Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:01 pm

Captain Space wrote: So on an entirely separate note, wasn't South Kaioshin implied to be stronger than Kid Buu? Hence why it had to absorb him? And yet he couldn't pull the Z-Sword, when SSJ Gohan (obviously much weaker than Kid Buu) could? Or am I remembering something wrong?
It was only said he was the strongest of the five Kaioshins. Kid Buu doesn't absorb people just to get stronger, Dai Kaioshin was a victim but he was weaker than even South Kaioshin, and certainly weaker than Buff Boo. I'm not sure every single one of the Kaioshins tried in fact to pull out the Z-sword.
Truhan wrote:Well, it may not count, but my prediction is that South Kaioshin is 2 times stronger than Fat Buu, and 2 times weaker than Kid Buu. Look at this:

Dai Kai - 0.125x
Fat Buu - 1x
South Kai - 2x
Kid Buu - 4x

Kid Buu + South Kai >> 4 * 2 = 8 (Buff Buu)
Buff Buu + Dai Kai >> 8 * 0.125 = 1 (Fat Buu)

If Fat Buu (without anger) were to be as strong as a SSJ2 - hence Vegeta underestimating him, and Gohan saying that he wouldn't be a problem if he could tap onto his anger - and Majin Vegeta was 300.000k, then South Kai would be 600.000k, and Dai Kai less than that (37.500k). Dai Kaioshin's value would be higher than Piccolo's, who could be in the 30.000k range... 10 times stronger than Goku at base. It still won't answer why South Kaioshin couldn't pull the sword... I guess the legend was stronger than his belief that he could, hence having never attempted.
Addition works pretty well for Boo absorption. There's no need to bloat power levels.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Truhan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:26 pm

LightBing wrote:Addition works pretty well for Boo absorption. There's no need to bloat power levels.
Addition and multiplication could be the same thing for Majin Buu. However, you can't make Dai Kaioshin a negative value, hence multiplying Majin Buu's power by less than 1, which is Fat Buu's power divided by 8. As a bonus, here's something else:

1)
Mr. Buu 0.5x
Fat Buu (Angered) = South Kaioshin, because when you deny your Mr. Buu self to assume a stronger version of Fat Buu, you're using South Kaioshin's power. Fat Buu's 1x / Mr. Buu's 0.5x = South Kaioshin's 2x

2)
Evil Buu 8x
Evil Buu is based on Fat Buu (hence the same clothing) without Dai Kaioshin's essence, so when Fat Buu's 1x / Dai Kaioshin's 0.125x = Evil Buu's 8x.

3)
Evil Buu + Mr. Buu >> 8 * 0.5 = 4, which is Super Buu's power multiplier.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Captain Space » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:45 pm

LightBing wrote:
Captain Space wrote: So on an entirely separate note, wasn't South Kaioshin implied to be stronger than Kid Buu? Hence why it had to absorb him? And yet he couldn't pull the Z-Sword, when SSJ Gohan (obviously much weaker than Kid Buu) could? Or am I remembering something wrong?
It was only said he was the strongest of the five Kaioshins. Kid Buu doesn't absorb people just to get stronger, Dai Kaioshin was a victim but he was weaker than even South Kaioshin, and certainly weaker than Buff Boo. I'm not sure every single one of the Kaioshins tried in fact to pull out the Z-sword.
Just seems weird that he'd absorb them if they were basically no threat at all to him. Like, someone weaker than Buu Saga SSJ Gohan's level, against Kid Buu...
Truhan wrote:
LightBing wrote:Addition works pretty well for Boo absorption. There's no need to bloat power levels.
Addition and multiplication could be the same thing for Majin Buu. However, you can't make Dai Kaioshin a negative value, hence multiplying Majin Buu's power by less than 1, which is Fat Buu's power divided by 8. As a bonus, here's something else:
You can absolutely make Dai Kaioshin multiply Buu's power less than 1, because absorbing Dai Kaioshin made Buu weaker.

EDIT: Hold on, you already had that. Never mind. Your wording confused me.
Last edited by Captain Space on Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:50 pm

Truhan wrote:
LightBing wrote:Addition works pretty well for Boo absorption. There's no need to bloat power levels.
Addition and multiplication could be the same thing for Majin Buu. However, you can't make Dai Kaioshin a negative value, hence multiplying Majin Buu's power by less than 1, which is Fat Buu's power divided by 8. As a bonus, here's something else:

1)
Mr. Buu 0.5x
Fat Buu (Angered) = South Kaioshin, because when you deny your Mr. Buu self to assume a stronger version of Fat Buu, you're using South Kaioshin's power. Fat Buu's 1x / Mr. Buu's 0.5x = South Kaioshin's 2x

2)
Evil Buu 8x
Evil Buu is based on Fat Buu (hence the same clothing) without Dai Kaioshin's essence, so when Fat Buu's 1x / Dai Kaioshin's 0.125x = Evil Buu's 8x.

3)
Evil Buu + Mr. Buu >> 8 * 0.5 = 4, which is Super Buu's power multiplier.
Dai Kaioshin is negative value, he weakened Buff Boo.
Here's how I see it.

