Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[TonyTheTiger]

What I find interesting is, for all the complaints about how Superman is so inconsistent and subject to the whims of writers (disqualifying his feats, I guess?), there's so much wild mass guessing as to Goku's upper limit in GT to "prove" he can win which is kind of doing the same thing Superman is being accused of. Wiz and Boomstick made sure to keep Goku to his provable feats and numbers. Superman was put under the same restriction. I don't see the problem.

And it's not like there's fuzzy math, either. Given how high Superman's numbers are, I can't conceive of any calculations, using any criteria, that could get Goku anywhere near high enough to cause doubt in the results. Let's say GT base Goku is equal to Z-era Super Saiyan 3. So, for his strength, we take the 40 tons at base in Z, multiply it by 400 (SSJ3 multiplier), and we get 16,000 tons. Now we make that his base strength and multiply it by 4000 to reach his Super Saiyan 4 strength to get 64,000,000 tons. He's still 1,040,625,000,000 times weaker than Superman. How in the world is any feat from GT or any math whatsoever going to prove Goku is over one trillion times stronger than what I just calculated? You have the same problem with the durability rating.

Hell, let's even use Gogeta and assume Goku and Vegeta are straight up multiplied together. Assuming Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta has the same strength as Goku, 64,000,000 X 64,000,000 gives us 4,096,000,000,000,000 tons. Still about 16,260 times weaker than Superman's 66.6 quintillion.

Am I missing something? Is there any way to measure Goku's power (that doesn't involve random guessing) that puts him anywhere close to Clark's numbers?

[Hellspawn28]

Some fans on the Internet need to chill out. I personally hate it when some DBZ fans can't get over that there are characters above DBZ. In the past 10+ years of posting on DBZ forums, I have seen fans will nit pick things to death and make up things in order for Goku to win.

[goku the krump dancer]

Like others have said, I expected Superman to take this "W". Sure I'm disappointed that Goku lost but I can at least say that members of ScrewAttack tried to be as fair possible being that a lot of things in Dragon Ball are vague as hell.

That being said, as well done as the video is, the final out come (or at least how Goku was killed) can still be argued.

I do agree with the final statement about Superman with the way his stories have been written, Superman becomes as strong as he needs be. In fact I always felt that way when it came to Superman, so disregarding Pre-Crisis and all that jazz was kinda pointless since that statement seals the deal anyway.

[Kingdom Heartless]

I figured it was over as soon as Superman was sent to the sun.

Ignoring the outcome, I would have preferred it if Goku had fought in a way that I can actually imagine him fighting. Throwing Taio-Kens casually into the mix doesn't seem like him. Neither does using telekinesis or trying to read Superman's mind mid-battle.

Still, it was enjoyable and kept me guessing for a while.

[dbzfan7]

What I find interesting is, for all the complaints about how Superman is so inconsistent and subject to the whims of writers (disqualifying his feats, I guess?), there's so much wild mass guessing as to Goku's upper limit in GT to "prove" he can win which is kind of doing the same thing Superman is being accused of. Wiz and Boomstick made sure to keep Goku to his provable feats and numbers. Superman was put under the same restriction. I don't see the problem.

And it's not like there's fuzzy math, either. Given how high Superman's numbers are, I can't conceive of any calculations, using any criteria, that could get Goku anywhere near high enough to cause doubt in the results. Let's say GT base Goku is equal to Z-era Super Saiyan 3. So, for his strength, we take the 40 tons at base in Z, multiply it by 400 (SSJ3 multiplier), and we get 16,000 tons. Now we make that his base strength and multiply it by 4000 to reach his Super Saiyan 4 strength to get 64,000,000 tons. He's still 1,040,625,000,000 times weaker than Superman. How in the world is any feat from GT or any math whatsoever going to prove Goku is over one trillion times stronger than what I just calculated? You have the same problem with the durability rating.

When I calculated those numbers I just put it there because they forgot to add those, I said they would not affect the outcome of the match, but they still should have added those numbers. I calculated the numbers if it was base or SSJ that equaled SSJ3 Goku Z.

