Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Dbzfan94]

Don't mean Trunks' Rage form was based off LSSJ? Ultra SSJ/Grade 3 also seemed to be based off of it.

Idk what the heck Deensetsu is supposed to be.

Densetsu is Japanese for legend/legendary.

Oh. Thanks. not sure why Cetra didnt just say the english word.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Oh. Thanks. not sure why Cetra didnt just say the english word.

I've also noticed people have started using "Saiyajin" regularly now too. Japanese friends I talk to type "Saiyan" and abbreviations like SS2, SSG etc with no J's like Westerners like to add. It's really bizarre why Westerners do that.

[Jackalope89]

Oh. Thanks. not sure why Cetra didnt just say the english word.

I've also noticed people have started using "Saiyajin" regularly now too. Japanese friends I talk to type "Saiyan" and abbreviations like SS2, SSG etc with no J's like Westerners like to add. It's really bizarre why Westerners do that.

The "weeaboo" is strong with them.

[AnimeNation101]

If this is what its like to have Toriyama involved, we need less of it. Toyotaro’s manga chapters have been consistently bad with only a good one coming ever few months.

What I wish would happen is Toriyama and the Dragon Ball Room find a talent writer and artist who understands Dragon Ball and its characters, and have them become Toriyama’s apprentice. Before Super 2.0 comes, they discontinue the Super promotional manga and start Super 2.0 as a weekly manga on Weekly Shonen Jump where the real deal manga go. And hopefully this time Toei, Toriyama, and the new apprentice work closer than ever. And the give the guy an editor.

I’m sorry but we need a successor to Toriyama and Dragon Ball might be doomed if its Toyotaro.

Toyotaro is not the best, that for sure. But is A LOT better than Toei. Super's anime has the worst script I've ever seen (and yes, the manga is not perfect... but is better without a doubt). Royal Blue, Blue kaioken, Trunkss form,... all is totally bullshit, and Toei knows that.

That's accurate. The reason my hope is building is because broly is my favorite character in the franchise and somehow he's coming back and made "canon". And then in this broly movie may not EVEN HAVE toei filler transformations which would be awesome! Here's what I want!
Dbs Orginal anime run be compeltly nulled as noncanon.
We either get a reboot to dbs anime OR the new dbs anime from now adapts toyotaro manga
And then we have an arc where the events of GT ARE CANON(A GT TIMELINE) WOAaaah!!!!!

If this broly can AT LEAST have none of those toei filler forms, a good step in the direction. Because ssj god vegeta was a TOYOTARO idea! And it's in the movie.

HECK NO. Way more db fans have enjoyed the anime compared to the manga.

And about this whole “nullify the dbs anime” and “follow the dbs manga”, never gonna happen. The dbs anime has way more of a following so replacing it in favor of a less know manga that was made to promote the anime is never gonna happen. No one would want a DBS reboot anyway. People want NEW content. Sure, Toriyama and Toei can take some ideas from GT and twist it to make it their own but the moment they make an arc thats exactly GT, you know they’re getting lazy.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way.

[Noah]

I wonder, what if Super Saiyajin Broly (who seems not to have any pupils as well) was made based on Super Saiyajin Ikari? So maybe that one is not an ordinary SSJ, but Ikari and then next is Densetsu.

Impossible, Toriyama would never be inspired by such a terrible transformation.

[PFM18]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way

I agree 100%.

[1345521]

Toyotaro is not the best, that for sure. But is A LOT better than Toei. Super's anime has the worst script I've ever seen (and yes, the manga is not perfect... but is better without a doubt). Royal Blue, Blue kaioken, Trunkss form,... all is totally bullshit, and Toei knows that.

That's accurate. The reason my hope is building is because broly is my favorite character in the franchise and somehow he's coming back and made "canon". And then in this broly movie may not EVEN HAVE toei filler transformations which would be awesome! Here's what I want!
Dbs Orginal anime run be compeltly nulled as noncanon.
We either get a reboot to dbs anime OR the new dbs anime from now adapts toyotaro manga
And then we have an arc where the events of GT ARE CANON(A GT TIMELINE) WOAaaah!!!!!

If this broly can AT LEAST have none of those toei filler forms, a good step in the direction. Because ssj god vegeta was a TOYOTARO idea! And it's in the movie.

HECK NO. Way more db fans have enjoyed the anime compared to the manga.

And about this whole “nullify the dbs anime” and “follow the dbs manga”, never gonna happen. The dbs anime has way more of a following so replacing it in favor of a less know manga that was made to promote the anime is never gonna happen. No one would want a DBS reboot anyway. People want NEW content. Sure, Toriyama and Toei can take some ideas from GT and twist it to make it their own but the moment they make an arc thats exactly GT, you know they’re getting lazy.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way.

