Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Saikyo no Senshi]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

[iAnimationLover_]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

You should read the comments on dragon ball super episode 72 preview's lmao


You'll facepalm 24/7 haha

[HeroR]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

People did complain about Toriyama's evolving style. Toriyama talks about how he got letters asking him to go back to the more rounded design of his earlier work. He responded by putting in more angles.

[IGhostUlt]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

People did complain about Toriyama's evolving style. Toriyama talks about how he got letters asking him to go back to the more rounded design of his earlier work. He responded by putting in more angles.

Is this true? Any source?

[HeroR]

Is this true? Any source?

It's in an old interview on this site. However, I don't remember where to find it. Maybe you can asked one of the mobs.

[cuartas]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

In that case, yamamuro style is fine, but I saw you bashing him for the new designs.

I can't take you seriously

[dhaval_dongre]

Do any of you think that the one of the Hit shots from the preview screamed One Piece movie 6. I have never seen One Piece, but I did see some screenshots of it in the past. It also reminded me of some of the Tate inspired Dragon Ball character models that Ajay posted a while back. I also saw some fans and youtubers saying that the animation looked bad. I don't blame them though incase if they have not seen Tate's older works. Because for a person who is relatively unknown to his older and current works, it can be a bit polarizing. An older me would have felt the same. The way Hit and Goku looked in the NEP was very different than how they are usually drawn, so its understandable that for some people it might look like bad art and animation despite that not being the case.

But now, I don't think its bad at all. I have been following this thread for quite a while now and I am more educated than I was before when it came to art and animation. Also, I have no doubt in my mind that they are being conservative on these episodes, so that they can actually focus on the next arc. I think this is the most unfiltered Tate that we might have seen in Super and its a result of Toei trying to be conservative. Some of Tate's work in Super so far has been corrected by Supervisors above him and his artstyle has also been more on model than his usual self. But it looks like for #72 there hasn't been any correction at all, probably because Toei is focusing on the next arc.

Edit: I don't mind them experimenting with new styles for such episodes. I personally don't mind it at all.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

In that case, yamamuro style is fine, but I saw you bashing him for the new designs.

I can't take you seriously

Yamamuro gets criticized cause of his draconian supervision. His designs don't allow fluid animation, unless someone like Tate or Shida completely ignores it and do their own thing, so he gets criticized not bashed. Yeah, sometimes I may have gone too far but my point still stands about Yamamuro's designs being too mechanical and not allowing fluid movement. I'm not the only one, am I?

Forget fan opinions, Kameda Yoshimichi(Mob Psycho 100 character designer and superstar key animator) criticized him too for the very same reason. Are you going to say now that Kameda's opinion is worthless too? Satou Masaki and Eguchi Hisashi, two animators who have worked with Yamamuro criticized him as well. You can't take me seriously, but you can atleast take 3 professional animators opinion seriously, right?

If that's not enough, go to any sakuga community, the community that focuses on animation and see for yourself what a joke Yamamuro is.

[dbs fanboy]

Damn, Internet is hell today, a lot of bash for ep 72. I came here to see more positivity but it just doesn't end
Also, saying that if a lot of people dislike Tate's work means that he's work is pretty shitty it's pretty much ad populum and it doesn't really count as an argument

[Miracles]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

No it is quality and traditional and what makes Dragonball good.
I am talking classic Dragonball art. When TOEI was great with it.

[Amir]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

Another bad excuse, he evolved his style you say? How is that evolving when everything other than the motion itself looks bad? If you put those characters in different clothes and colors you won't be able to tell if it's Hit and Goku.

Also it's not like the NEP has some awesome choreography with well animated movements. If it were that way then it's still fine I guess, but it's not. When Goku attacks Hit, the facial expressions don't change at all thus making Goku look like a lifeless zombie and it can't be taken seriously.

[Avok]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

Another bad excuse, he evolved his style you say? How is that evolving when everything other than the motion itself looks bad? If you put those characters in different clothes and colors you won't be able to tell if it's Hit and Goku.

Also it's not like the NEP has some awesome choreography with well animated movements. If it were that way then it's still fine I guess, but it's not. When Goku attacks Hit, the facial expressions don't change at all thus making Goku look like a lifeless zombie and it can't be taken seriously.

What about this?
https://youtu.be/ze4_V-s17o4?t=1m45s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcZN650f3qU

Not to mention the awesome cuts in the Trunks arc.

While I personally enjoy the somewhat stiff but well directed and impactul scenes like this (and I feel Super is lacking them), Tate's style generally produces dynamic and interesting scenes. The ugly colors and the annoying blur that they add all over the place doesn't help that much though.

[Majin Jator]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but...for those proficient in spanish, here's a short interview to Masaki Satō:

http://www.hobbyconsolas.com/reportajes ... ador-84308

[kinisking]

When your ningen of a brother doesn't understandythe beauty of Tate..