By order:
Pure Boo- The original
Buff Boo- He adds South Kaioshin and become more by a uncertain amount powerful.
Fat Boo- He absorbs Dai Kaioshin and loses a lot of power, because of the influence from the pure hearted Dai Kaioshin that repressed the evil.
Mr Boo- He's the mix of Dai Kaioshin(mainly) and South Kaioshin together with the influence of Boo's weird influence. It's isn't necessary the addition of both Kaioshin's and I believe because of the passage of time both have been absorbed permanently in Boo's being.
Evil Boo- More than half of Fat Buu power. He's basically the evil nature emerging.
Super Boo- Pure Boo power plus Fat Boo power. In the other variations he adds the power of Gotenks, Gohan and Piccolo.

For reference:
Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”
LightBing wrote:
Captain Space wrote: So on an entirely separate note, wasn't South Kaioshin implied to be stronger than Kid Buu? Hence why it had to absorb him? And yet he couldn't pull the Z-Sword, when SSJ Gohan (obviously much weaker than Kid Buu) could? Or am I remembering something wrong?


It was only said he was the strongest of the five Kaioshins. Kid Buu doesn't absorb people just to get stronger, Dai Kaioshin was a victim but he was weaker than even South Kaioshin, and certainly weaker than Buff Boo. I'm not sure every single one of the Kaioshins tried in fact to pull out the Z-sword.
Captain Space wrote:Just seems weird that he'd absorb them if they were basically no threat at all to him.


He was a mindless monster.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Truhan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:53 pm

LightBing wrote:Dai Kaioshin is negative value, he weakened Buff Boo.
But he can't have a power level below 0, which is negative, so addition doesn't work. However, multiplying by less than 1 doesn't make Dai Kaioshin's power level negative, because 0.125 (which is 1/8) is still a positive multiplier. This multiplier still takes from Majin Buu's power level, believe me.
Captain Space wrote:EDIT: Hold on, you already had that. Never mind. Your wording confused me.
Sorry about that.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:03 pm

Truhan wrote:
LightBing wrote:Dai Kaioshin is negative value, he weakened Buff Boo.
But he can't have a power level below 0, which is negative, so addition doesn't work. However, multiplying by less than 1 doesn't make Dai Kaioshin's power level negative, because 0.125 (which is 1/8) is still a positive multiplier. This multiplier still takes from Majin Buu's power level, believe me.
He's the exception. His power is irrelevant, he weakened Boo because he suppressed his evilness which accounted for a power loss and chance in personality.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Truhan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:15 pm

LightBing wrote:
Truhan wrote:
LightBing wrote:Dai Kaioshin is negative value, he weakened Buff Boo.
But he can't have a power level below 0, which is negative, so addition doesn't work. However, multiplying by less than 1 doesn't make Dai Kaioshin's power level negative, because 0.125 (which is 1/8) is still a positive multiplier. This multiplier still takes from Majin Buu's power level, believe me.
He's the exception. His power is irrelevant, he weakened Boo because he suppressed his evilness which accounted for a power loss and chance in personality.
Oh, please... You're arguing math with semantics taken at face value. I'll explain again:

Buff Buu's Multiplier = 8 times Fat Buu's.
Dai Kaioshin's Multiplier = 8 times less Fat Buu's.

Fat Buu's power level = 5.000k (for example)

8 times more than 5.000k is 40.000k ( 5.000 * 8 )
8 times less than 5.000 is 625k ( 5.000 / 8 )

Being 625k times less than 40.000k (40.000k / 625k) is the same as being 64 times ( 8 * 8 ) more than Dai Kaioshin's power level. When you want to multiply things, you say a number times more, and when you want to divide things, you say a number times less. To take 0 power from someone is to be multiply by 1.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:57 pm

I misunderstood, sorry for the redundant discussion.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by h0kuten » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:01 pm

Where does your '8x' multiplier for Buff Buu come from? What does it stem from and where is your source or evidence to prove it's '8'?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Truhan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:20 pm

We're in the Fan-Created Works section, therefore it's an estimate with round and even numbers. I'm not going to engage in fact whoring the hell out of Dragon Ball, but I can tell you that this works.
Last edited by Truhan on Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:28 pm

You guys think that Kid Boo is the weakest Majin or Mr. Boo?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:32 pm

Noah wrote:You guys think that Kid Boo is the weakest Majin or Mr. Boo?
Innocent Boo. He's less than half of Fat Boo, who's slightly weaker than Pure Boo.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:40 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Noah wrote:You guys think that Kid Boo is the weakest Majin or Mr. Boo?
Innocent Boo. He's less than half of Fat Boo, who's slightly weaker than Pure Boo.
I agree.

From weakest to strongest:
Mr.Boo
Evil Boo
Majin Boo
Pure Boo
Super Boo
Super Boo + Piccolo and the kids
Buff Boo
Super Boo + Gotenks and Piccolo
Super Boo + Gohan, Piccolo and the kids

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Truhan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:03 pm

Here's my estimate, again.

Buff Buu (8x) = Evil Buu (8x) > Kid Buu (4x) = Super Buu (4x) > South Kaioshin (2x) > Fat Buu (1x) > Mr. Buu (0.5x) > Dai Kaioshin (0.125x)

Does it work any other way?