Take all of that, and go to the dbs manga forum so I can properly discuss those points. I told you, I'm not getting in trouble by mods, again. This forum is about the movie, not dbs manga vs dbs anime.

As I said, ssj god vegeta is a toyotaro idea and somehow made it's way to the dbs movie while no sign of kaioken or evolution.

[AnimeNation101]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way

I agree 100%.

I really do want Dragon Ball to eventually have a serious manga that the anime is based off of. A manga that is released on the Weekly Shonen Jump magazine just like how the original Dragon Ball manga was. It would need a good writer and artist who can emulate Toriyama’s style while not necessarily copying him. Basically there writing can get the same results as Toriyama’s writing but by doing it their own way. Same destination but different path. They’d also have to be creative. They shouldn’t limit themselves to just Toriyama’s level. If they have the freedom to and want to go complex with their stories, let them while still keeping the Dragon Ball nature.

And then we get an anime based off that manga.

[Bergamo]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way

I agree 100%.

Give an example of Toyotaro changing things for no reason, and tell me why that example is bad.

[PFM18]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way

I agree 100%.

Give an example of Toyotaro changing things for no reason, and tell me why that example is bad.

Goku learning the Hakai
Trunks having Kai-esque healing powers
Black and Zamasu defusing

All of these examples are bad because they aren't particularly believable, don't add to the story in an organic way, and just don't make any sense. And in the case of the 3rd item on this list, it literally blatantly contradicts what was previously established. These are all changes that were completely and totally unnecessary and don't add to the narrative, don't further the plot in a cohesive way,and they are just ridiculous. Gods of Destruction use the Hakai, not random mortals. Kais are born the way they are and can have resulting healing powers, you don't just randomly attain them in Trunks's case.

building up Jiren as being moral and heroic before the tournament just for it to not manifest itself in any way during the tournament.
Eliminating 4 Universes in a matter of 8 pages and depriving us of the development of those Universes and the corresponding fight and character moments that came with those fights.

[1345521]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way

I agree 100%.

I dissagree with a lot of what you said (surprise surprise), but I'd be ESATIC if not only do we get no kaioken or evolution BUT A REFRENCE WAS MADE TO THE MANGA VERSION OF EVENTS. YEEEEESSS. Though, what's the favorite of what's going to happen is this movie will only reference parts and have things that were in manga AND anime. That's why I said this movie is an differnt continuity then the tv show. It just only takes place after the show. What's most probable is that:
DBz bog -> rof -> unseen Akira plot outlines for each arc -> movie
Dbs manga -> dbs manga broly arc
Dbs anime -> comes back and does a re tell of the arc for its continuation.
This would make all fans happy. Now let's get to the polar descsions:
Dbs movie is basically influenced a lot by toyotaro manga since Akira really wants to push it. Akira basically writes this movie so toyotaro takes it and just expands it in his manga, instead of change anything. So the movie will have reference to manga, mssj blue exist and such.
Then we get an manga adaption of the arc that's in line with the movie. Then op toei comes back a little while later and either just adapts the manga version of events and subtly retcons all 131 episodes, OR they reboot all of dbs into the manga version so fans can see the "real dbs".
This is an the MOST EXTREME case but I hope.

The other way which is more likely then the manga version is:
Kaioken (and evolution) do appear in film. References are made to the anime as expected, toei comes back and skips the broly arc which would probably get them where toyotaro is. As usual,pass him and leave his manga in the dust. OR they re tell the broly arc in my more detail, maybe use some frames and panels from toyos manga to help the staff with a animation (like they did during the early parts of unvierse 6 arc) but just craft their own story.

Or...lol. Toei tv show never comes back and all we get is movie and the manga. Honestly, I would not mind that. We get a good movie, toyotaro just expands it in his manga. So we get a movie continuity and manga contiguity.

Honestly, from a to D in options for most likely.
A (movie is plain for both mediums. So both mediums re tell it to fit their continuation
C (movie is an anime continuation. Reference are made for anime, kaioken most likely appears. We either get a re tell when the tv show comes back or we start at the next point in time)
B (Movies is made for manga take-over. Movie gives nods to manga, anime t. Show comes back and just adapts manga)
D(nuclear for most db fans and all we get is movie events (which MAY be based off the anime though) and the manga events.

[AnimeNation101]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.



I agree 100%.

Give an example of Toyotaro changing things for no reason, and tell me why that example is bad.