[TonyTheTiger]

Again, I do think there are several scenarios in which Goku could have won, keep in mind there's always an if, and never an absolute answer on this kind of fights. But the way this match was presented, Superman won, without any doubt in my mind.

I feel like this is one of those issues where we have to consider the scenario. Could Goku kill Superman somehow? Sure. But so could Batman or Lex Luthor. Doesn't mean they'll be able to do it in a spontaneous fist fight, which is what Death Battle is.

[mysticboy]

I'll be damned if that wasn't a good fight. Sun dipping was Kal-El's only though imo :p

[dario03]

Some fans on the Internet need to chill out. I personally hate it when some DBZ fans can't get over that there are characters above DBZ. In the past 10+ years of posting on DBZ forums, I have seen fans will nit pick things to death and make up things in order for Goku to win.

My favorite is Goku/Gogeta/Vegetto vs The Beyonder (heck they usually even say it's pre-retconned Beyonder)

[dbzfan7]

Some fans on the Internet need to chill out. I personally hate it when some DBZ fans can't get over that there are characters above DBZ. In the past 10+ years of posting on DBZ forums, I have seen fans will nit pick things to death and make up things in order for Goku to win.

My favorite is Goku/Gogeta/Vegetto vs The Beyonder (heck they usually even say it's pre-retconned Beyonder)

Beyonder wins in a landslide

Also how can they say Supes is as strong as he needs to be in the reflection and say he is consistent. That makes no sense.That is the definition of inconsistency. Hats off to an awesome Death Battle. Besides the Goku strength error (which wouldn't make a difference in the fight), and that weird Dr. Gero bomb idea which makes little sense to me since he was wrong about goku's progress, it seemed accurate.

[Jackal puFF]

That was really enjoyable! Loved the whole teamfourstar cameo, animation, and story. Goku gave one hell of a try. I kind of wanted a Superman to wish him back with the dragonballs at the end lol. But yeah that was great.

[InfernalVegito]

What I just outright loved about it, even though it was just a fanmade animation, is the choreography of the fight. Heck, if we could see something like that in the actual show.

[Gonstead]

That was really enjoyable! Loved the whole teamfourstar cameo, animation, and story. Goku gave one hell of a try. I kind of wanted a Superman to wish him back with the dragonballs at the end lol. But yeah that was great.

They still got Namek : P

[Sinestro]

-Voice lines were dreadful at times. Are they purposefully trying to be cheesy?

Both voices are used in comedic and popular, web shows.

(I liked them, as I'm familiar with both of them)

[dbzfan7]

Supes has different versions of himself throughout the years I don't remember them all, but to cheer up some fans Goku would beat STAS, Golden age, and JL/JLU Supes since they are massively depowered from the mainstream comics.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

What I find interesting is, for all the complaints about how Superman is so inconsistent and subject to the whims of writers (disqualifying his feats, I guess?), there's so much wild mass guessing as to Goku's upper limit in GT to "prove" he can win which is kind of doing the same thing Superman is being accused of. Wiz and Boomstick made sure to keep Goku to his provable feats and numbers. Superman was put under the same restriction. I don't see the problem.

Sums my thoughts exactly. The two did the best they could and justified their conclusions well, even though the winner really was a bit of a given. Really did come down to "The man who can break any limit" versus "The man built with no limits".

On the brightside, they did give us some Goku guesstimation numbers to throw around, as I know they already have been without looking at the mess.

[Gonstead]

Looking at It'sJustSomeRandomGuy's new video, this comment chain appeared.

After the fight Superman stands in the vast expanse that used to be Earth. The "rage" effects of Death Battle are wearing off and all of his morals/personality return. He realizes what he's done and the billions of lives that have been destroyed by his and Goku's reckless behavior. Just as he's about to scream out in anger "Angel Goku" appears to him from the next world.

"Wow!" says Goku. "That was an awesome fight! You're much more powerful than I ever would have thought."

