Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

No at the time Frieza started using 50% of his power, Goku had yet to actually use the Kaioken.

Goku's power level was 3 million and Frieza was about equal to him. Eventually he decided he'd had enough and he increased his power to 60 million. That is an overly excessive amount to deal with someone at only 3 million. Why not just use 10%?

So maybe Beerus' 10% was vastly more than required the same.

[Hugo Boss]

No at the time Freeza started using 50% of his power, Goku had yet to actually use the Kaioken.

Goku's power level was 3 million and Freeza was about equal to him. Eventually he decided he'd had enough and he increased his power to 60 million. That is an overly excessive amount to deal with someone at only 3 million. Why not just use 10%?

So maybe Beerus' 10% was vastly more than required the same.

Yeah, Freeza somehow calculated that even Goku's hidden strength was low enough that only using 50% would still be a easy victory. Seems like a safeguard estimation. Vegeta could be nowhere near Beerus' 10% if the Hakaishin is that good with estimations.

[LightBing]

No at the time Freeza started using 50% of his power, Goku had yet to actually use the Kaioken.

Goku's power level was 3 million and Freeza was about equal to him. Eventually he decided he'd had enough and he increased his power to 60 million. That is an overly excessive amount to deal with someone at only 3 million. Why not just use 10%?

So maybe Beerus' 10% was vastly more than required the same.

Yeah, Freeza somehow calculated that even Goku's hidden strength was low enough that only using 50% would still be a easy victory. Seems like a safeguard estimation. Vegeta could be nowhere near Beerus' 10% if the Hakaishin is that good with estimations.

I think Freeza made that calculation when Goku escaped his ball prison attack(whats it's name?). Goku probably used Kaioken to survive.

[ekrolo2]

No at the time Freeza started using 50% of his power, Goku had yet to actually use the Kaioken.

Goku's power level was 3 million and Freeza was about equal to him. Eventually he decided he'd had enough and he increased his power to 60 million. That is an overly excessive amount to deal with someone at only 3 million. Why not just use 10%?

So maybe Beerus' 10% was vastly more than required the same.

Freeza's got shitty power control which probably means he only knows how to increase it by some amounts he's got the hang of. Beerus I don't think would resort to using more power to best someone than he felt necessary. I mean Goku pretty much goes all out after the cave fight and Beerus STILL refused to use anything over 70% of his power.

[LightBing]

I said I wasn't using numbers until the arc is over, but couldn't resist.

Some notes:
- I believe Goku predicted Beerus to have much more power than the one displayed against him.
- The reduced multipliers for SSJ forms in fusions, are a consequence of the base form acquiring a lot of the power Super Saiyan brings forth.

Fusion:
SSJ - Base x4
SSJ3 - Base x8

DB Super: BoG Arc

Spoiler:

Whis - 15 (1500)
Beerus - 10 (1000)
70% Beerus - 7 (700)
SSJG Goku - 6 (600)
SSJ Goku (After losing SSJG) - 5,60 (560)
80% SSJG Goku - 4,80 (480)
Predicted Beerus (by Goku) - 4 (400)
SSJ3 Vegetto - 3,20 (320)
SSJ Vegetto - 1,60 (160)
10% Beerus - 1 (100)
Gohan Boo - 0,92 (92)
Gotenks Boo - 0,80 (80)
Mutated Vegeta - 0,75 (75)
Gohan - 0,52 (52)
SSJ3 Gotenks - 0,40 (40)
Base Vegetto - 0,40 (40)
Super Boo - 0,37 (37)
SSJ3 Goku - 0,20 (20)
SSJ Gotenks - 0,20 (20)
Pure Boo - 0,19 (19)
SSJ2 Vegeta - 0,10 (10)
SSJ2 Goku - 0,10 (10)
Mr. Boo - 0,08 (8)
Base Gotenks - 0,05 (5)
Piccolo - 0,03 (3)

[MaGyunia]

I said last week I wasn't going to use numbers, and I'll keep that position, I'll just generate an another, slightly updated personal list (and this time I'll go beyond the Majin Buu arc and DBSuper and include some warriors from the Cell arc):