Goku learning the Hakai
Trunks having Kai-esque healing powers
Black and Zamasu defusing

All of these examples are bad because they aren't particularly believable, don't add to the story in an organic way, and just don't make any sense. And in the case of the 3rd item on this list, it literally blatantly contradicts what was previously established. These are all changes that were completely and totally unnecessary and don't add to the narrative, don't further the plot in a cohesive way,and they are just ridiculous. Gods of Destruction use the Hakai, not random mortals. Kais are born the way they are and can have resulting healing powers, you don't just randomly attain them in Trunks's case.

building up Jiren as being moral and heroic before the tournament just for it to not manifest itself in any way during the tournament.
Eliminating 4 Universes in a matter of 8 pages and depriving us of the development of those Universes and the corresponding fight and character moments that came with those fights.

Also he does some thing in the manga where he adds an extra time ring for some reason and its just ends up making everything even more confusing. Also there are many contradictions in the latest manga

[1345521]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.



I agree 100%.

Give an example of Toyotaro changing things for no reason, and tell me why that example is bad.

Goku learning the Hakai
Trunks having Kai-esque healing powers
Black and Zamasu defusing

All of these examples are bad because they aren't particularly believable, don't add to the story in an organic way, and just don't make any sense. And in the case of the 3rd item on this list, it literally blatantly contradicts what was previously established. These are all changes that were completely and totally unnecessary and don't add to the narrative, don't further the plot in a cohesive way,and they are just ridiculous. Gods of Destruction use the Hakai, not random mortals. Kais are born the way they are and can have resulting healing powers, you don't just randomly attain them in Trunks's case.

building up Jiren as being moral and heroic before the tournament just for it to not manifest itself in any way during the tournament.
Eliminating 4 Universes in a matter of 8 pages and depriving us of the development of those Universes and the corresponding fight and character moments that came with those fights.

Hey. As much as I'd like to debunk those points you made: this is an broly thread. We will get in trouble if you and bergamo start turning this into an anime vs manga. Take that joint to the manga forum.

[AnimeNation101]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way

I agree 100%.

I dissagree with a lot of what you said (surprise surprise), but I'd be ESATIC if not only do we get no kaioken or evolution BUT A REFRENCE WAS MADE TO THE MANGA VERSION OF EVENTS. YEEEEESSS. Though, what's the favorite of what's going to happen is this movie will only reference parts and have things that were in manga AND anime. That's why I said this movie is an differnt continuity then the tv show. It just only takes place after the show. What's most probable is that:
DBz bog -> rof -> unseen Akira plot outlines for each arc -> movie
Dbs manga -> dbs manga broly arc
Dbs anime -> comes back and does a re tell of the arc for its continuation.
This would make all fans happy. Now let's get to the polar descsions:
Dbs movie is basically influenced a lot by toyotaro manga since Akira really wants to push it. Akira basically writes this movie so toyotaro takes it and just expands it in his manga, instead of change anything. So the movie will have reference to manga, mssj blue exist and such.
Then we get an manga adaption of the arc that's in line with the movie. Then op toei comes back a little while later and either just adapts the manga version of events and subtly retcons all 131 episodes, OR they reboot all of dbs into the manga version so fans can see the "real dbs".
This is an the MOST EXTREME case but I hope.

The other way which is more likely then the manga version is:
Kaioken (and evolution) do appear in film. References are made to the anime as expected, toei comes back and skips the broly arc which would probably get them where toyotaro is. As usual,pass him and leave his manga in the dust. OR they re tell the broly arc in my more detail, maybe use some frames and panels from toyos manga to help the staff with a animation (like they did during the early parts of unvierse 6 arc) but just craft their own story.

Or...lol. Toei tv show never comes back and all we get is movie and the manga. Honestly, I would not mind that. We get a good movie, toyotaro just expands it in his manga. So we get a movie continuity and manga contiguity.

Honestly, from a to D in options for most likely.
A (movie is plain for both mediums. So both mediums re tell it to fit their continuation
C (movie is an anime continuation. Reference are made for anime, kaioken most likely appears. We either get a re tell when the tv show comes back or we start at the next point in time)
B (Movies is made for manga take-over. Movie gives nods to manga, anime t. Show comes back and just adapts manga)
D(nuclear for most db fans and all we get is movie events (which MAY be based off the anime though) and the manga events.

Why would a DBS ANIMATED movie be based off of DBS’s promotional manga? Here’s a parallel. The SDBH arcade game is WAY more important and popular than the anime that way made solely to promote it. The promotional stuff will never outshine what they’re promoting. Its the same with DBS. And we already know that this movie isn’t a sequel to the manga because the manga is already gonna get its own adaption of the DBS Broly movie. The manga is already making its own sequel so the animated movie can’t be its sequel.