[Amir]

There's no permanent Dragon Ball style. Art evolves. Toriyama's style did too and I don't see everyone raging over it. Tate has evolved his style and whether you like it or not, it is appreciated which is why he continues to get work and is trusted with the most crucial episodes. The fact that some people want to confine Dragon Ball to one particular style is disgusting.

Another bad excuse, he evolved his style you say? How is that evolving when everything other than the motion itself looks bad? If you put those characters in different clothes and colors you won't be able to tell if it's Hit and Goku.

Also it's not like the NEP has some awesome choreography with well animated movements. If it were that way then it's still fine I guess, but it's not. When Goku attacks Hit, the facial expressions don't change at all thus making Goku look like a lifeless zombie and it can't be taken seriously.

What about this?
https://youtu.be/ze4_V-s17o4?t=1m45s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcZN650f3qU

Not to mention the awesome cuts in the Trunks arc.

While I personally enjoy the somewhat stiff but well directed and impactul scenes like this (and I feel Super is lacking them), Tate's style generally produces dynamic and interesting scenes. The ugly colors and the annoying blur that they add all over the place doesn't help that much though.

First off, I was talking about episode 72.
These look pretty decent. I like the Vegeta vs Hit one even though like always it had bad art shots which lowers the quality of the animation, but I like the facial expressions, it was pretty good actually. That double kick was dope. He did good.
I have mixed feelings about the Goku vs Vegeta one because it was so well paced with nice choreography but their faces were...you know what I think about them. Over time I started to enjoy this cut more and more, it's good, could have been great without the bad art.

[Avok]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but...for those proficient in spanish, here's a short interview to Masaki Satō:

http://www.hobbyconsolas.com/reportajes ... ador-84308

It doesn't say much, just some stories of Maeda and the Dragon Ball days. However, on questions 6 and 7 (and bear with me and my not-so-great English):

6.
Interviewer:
What's your opinion on DBS, animation and plot-wise?

Sato:
I'm not involved in Super, but it doesn't give me the same feeling as the series we worked on. Back then, Dragon Ball was pretty much an unknown series. I read the volumes to get to know the Dragon Ball world (and I re-read them from time to time and I still like it).

I don't know much about Super, but since it doesn't come from a manga there isn't a concret guide to create the anime episodes. Aside from Goku and Vegeta, who have become extremely powerful, looks like the side characters aren't up to par [with them or in terms of characterisation?]. It is also dificult to know if Goku and Vegeta are even in terms of strength. Since nor me or my friends are involved in the project, it is difficult to know what the future holds for Super.

7.
Interviewer:
Would you like to work on DBS and please millions of fans who miss your work?

Sato:
Yes! I never thought I would join the community of Dragon Ball creators again. However, I don't think I have anything to offer to a new Dragon Ball. I get the impression that Super's expression shows that it has a different touch [or feeling?], more foreign. I think this affects the drawing/art style. As of right now, I don't have any hopes of working on Super.

[nite_jay]

To me it sounds like he'd be interested in working with them, but he doesn't really like the direction of the show so far.

[The Patrolman]

Tate directed my favorite episode (11). I dont get the hate

[kinisking]

To me it sounds like he'd be interested in working with them, but he doesn't really like the direction of the show so far.

I don't think he dislikes it, I think he just thinks it feels different.

[A Man named RJ]

It doesn't matter how fluid Tate's animation is, if the characters look derpy as hell. You can't take the scene seriously. It takes you out of it. I don't know why Toei keeps giving him cuts when he doesn't have enough time. Either give him time and do it right, or don't do it at all.

same, tate just don't fit in dragonball.
If tate wanna shine in this anime, then DBS has to become a "modern" anime.
Something like no muscles, almost 0 wrinkles in the clothes, dots instead of noses, no definition in hands, poor shading, flat shapes, etc.
In other words, dragon ball has to become a generic anime of 21st century, of course there's exceptions to the rule (including DBS fortunatelly), but this is definitelly telling tate style can't fit in this anime.
If people keeps bashing tate since this anime aired, then something wrong has to be happening with tate, instead of blaming people for their lack of knowledge, this anime was made for the masses after all
The new pokemon sun and moon might be a suitable anime for his talents

You come back with this same straw-man every time Tate appears on this show. Every time you've spoken it's been about how Dragon Ball's style guide should be set in stone (despite how much it's changed over the years) and now you're saying that it should look like a "Generic" anime? You just strawmanned the "modern anime" stereotype when ever since 2013 we've been getting cleaner, and cleaner, and flasier, and impressive animation

YuYu Hakusho
One-punch Man.
Mob Psycho 100
Attack on Titan
Soul Eater
Full Metal Alchemist both 2003, and 2009
FLCL
anything by Trigger

All of these shows do what Dragon ball Super refuses to do. They modernized, and broke the mold. Your argument was debunked like 100 pages ago, dude, by me.

are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell me, and any other person on this board who pays even a semblance of attention to animation, that those shows are stylistically generic? No.

Modern =/= generic by any stretch of the imagination.

and being made "for the masses" doesn't mean you cant break the mold. the titles I highlighted did all of these things.