1 - Whis
2 - Beerus
3 - Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Goku
4 - Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Vegeta
5 - Golden Freeza
6 - Base Goku with abilities and power of SSJG
7 - Base Vegeta with abilities and power of SSJG
8 - Super Vegitto (hypothetical Super Saiya-jin 3 transformation)
9 - Super Vegitto (hypothetical Super Saiya-jin 2 transformation)
10 - Super Vegitto (Super Saiya-jin)
11 - Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks and Goten absorbed)
12 - Super Buu (Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed)
13 - Vegeta (Super Saiya-jin 2 with power boost against Beerus)
14 - Ultimate Gohan
15 - Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks
16 - Super Buu (Piccolo, Trunks and Goten absorbed)
17 - Super Buu
18 - Kid Buu
19 - Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku
20 - Super Saiya-jin Gotenks
21 - Evil Buu
22 - Fat Majin Buu
23 - Super Saiya-jin 2 Goku
24 - Super Saiya-jin 2 Vegeta
25 - Super Saiya-jin 2 teen Gohan
26 - Super Saiya-jin 2 adult Gohan
27 - Cell (Perfect, after explosion)
28 - Dabura
29 - Strongest Kaioshin
30 - Dai Kaioshin
31 - Kibitoshin
32 - Female Kaioshin
33 - Moustached Kaioshin
34 - Kaioshin
35 - Cell (Perfect, using all of his power)
36 - Cell (Perfect)
37 - Super Saiya-jin Full Power Goku
38 - Super Saiya-jin Full Power teen Gohan
39 - Super Saiya-jin Dai San Dankai Mirai no Trunks
40 - Super Saiya-jin Dai San Dankai Goku
41 - Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai Vegeta
42 - Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai Goku
43 - Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai Mirai no Trunks
44 - Piccolo
45 - Cell (second stage)
46 - Cell (first stage after absorbing tens of thousands of humans)
47 - #16
48 - Piccolo (after fusing with Kami)
49 - #17
50 - #18
51 - Cell Juniors
52 - Cell (first stage when he first appears)
53 - #17 (future version)
54 - #18 (future version)
55 - Super Saiya-jin Vegeta
56 - Super Saiya-jin Goku (against #19)
57 - Super Saiya-jin Goku (against Mirai no Trunks)
58 - Super Saiya-jin Mirai no Trunks
59 - Super Saiya-jin Gohan
60 - Super Saiya-jin Mirai no Gohan
61 - Super Saiya-jin Trunks
62 - Super Saiya-jin Goten
63 - Super Saiya-jin Goku (against Freeza)
64 - Freeza (against Mirai no Trunks)
65 - Freeza (using 100% of his power)

The way anyone approaches their own lists differs, but what matters is that at the end we all have a better idea on where each warrior introduced in DBSuper/BoG/Fukkatsu no F stands by adding them to the Majin Buu arc levels of power.

I've deliberately kept off a few warriors or some of their stages from potentially canon Movies, and obviously non-canon warriors, like Super Saiya-jin Gogeta, Brolly, #13, Cooler, Super Saiya-jin Bardock, Janenba or Hatchiyakku).

Not going to get into the gaps between each warrior either, except for a few exceptions not present in the list itself: Base Vegitto is about twice as strong as Ultimate Gohan/Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks/Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku, Whis is about 1,5 of Beerus, Piccolo is just slightly stronger than semi-perfect Cell, adult Super Saiya-jin 2 Gohan is just slightly stronger than Dabura, Super Saiya-jin 2 Vegeta with his rage boost against Beerus is slightly below the two strongest versions of Super Buu but still far below Super Vegitto, and any seen or hypothetical form of Super Vegitto is far below Super Saiya-jin God Goku, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Vegeta, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Vegeta and Golden Freeza, and all of these are just a little over a half of the strength of Beerus, hence about one third of Whis'.

[dbzfan7]

Mr. Satan OHKO's Gohan. So he wasn't bullshitting about being able to beat Cell and Boo. My tier list.

Mr. Satan (Obviously hiding more power)


Whis
Beerus
Godku




10% Beerus
LOLRAGETA







Regular Vegeta
Mr. Boo
Kibitoshin
Base Gotenks
Trunks/Goten
Piccolo
18
Krillin
Tenshinhan
Random Alien from episode 2
Yamcha
Chaozu
Kaio
Elder Kaioshin
Gregory
Bubbles
Chi Chi
Gyumao
Octopus (Vegeta's new nemesis since worms)
Eyebrow Snake
Videl
Bulma
Party dudes of episode 2 (They pushed Vegeta around who is above Gohan, but they are below Bulma as she slapped Beerus)
Mr. Briefs
Mrs. Briefs
Chef (His dishes are powerful)
Old guy with ring (Piss him off and he'd be stronger than Pilaf and his crew)
Pilaf
Mai
Shuu
Maron
Oracle Fish
Unborn Pan

















Gohan

[Lord Beerus]

Mr. Satan OHKO's Gohan. So he wasn't bullshitting about being able to beat Cell and Boo. My tier list.