[PFM18]

Give an example of Toyotaro changing things for no reason, and tell me why that example is bad.

Goku learning the Hakai
Trunks having Kai-esque healing powers
Black and Zamasu defusing

All of these examples are bad because they aren't particularly believable, don't add to the story in an organic way, and just don't make any sense. And in the case of the 3rd item on this list, it literally blatantly contradicts what was previously established. These are all changes that were completely and totally unnecessary and don't add to the narrative, don't further the plot in a cohesive way,and they are just ridiculous. Gods of Destruction use the Hakai, not random mortals. Kais are born the way they are and can have resulting healing powers, you don't just randomly attain them in Trunks's case.

building up Jiren as being moral and heroic before the tournament just for it to not manifest itself in any way during the tournament.
Eliminating 4 Universes in a matter of 8 pages and depriving us of the development of those Universes and the corresponding fight and character moments that came with those fights.

Hey. As much as I'd like to debunk those points you made: this is an broly thread. We will get in trouble if you and bergamo start turning this into an anime vs manga. Take that joint to the manga forum.

And this is a discussion on which continuity we want the movie to adapt; the manga or the anime continuity? In the event it adapts the manga there will be no SSBKK/SSBE and vice versa. It is still relevant to the movie.

[Bergamo]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.



I agree 100%.

Give an example of Toyotaro changing things for no reason, and tell me why that example is bad.

Goku learning the Hakai
Trunks having Kai-esque healing powers
Black and Zamasu defusing

All of these examples are bad because they aren't particularly believable, don't add to the story in an organic way, and just don't make any sense. And in the case of the 3rd item on this list, it literally blatantly contradicts what was previously established. These are all changes that were completely and totally unnecessary and don't add to the narrative, don't further the plot in a cohesive way,and they are just ridiculous. Gods of Destruction use the Hakai, not random mortals. Kais are born the way they are and can have resulting healing powers, you don't just randomly attain them in Trunks's case.

building up Jiren as being moral and heroic before the tournament just for it to not manifest itself in any way during the tournament.
Eliminating 4 Universes in a matter of 8 pages and depriving us of the development of those Universes and the corresponding fight and character moments that came with those fights.

1. They literally never say that Hakai is a GoD exclusive technique. As far as I'm concerned, Goku just stole Beerus's signature move.
2. Kibito had healing powers because he was an apprentice, so when Teunks became and apprentice he had healing powers too. Zamas was originally a Kaio, yet he could become an apprentice, so why can't Trunks? This also let's Trunks be useful without giving him an unexplained transformation. I think Trunks, a character who restores timelines, getting the ability to restore physically is fitting. Trunks has never been the type of character who wants to get the kill. He calls upon Vegeta and Goku for help because he knows his limitations.
3. This was actually in the outline so...

[1345521]

I think Toyotaro's involvement should be strictly aesthetic. He does a very good job with the art and he did a good job helping AT design the look of several of the GoDs and I think they turned out really well. In terms of replicating Toriyama's style and giving a real "DB look" he does a great job and would be a worthy successor to Toriyama.

That said, he clearly has a lot of trouble from a storytelling perspective. He just changes things when compared to the anime just for the sake of changing them. Changing it just for the sake of change rather than giving a functionality to the changes that makes for a better story. I think he tries to do the "write as I go"style that Toriyama does where there is little planning involved, but it just doesn't work very well for him. Only Toriyama can pull that off. If the movie is based in any capacity on the manga I will be very disappointed. Especially since if I recall correctly it is already confirmed that Toyo is going to make a manga version of the Broly events. Which would make sense because he is clearly rushing through the ToP as fast as possible. He has voiced his passion for Broly as a character and it seems he may be too anxious to write Broly rather than finishing the ToP and I really think that they should be kept separately in terms of the two continuities. They are just far too different to be swapping things from each other.

in my opinion, the movie, and anything else animated, should be kept the way as is with Toei handling things and Toyotaro having his monthly manga.



I agree 100%.