[Kid Buu is as strong as Buff Buu version] - based on the "fact" that he shape-shifted.

Buff Buu (4x) = Kid Buu (4x) = Evil Buu (4x) > Super Buu (2x) = Fat Buu (2x) > South Kaioshin (1x) > Mr. Buu (0.5x) = Dai Kaioshin (0.5x)

Kid Buu + South Kaioshin = Buff Buu >> 4 * 1 = 4
Buff Buu + Dai Kaioshin = Fat Buu >> 4 * 0.5 = 2
Fat Buu - Dai Kaioshin = Evil Buu >> 2 / 0.5 = 4
Evil Buu + Mr. Buu = Super Buu >> 4 * 0.5 = 2
Super Buu - Mr. Buu = Buff Buu >> 2 / 0.5 = 4
Buff Buu - South Kaioshin = Kid Buu >> 4 / 1 = 4

Now, let's see some inconsistencies:
- Piccolo said that Super Buu was greater in everything compared to the last the kids had seen of Majin Buu, which was Fat Buu. He could be talking about Mr. Buu, but there was no point in mentioning him to the kids if they didn't see or sense him.
- Evil Buu absorbed Mr. Buu, and then Mr. Buu was taken from Super Buu. Did Super Buu turn into Evil Buu again? No, but what would Vegeta take then? Perhaps if Mr. Buu's other version was taken instead (Fat Buu), but using math that wouldn't be correct.
- It would be a stretch to say that Evil Buu could shape shift into Buff Buu almost instantly and then into Kid Buu, without any power loss, but that's not what we saw.
- Last, but not the least, you can't make a Mr. Buu by joining Kid Buu and Dai Kaioshin, because 4 * 0.5 != 0.5

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Captain Space » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:46 pm

LightBing wrote:
From weakest to strongest:
Mr.Boo
Evil Boo
Majin Boo
Pure Boo
Super Boo
Super Boo + Piccolo and the kids
Buff Boo
Super Boo + Gotenks and Piccolo
Super Boo + Gohan, Piccolo and the kids
I agree with this list, yeah. (I mean, Buff Buu could be either stronger or weaker than Buucolo, but stronger seems more likely)
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:37 pm

So, I have decided to actually make a power level list for the newest movie. Everyone says it's a screwball mess of contradictory statements. But, really, it's actually internally consistent if you don't try to make stuff up and shove things where they don't belong. Observe:
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:13 am

^Good one Random :lol:
I did the entirety of DBZ based on the 1.3 million line, but it became really ridiculous!
This one is better and interestingly enough we both end up with the same levels for Whis, Beerus and SSGSS Goku, but that's a given, when you try to make the 6/10/15 gap fit.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by h0kuten » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:05 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:So, I have decided to actually make a power level list for the newest movie. Everyone says it's a screwball mess of contradictory statements. But, really, it's actually internally consistent if you don't try to make stuff up and shove things where they don't belong. Observe:
Those levels are incorrect.

Whiss states a duo of Goku & Vegeta can fight and maybe defeat Beerus. Promotional material also suggests its a battle surpassing gods. The only 2 gods we seen were Beersu 70% & Goku SSJG.

Beerus 10
Frieza 8
Goku SSJG SS 7.5
Vegeta SSJG SS 7.2
Goku SSJG 6

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:00 am

They still work with Goku and Vegeta being more powerful than Beerus' half strength. Also, the promotional material doesn't have to be definitive, there are elements inside the movie that may suggest otherwise.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:45 am

dbgtFO wrote:^Good one Random :lol:
I did the entirety of DBZ based on the 1.3 million line, but it became really ridiculous!
This one is better and interestingly enough we both end up with the same levels for Whis, Beerus and SSGSS Goku, but that's a given, when you try to make the 6/10/15 gap fit.
Yeah, there are only so many places you can out them with Freeza's explicitly stated level of 1.3 million. While I don't think it works for all of DB, I think the movie itself paints a consistent picture if you don't try to bend it into having high power levels to fit with the anime or manga. Freeza thinks 1.3 million is enough to surpass Buu, he never says he underestimated the gains he'd make in those 4 months (he'd definitely brag if that were the case, or at least note it), Zarbon-level fighters are considered too strong for anyone below SS to handle, a random animal can kill guys who give the humans trouble, one of them dies from a rock falling on him, the list goes on.
h0kuten wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:So, I have decided to actually make a power level list for the newest movie. Everyone says it's a screwball mess of contradictory statements. But, really, it's actually internally consistent if you don't try to make stuff up and shove things where they don't belong. Observe:
Those levels are incorrect.

Whiss states a duo of Goku & Vegeta can fight and maybe defeat Beerus. Promotional material also suggests its a battle surpassing gods. The only 2 gods we seen were Beersu 70% & Goku SSJG.

Beerus 10
Freeza 8
Goku SSJG SS 7.5
Vegeta SSJG SS 7.2
Goku SSJG 6
Forgot about that bit. Bumped Beerus down to 1.6 million, adjusted everyone else appropriately.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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