Spoiler:

Mr. Satan (Obviously hiding more power)


Whis
Beerus
Godku




10% Beerus
LOLRAGETA







Regular Vegeta
Mr. Boo
Base Gotenks
Trunks/Goten
Piccolo
18
Krillin
Tenshinhan
Yamcha
Chaozu
Chi Chi
Gyumao
Videl
Bulma
Mr. Briefs
Mrs. Briefs
Pilaf
Mai
Shuu
Maron
Unborn Pan







Gohan

Bruh. I'm dead.

I dare someone defy this hierarchy of power. It's too legit.

[Doctor.]

I think Gohan is too high.

[dbzfan7]

I think Gohan is too high.

Well these are fan made tiers. I know I was probably a little too lenient, but a couple episodes later will probably cause Gohan to be lower in the tier. I could always add eyebrow snake and octopus above him.

[Blackstripe]

I think Gohan is too high.

Well these are fan made tiers. I know I was probably a little too lenient, but a couple episodes later will probably cause Gohan to be lower in the tier. I could always add eyebrow snake and octopus above him.

That chef Bulma hired should be near the top too. Whis had a great amount of difficulty resisting his assault on his tastebuds.

[dbzfan7]

I think Gohan is too high.

Well these are fan made tiers. I know I was probably a little too lenient, but a couple episodes later will probably cause Gohan to be lower in the tier. I could always add eyebrow snake and octopus above him.

That chef Bulma hired should be near the top too. Whis had a great amount of difficulty resisting his assault on his tastebuds.

Yeah but that's his cooking skills. Babidi could survive Vegeta's final explosion, though that's his magic rather than raw power. Same with the Chef. Though the Chef may be a cooking wizard which is still more useful than Gohan, so yeah he'd also be above Gohan. I'm still looking into the party dudes of episode 2, as they may have better feats than Gohan.

[Doctor.]

Yeah but that's his cooking skills. Babidi could survive Vegeta's final explosion, though that's his magic rather than raw power. Same with the Chef. Though the Chef may be a cooking wizard which is still more useful than Gohan, so yeah he'd also be above Gohan. I'm still looking into the party dudes of episode 2, as they may have better feats than Gohan.

They knocked Vegeta around. We know Vegeta is stronger than Bulma, so we know that party dudes >/= Bulma > Gohan.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah but that's his cooking skills. Babidi could survive Vegeta's final explosion, though that's his magic rather than raw power. Same with the Chef. Though the Chef may be a cooking wizard which is still more useful than Gohan, so yeah he'd also be above Gohan. I'm still looking into the party dudes of episode 2, as they may have better feats than Gohan.

They knocked Vegeta around. We know Vegeta is stronger than Bulma, so we know that party dudes >/= Bulma > Gohan.

I've updated my list with some more people.

[JoeCapricorn]

Power level speculation on Pan.

I think she might be the youngest Super Saiyan in the series. It even seemed to cause Videl to turn blonde (although that was also partially because of the vast amount of golden glow going on), but the initial energy burst emerged from her womb. That spark came from Pan. Which means she could have become a Super Saiyan before even being born.

The question is, if the dialog mentions five Super Saiyans as being needed for a Super Saiyan God. It could also be possible that being surrounded by other Super Saiyans channeling their ki into Goku would have briefly transformed Pan. Of course, we won't know for sure, since there isn't any ultrasound showing us an embryonic Super Saiyan... but here is my shot in the dark: Pan is either born as a Super Saiyan, or undergoes the transformation at a very young age (younger than Goten).

[MaGyunia]

Power level speculation on Pan.

I think she might be the youngest Super Saiyan in the series. It even seemed to cause Videl to turn blonde (although that was also partially because of the vast amount of golden glow going on), but the initial energy burst emerged from her womb. That spark came from Pan. Which means she could have become a Super Saiyan before even being born.