I dissagree with a lot of what you said (surprise surprise), but I'd be ESATIC if not only do we get no kaioken or evolution BUT A REFRENCE WAS MADE TO THE MANGA VERSION OF EVENTS. YEEEEESSS. Though, what's the favorite of what's going to happen is this movie will only reference parts and have things that were in manga AND anime. That's why I said this movie is an differnt continuity then the tv show. It just only takes place after the show. What's most probable is that:
DBz bog -> rof -> unseen Akira plot outlines for each arc -> movie
Dbs manga -> dbs manga broly arc
Dbs anime -> comes back and does a re tell of the arc for its continuation.
This would make all fans happy. Now let's get to the polar descsions:
Dbs movie is basically influenced a lot by toyotaro manga since Akira really wants to push it. Akira basically writes this movie so toyotaro takes it and just expands it in his manga, instead of change anything. So the movie will have reference to manga, mssj blue exist and such.
Then we get an manga adaption of the arc that's in line with the movie. Then op toei comes back a little while later and either just adapts the manga version of events and subtly retcons all 131 episodes, OR they reboot all of dbs into the manga version so fans can see the "real dbs".
This is an the MOST EXTREME case but I hope.

The other way which is more likely then the manga version is:
Kaioken (and evolution) do appear in film. References are made to the anime as expected, toei comes back and skips the broly arc which would probably get them where toyotaro is. As usual,pass him and leave his manga in the dust. OR they re tell the broly arc in my more detail, maybe use some frames and panels from toyos manga to help the staff with a animation (like they did during the early parts of unvierse 6 arc) but just craft their own story.

Or...lol. Toei tv show never comes back and all we get is movie and the manga. Honestly, I would not mind that. We get a good movie, toyotaro just expands it in his manga. So we get a movie continuity and manga contiguity.

Honestly, from a to D in options for most likely.
A (movie is plain for both mediums. So both mediums re tell it to fit their continuation
C (movie is an anime continuation. Reference are made for anime, kaioken most likely appears. We either get a re tell when the tv show comes back or we start at the next point in time)
B (Movies is made for manga take-over. Movie gives nods to manga, anime t. Show comes back and just adapts manga)
D(nuclear for most db fans and all we get is movie events (which MAY be based off the anime though) and the manga events.

Why would a DBS ANIMATED movie be based off of DBS’s promotional manga? Here’s a parallel. The SDBH arcade game is WAY more important and popular than the anime that way made solely to promote it. The promotional stuff will never outshine what they’re promoting. Its the same with DBS. And we already know that this movie isn’t a sequel to the manga because the manga is already gonna get its own adaption of the DBS Broly movie. The manga is already making its own sequel so the animated movie can’t be its sequel.

The dbs manga isn't "promotional" for the anime. The dbs manga was PROMOTIONAL for the movies, but once universe 6 arc came around. It became it's own stand alone manga. You're acting like the manga is reliant on the anime. Like if the heroes aracadd game fails, so does the anime since that anime is meant to PROMOTE the game, hence why it's short.

The manga is a full Monthly publication manga that does it's own thing, it's not meant to promote anything but it's sponsors, and creators (Akira and toyotaro-not toei).if the manga was mere promotional.
First of all, it'd be AHEAD of the anime (no one is going to care about a sorry promo manga that's behind the show. What base would be attracting?)
And give monthly mini chapter about what's going to happen in the upcoming anime events. It wouldn't be a full manga chapter that does it's entirely own thing...LOOL. Plus toyotaro is stated to be akiras SUCESSOR, he isn't no sorry irrvlant promo mangaka. His manga is just as powerful as supers anime, the only differnce is his manga is not nearly as popular a the anime. But they both hold wait as being canon. Some would argue ...nvm. Let me not...

Manga isn't promotional. It's it own thing. And if Akira really likes toyotaro manga and INSIST the movie be made to promote the manga or have things in the movie that's sort of an knod to toyotaro manga. The movie WILL HAVE IT. And nothing about it won't make sense. Movie is made by Akira so he can do whatever the heck he wants with it. I just think of it as Akira wants this movie to PROMOTE the dbs manga since that will be the future of dragon ball. So movies will have things more in line to dbs manga. So people will start to buy the manga of dbs. Once that happens, anime comes in and adapts toyotaro manga (or reboot all of dbs to the manga version). Then dragon ball is adapated of dbs manga and returns to what it was, before. Akira is an manga artist at heart, so I don't see why he wouldn't use his influence to pass down more spotlight and power to his CHOSEN ONE sucessor through this movie.

[PFM18]

Give an example of Toyotaro changing things for no reason, and tell me why that example is bad.

Goku learning the Hakai
Trunks having Kai-esque healing powers
Black and Zamasu defusing

All of these examples are bad because they aren't particularly believable, don't add to the story in an organic way, and just don't make any sense. And in the case of the 3rd item on this list, it literally blatantly contradicts what was previously established. These are all changes that were completely and totally unnecessary and don't add to the narrative, don't further the plot in a cohesive way,and they are just ridiculous. Gods of Destruction use the Hakai, not random mortals. Kais are born the way they are and can have resulting healing powers, you don't just randomly attain them in Trunks's case.

building up Jiren as being moral and heroic before the tournament just for it to not manifest itself in any way during the tournament.
Eliminating 4 Universes in a matter of 8 pages and depriving us of the development of those Universes and the corresponding fight and character moments that came with those fights.

