive in other planets?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Final two episodes of Dragon Ball Z aired on Çufo TV in Albania today, and Mondays schedule lists Dragon Ball GT airing from 12:40-1:30pm with Z airing 7:55-8:45pm although this could be a scheduling error.

Source: https://tvprofil.com/ie/tvschedule/#!da ... al=cufo-tv

[Michelle91]

Who's to say Bardock didn't leave mothers and their children alive in other planets?

We can't say for sure as we never saw it. However, he may make let some expections slide. He's still a bad guy as even shitty people can still be nice towards others. Al Simmons in Spawn is an example as he enjoy his job being a military solider that kills people when he was human, but he still loved his wife and best friend.