The question is, if the dialog mentions five Super Saiyans as being needed for a Super Saiyan God. It could also be possible that being surrounded by other Super Saiyans channeling their ki into Goku would have briefly transformed Pan. Of course, we won't know for sure, since there isn't any ultrasound showing us an embryonic Super Saiyan... but here is my shot in the dark: Pan is either born as a Super Saiyan, or undergoes the transformation at a very young age (younger than Goten).

The ritual calls for 5 Saiya-jin, not 5 SUPER Saiya-jin. Videl doesn't turn Super Saiya-jin, you need to be a SAIYA-JIN, or at leas a half-human, half-Saiya-jin hybrid to do that. And I wouldn't count on Pan being a Super Saiya-jin before being even born. She might have the potential to become one even at a young age after she's born, but in order to transform into a Super Saiya-jin you need to possess a lot of power, sapience, training and martial arts experience, I don't see an unborn fetus going Super Saiya-jin, that's just too far-fetched a scenario to me.

I attribute Videl's golden hair to the amount of lighting - especially golden one - going on at the time, to which we can add her natural blue eyes; all put together makes it feel, or rather put, seem that Videl has turned into a Super Saiya-jin, but that's just absolutely impossible.

[Hugo Boss]

Well, Videl's blood is mixed with Pan's, so it's not really impossible for Videl to borrow some of her child's abilities. Her hair turning blonde like the Saiyan dudes seems like something very close to a Super Saiyan. Once Videl gives birth to Pan, she loses those Saiyan's traits, that's how I see.

[Blackstripe]

Well, Videl's blood is mixed with Pan's, so it's not really impossible for Videl to borrow some of her child's abilities. Her hair turning blonde like the Saiyan dudes seems like something very close to a Super Saiyan. Once Videl gives birth to Pan, she loses those Saiyan's traits, that's how I see.

Yeah, something like that. Pan definitely went Super Saiyan.

[nickzambuto]

I think it's a given that Pan will be the youngest Super Saiyan, and very well might be born already a Super Saiyan. The genetic mix of Saiyan and Human blood is shown to create an extremely powerful hybrid; Gohan was born from a Goku who's power level was just over 400, yet Gohan's maximum potential was apparently effortless Super Boo busting. Then we have Goten, who was born from a Mastered Super Saiyan Goku, and at the age of 7 with almost no training or experience of any kind (remember that Goten didn't even know how to fly) his sheer natural power was already enough to transform and land somewhere around Android 18 - Piccolo level. Gohan even said that he would need to start taking his training seriously, or else the kids were going to leave him in the dust. I have no doubt that if Goten underwent Elder Kai's potential unlocking ritual instead of Gohan, he'd be smacking around Super Vegetto as easily as he smacked around that redneck kid at the tournament. I mean think about it, Saiyan/Human hybrid born from BP 400 father has the strength to stomp Super Boo, so Saiyan/Human hybrid born from a Mastered Super Saiyan must be astronomically more powerful than even that.

And THEN we have Pan... oh my goodness, a Saiyan/Human hybrid born from Ultimate Gohan. She and Oob (who was naturally born with the power of Majin Boo so he must have insane potential, like how Freeza was born with a BP of 120 million and could become god level in a few months) are going to lead the next generation into a whole new world of power, vastly outstripping their ancestors and surpassing even Beerus and Whis. I believe that Oob and Pan are going to be the first characters in the franchise with legitimate universal-level power. It's only appropriate, if you ask me. They are both prodigies on an entirely different scale from Gohan/Goten/Freeza, who in turn are prodigies on a different scale from Saiyan Prince Vegeta.

Broly might not be canon, but on a sidenote, I would have him of comparable status to Goten.

[dbzfan7]

And THEN we have Pan... oh my goodness, a Saiyan/Human hybrid born from Ultimate Gohan. She and Oob (who was naturally born with the power of Majin Boo so he must have insane potential, like how Freeza was born with a BP of 120 million and could become god level in a few months) are going to lead the next generation into a whole new world of power, vastly outstripping their ancestors and surpassing even Beerus and Whis. I believe that Oob and Pan are going to be the first characters in the franchise with legitimate universal-level power. It's only appropriate, if you ask me. They are both prodigies on an entirely different scale from Gohan/Goten/Freeza, who in turn are prodigies on a different scale from Saiyan Prince Vegeta.

Dragon Ball seems too scared to move beyond the 10 year gap and so they'll remain as babies forever. Also neither of those 2 may have the most important trait. The stat trinity of importance. So neither will ever be remotely significant.