1. They literally never say that Hakai is a GoD exclusive technique. As far as I'm concerned, Goku just stole Beerus's signature move.
2. Kibito had healing powers because he was an apprentice, so when Teunks became and apprentice he had healing powers too. Zamas was originally a Kaio, yet he could become an apprentice, so why can't Trunks? This also let's Trunks be useful without giving him an unexplained transformation. I think Trunks, a character who restores timelines, getting the ability to restore physically is fitting. Trunks has never been the type of character who wants to get the kill. He calls upon Vegeta and Goku for help because he knows his limitations.
3. This was actually in the outline so...

1. It is never outright explicitly stated, but this is the epitome of an unnecessary change. There was no real reason Goku had to learn the Hakai. It didn't really add anything to the story and it undermines the premise of being a GoD if anybody can use their signature technique. It may not be a blatant contradiction, but it weakens the prestige of being a God of Destruction needlessly and again, it adds absolutely nothing to the story. Again, pointless change.
2. Trunks becoming an apprentice in the first place makes absolutely no sense because he isn't a Kaio and never was a Kaio. It defeats the entire over arching premise of Zamasu purging the mortals if anybody can become a god by "becoming an apprentice." Trunks becoming a Kaio doesn't align with anything ever previously established and contradicts the entire premise of the arc itself. Kaio are supposed to be Gods that oversee things in a particular area, not some mortal that decided to apply for the job. They are BORN that way. Again, a perfect example of an unnecessary change.
3. Ok well I don't particularly care if it was in the outline or not. The anime omitted it and Toriyama approved it. So clearly, Toriyama realized his mistake or didn't see a problem with it being changed. Even if he were to keep it, he did a poor job of executing it because it blatantly contradicts what was established previously in the arc. Gowasu states that Black is able to use the Time Ring because he is a "Lord of Lords" then later he reveals that he cannot stay fused because he is not a "Lord of Lords." And the participants of a potara fusion having to be Kaioshins doesn't corroborate with Kibitoshin. Kibito was not a Kaioshin and they stay fused for a very long time before unfusing from the Dragon Balls. And again, their fusion was just totally unnecessary and just made things even more convoluted than they already were.

Oh and I forgot to mention the way "Infinite Zamasu" was handled was also a pointless change. Zamasu's physical body was destroyed but he was immortal so he was able to manifest himself in other ways. He was immortal so he could live on despite his physical body being destroyed. Makes sense. Nothing wrong with it. Instead, Toyotaro randomly gives Zamasu the ability to clone himself infinitely for no reason? Served no purpose whatsoever.

[Bergamo]

Goku learning the Hakai
Trunks having Kai-esque healing powers
Black and Zamasu defusing

All of these examples are bad because they aren't particularly believable, don't add to the story in an organic way, and just don't make any sense. And in the case of the 3rd item on this list, it literally blatantly contradicts what was previously established. These are all changes that were completely and totally unnecessary and don't add to the narrative, don't further the plot in a cohesive way,and they are just ridiculous. Gods of Destruction use the Hakai, not random mortals. Kais are born the way they are and can have resulting healing powers, you don't just randomly attain them in Trunks's case.

building up Jiren as being moral and heroic before the tournament just for it to not manifest itself in any way during the tournament.
Eliminating 4 Universes in a matter of 8 pages and depriving us of the development of those Universes and the corresponding fight and character moments that came with those fights.

1. They literally never say that Hakai is a GoD exclusive technique. As far as I'm concerned, Goku just stole Beerus's signature move.
2. Kibito had healing powers because he was an apprentice, so when Teunks became and apprentice he had healing powers too. Zamas was originally a Kaio, yet he could become an apprentice, so why can't Trunks? This also let's Trunks be useful without giving him an unexplained transformation. I think Trunks, a character who restores timelines, getting the ability to restore physically is fitting. Trunks has never been the type of character who wants to get the kill. He calls upon Vegeta and Goku for help because he knows his limitations.
3. This was actually in the outline so...