Superman stares off blankly in remorse over the lives lost. "T-the people..." he replies sadly.

"Oh, are you worried about the Earth? No need. I have friends who can use the Dragon Balls to bring everyone back and make it like nothing ever happened. Everything will be fine."

"What are you talking about?!" Superman replies angrily.

"Yeah!" says Goku. "We do this a lot... believe me."

Superman remains skeptical but the two travel to Namek and summon the Namekian dragon who restores Earth and all of the people there as well as Goku. Superman is relived that this is possible and the two legendary warriors form an amazing bond, vowing to train together from that day forward to ensure no harm will ever come to the universe.

Millions of years later, the ultimate destruction of the universe is at hand. An evil unlike any ever conceived is on its way. Learning of this, Goku, now bonded with the Dragon Balls, calls on the only other being in the universe powerful enough to help him take on this evil. Traveling to Earth's sun, he awakens Superman Prime and the two prepare for their most amazing adventure ever!

Thought it was pretty funny : P

[Fulicer]

Overall it was a really good video. There were some nice touches, like the mind-reading portion. And the voice-acting is pretty damn good, on-par with stuff from professional voice actors. I loved MasakoX and ItsJustSomeRandomGuy's voices. The build up toward the end was awesome.

Although I like Goku more, I don't think he could have beaten Superman in a spontaneous battle. Superman's strength, speed, and durability feats are unreal in comparison -- so even if he prepared for it, Goku would probably not have prevailed. A few comments:

--I was ok with most of the dub cutscenes with Z, even though I didn't like the dub's script. Still they should have used the Kai dub for Goku's "I am" speech. I don't need to be reminded by the "Allied to good, nightmare to you!" scene, ugh...bad translation if you want to be "accurate" relative to the original manga.
--The video player on their site is quite terrible...doesn't seem to cache bits of the video that loaded before. The youtube version will likely be way better. Not sure why it automatically switches to HD when I make it fullscreen. It was slowing down when the fight started due to buffering issues. This makes me NOT want to take Youtube for granted.

--Superman seemed to have just punching (i.e. one-dimensional) in his striking arsenal, I expected something a bit more varied since he's big on martial arts. His over-head smash attack that sent Goku crashing into the earth was nice, though.
--Is Superman strong as Screw Attack's says without dipping into the sun or being really close to it? This is in relation to the numbers that they crunched. If that's the case then in Supes would have probably knocked Goku unconscious before the fight escalated (in reality, that is -- not in a Death Battle). And that Heat Vision lobotomy sounds nasty...I don't know how Goku could defend against that.

[Saiga]

I'll be damned if that wasn't a good fight. Sun dipping was Kal-El's only though imo :p

Did you get the player to work, or is it uploaded to youtube now?

[mysticboy]

I'll be damned if that wasn't a good fight. Sun dipping was Kal-El's only though imo :p

Did you get the player to work, or is it uploaded to youtube now?

It worked. I just had to restart my browser.

[Bussani]

Well, I can't say I agree with all their number crunching, and there were some other things that felt a bit off to me (Goku eating a senzu using telekinesis, or nyoi'bo being able to hurt Superman because "it's magic"), but it's the conclusion I was expecting, and it was a pretty fun ride.

Goku could just blow-up the sun in the other realms

I'm fairly sure that would lead to his own death before it would affect Superman significantly.

Like someone already said, Superman in-of-himself is pretty much 'ultimate' in every way, sadly - which is the primary reason I'm not fond of him.

I don't want to sound like I'm accusing you of anything--because I'm not--but people tend to say this kind of thing when they haven't read good Superman books (or any at all). Maybe it's just not your thing and you're not interested, but I'd recommend checking some out. You might be surprised.

MarcFBR once put it like this: you like Superman when you're a kid; as you get older, you start to think he's boring because he's so powerful; but if you're lucky, when you're older, you'll read some of the better stories and realize what it's really all about. I guess I sort of went through those phases myself, except I was never a big fan of Superman even when I was a kid.