1. It is never outright explicitly stated, but this is the epitome of an unnecessary change. There was no real reason Goku had to learn the Hakai. It didn't really add anything to the story and it undermines the premise of being a GoD if anybody can use their signature technique. It may not be a blatant contradiction, but it weakens the prestige of being a God of Destruction needlessly and again, it adds absolutely nothing to the story. Again, pointless change.
2. Trunks becoming an apprentice in the first place makes absolutely no sense because he isn't a Kaio and never was a Kaio. It defeats the entire over arching premise of Zamasu purging the mortals if anybody can become a god by "becoming an apprentice." Trunks becoming a Kaio doesn't align with anything ever previously established and contradicts the entire premise of the arc itself. Kaio are supposed to be Gods that oversee things in a particular area, not some mortal that decided to apply for the job. They are BORN that way. Again, a perfect example of an unnecessary change.
3. Ok well I don't particularly care if it was in the outline or not. The anime omitted it and Toriyama approved it. So clearly, Toriyama realized his mistake or didn't see a problem with it being changed. Even if he were to keep it, he did a poor job of executing it because it blatantly contradicts what was established previously in the arc. Gowasu states that Black is able to use the Time Ring because he is a "Lord of Lords" then later he reveals that he cannot stay fused because he is not a "Lord of Lords." And the participants of a potara fusion having to be Kaioshins doesn't corroborate with Kibitoshin. Kibito was not a Kaioshin and they stay fused for a very long time before unfusing from the Dragon Balls. And again, their fusion was just totally unnecessary and just made things even more convoluted than they already were.

Oh and I forgot to mention the way "Infinite Zamasu" was handled was also a pointless change. Zamasu's physical body was destroyed but he was immortal so he was able to manifest himself in other ways. He was immortal so he could live on despite his physical body being destroyed. Makes sense. Nothing wrong with it. Instead, Toyotaro randomly gives Zamasu the ability to clone himself infinitely for no reason? Served no purpose whatsoever.

1. Goku isn't anybody. He is a talented martial artist who studies under Beerus and is just shy of the level of the gods. I thought Goku using Hakai was cool. It's also not really a change as much as it is an addition.
2. Trunks was given powers that are supposed to assist the Lord of Lords. He isn't a God, nor is he training to be one, he was just given privileges that were supposed to help him defeat Babidi.
3. It's not stated that you have to be a Lord of Lords to use the time, it's stated that you're supposed to be a Lord of Lords. To use the time ring you need the earring.

[AnimeNation101]

I dissagree with a lot of what you said (surprise surprise), but I'd be ESATIC if not only do we get no kaioken or evolution BUT A REFRENCE WAS MADE TO THE MANGA VERSION OF EVENTS. YEEEEESSS. Though, what's the favorite of what's going to happen is this movie will only reference parts and have things that were in manga AND anime. That's why I said this movie is an differnt continuity then the tv show. It just only takes place after the show. What's most probable is that:
DBz bog -> rof -> unseen Akira plot outlines for each arc -> movie
Dbs manga -> dbs manga broly arc
Dbs anime -> comes back and does a re tell of the arc for its continuation.
This would make all fans happy. Now let's get to the polar descsions:
Dbs movie is basically influenced a lot by toyotaro manga since Akira really wants to push it. Akira basically writes this movie so toyotaro takes it and just expands it in his manga, instead of change anything. So the movie will have reference to manga, mssj blue exist and such.
Then we get an manga adaption of the arc that's in line with the movie. Then op toei comes back a little while later and either just adapts the manga version of events and subtly retcons all 131 episodes, OR they reboot all of dbs into the manga version so fans can see the "real dbs".
This is an the MOST EXTREME case but I hope.

The other way which is more likely then the manga version is:
Kaioken (and evolution) do appear in film. References are made to the anime as expected, toei comes back and skips the broly arc which would probably get them where toyotaro is. As usual,pass him and leave his manga in the dust. OR they re tell the broly arc in my more detail, maybe use some frames and panels from toyos manga to help the staff with a animation (like they did during the early parts of unvierse 6 arc) but just craft their own story.

Or...lol. Toei tv show never comes back and all we get is movie and the manga. Honestly, I would not mind that. We get a good movie, toyotaro just expands it in his manga. So we get a movie continuity and manga contiguity.

Honestly, from a to D in options for most likely.
A (movie is plain for both mediums. So both mediums re tell it to fit their continuation
C (movie is an anime continuation. Reference are made for anime, kaioken most likely appears. We either get a re tell when the tv show comes back or we start at the next point in time)
B (Movies is made for manga take-over. Movie gives nods to manga, anime t. Show comes back and just adapts manga)
D(nuclear for most db fans and all we get is movie events (which MAY be based off the anime though) and the manga events.

Why would a DBS ANIMATED movie be based off of DBS’s promotional manga? Here’s a parallel. The SDBH arcade game is WAY more important and popular than the anime that way made solely to promote it. The promotional stuff will never outshine what they’re promoting. Its the same with DBS. And we already know that this movie isn’t a sequel to the manga because the manga is already gonna get its own adaption of the DBS Broly movie. The manga is already making its own sequel so the animated movie can’t be its sequel.

The dbs manga isn't "promotional" for the anime. The dbs manga was PROMOTIONAL for the movies, but once universe 6 arc came around. It became it's own stand alone manga. You're acting like the manga is reliant on the anime. Like if the heroes aracadd game fails, so does the anime since that anime is meant to PROMOTE the game, hence why it's short.

The manga is a full Monthly publication manga that does it's own thing, it's not meant to promote anything but it's sponsors, and creators (Akira and toyotaro-not toei).if the manga was mere promotional.
First of all, it'd be AHEAD of the anime (no one is going to care about a sorry promo manga that's behind the show. What base would be attracting?)
And give monthly mini chapter about what's going to happen in the upcoming anime events. It wouldn't be a full manga chapter that does it's entirely own thing...LOOL. Plus toyotaro is stated to be akiras SUCESSOR, he isn't no sorry irrvlant promo mangaka. His manga is just as powerful as supers anime, the only differnce is his manga is not nearly as popular a the anime. But they both hold wait as being canon. Some would argue ...nvm. Let me not...

Manga isn't promotional. It's it own thing. And if Akira really likes toyotaro manga and INSIST the movie be made to promote the manga or have things in the movie that's sort of an knod to toyotaro manga. The movie WILL HAVE IT. And nothing about it won't make sense. Movie is made by Akira so he can do whatever the heck he wants with it. I just think of it as Akira wants this movie to PROMOTE the dbs manga since that will be the future of dragon ball. So movies will have things more in line to dbs manga. So people will start to buy the manga of dbs. Once that happens, anime comes in and adapts toyotaro manga (or reboot all of dbs to the manga version). Then dragon ball is adapated of dbs manga and returns to what it was, before. Akira is an manga artist at heart, so I don't see why he wouldn't use his influence to pass down more spotlight and power to his CHOSEN ONE sucessor through this movie.

The SDBH anime would fail if the SDBH video game failed because it wouldn’t have any more content since the video game is the thing that gives the story. While the DBS manga can survive without the anime, it still wouldn’t exist without the anime either since its an adaption of it.

And here’s your problem. You’re assuming the DBS manga is the “future of Dragon Ball”. Sure it might pass the anime but it can never stay that way. The DBS anime will always be able to catch up to the manga since its on a monthly release. Heck, its literally on V-Jump magazine and that magazine’s core content consistents of only information regarding video/arcade games and the card games based on popular manga. And there are limited numbers of manga titles have been serialized in V Jump. Most of the manga titles in V Jump are the comicalization of the animation and the video/card games. In other words, the DBS manga isn’t a serious manga like Black Clover, My Hero Academia, Naruto, and One Piece that are on Weekly Shonen Jump magazine. The DBS manga’s sales are no where near comparable to that of the series i’ve named because no one really cares about it compared to the anime.

And again, ur assuming that Toriyama wants to promote Toyotaro’s manga with the movie but NOTHING suggests that. There is more stuff against the movie being based off the continuity of the manga. The movie is literally being made by Toriyama and TOEI. Toyotaro has no influence on the movie. So of course Toei, the creators (along with Toriyama) of the DBS anime would follow the anime’s path. Also, i don’t know where you heard this but NO WHERE does it say that Toriyama personally picked out Toyotaro to be his successor. Oh wait! You read it off of DBWiki! Even the link that takes you to saiyansland has a BS article. Toyotaro was hired by Shueisha after he requested to be hired. Toriyama had nothing to do with it. He just went along with it. He likes Toyotaro work. Thats all.

Bottom line. The DBS: Broly movie not a sequel to the DBS manga but it is to the dbs anime since we know that Toei is also making the movie and Toyotaro already plans to have his own adaptation of the story and that will be the manga’s sequel. The DBS manga that WE KNOW will not be the “Future of Dragon Ball”. It will probabaly pass the DBS anime but the way it is now, it won’t sell comparable to the big manga series I’ve named and neither will it overshadow the anime when it comes back because its treated as nothing but a manga adaptation of an anime, unlike regular manga that are the original and have anime adaptations. And then eventually, the anime will pass the manga again. Finally, Toyotaro is not fit for taking the lead of Dragon Ball. He isn’t a good story-teller, seems to have pacing and consistency problems in this writing, and his art isn’t really that dynamic or creative. And again, for the manga to become a serious one that the anime gets based off of, it would need to be moved to Weekly Shonen Jump where there would need to be a new chapter a week. Toyotaro doesn’t have that in him.