Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Not really. Toriyama's script was very vague, and wasn't followed 100% in the actual film. Gohan clearly wasn't shown as being out of breath. We must also remember that even the mercenaries he hired are going to be extremely weak relative to base Gohan (unless you go by my list, of course... in that case it's actually plausible that some mercenaries around Nappa's level could land hits on and tire out base Gohan). Do remember that a power level of ~20,000 put you in the category of "top 20 strongest people in the universe" in the Freeza arc. Heck, the king and strongest warrior of the strongest warrior race had a battle power that was maybe half of that.

The damn script says they took the senzus and recovered and that was exactly what happened in the film.

It's a fact they got tired. I'm done debating this.

Candidly speaking, how is it even possible to specifically determine which of the thousand were mercenaries? Regardless, they must have been pretty darn powerful to give someone like Krillin, who I envision would easily be in the realm of 500,000 - 1,500,000 that much trouble.

Personally I never quite subscribed to the concept of falling victim to fatigue after fighting a band of useless mooks, but I'll just assume that refraining from incinerating the entire pile of trash with one-shot was what exacerbated energy consumption. Though real life examples are seldom applicable or even remotely comparable to scenarios such as this one, I guess it's a bit akin to how doing an hour or two of aerobics can be far more tiring than maxing out once or twice on a heavy lift.

Gather 170 cans and punch each one of them the fastest you can without stopping. Tell me if you did not get tired.

[Doctor.]

For 'fun', I tried to make a list that incorporates Freeza's 1.3M in F into it, but it just shatters down around the Cell Games. That part where MSS Goku at 50% surprises Trunks and Vegeta obligatorily makes base Goku at least double their power, and that puts him well over 2 million at the least. It was all going so nicely, as well.

[dbzfan7]

This is what I mean about making stuff up and ignoring that actual movie. There's absolutely no implication that Shisami did any training, and no implication that Freeza was off when he said that a power level of 1.3 million would let him surpass Majin Buu (presumably Fat Buu). Similarly, it's never implied that the big fish that killed scores of soldiers was anything other than just a big animal.

I think it's all bullshit when we take it all as the movie said. Everyone got tired and apparently needed a senzu from fodder. 1.3 million is now considered OP as that was Freeza's goal. Piccolo got super duper tired or slacked off against a weak guy (I say weak as when Freeza blew a hole in the hull, Shisami was one of the people affected by the gravity pulling the soldiers out, while Freeza was not). I go by what the movie tells me, not trying to bullshit my way into making it work with pre-established feats that none of the people on staff were trying to do.

[h0kuten]

I tried!!!

Check it!!!

Arrival of Trunks

Mecha Frieza
~Full Power 130,000,000
~Suppressed 65,000,000

King Cold
~Full Power 100,000,000

Trunks
~Full Power 140,000,000

Yardrat Goku
~Full Power 150,000,000

Arrival of The Android

Goku
~Full Power 150,000,000

Trunks
~Full Power 140,000,000

Vegeta
~Full Power 160,000,000

Kamiccolo
~Full Power 180,000,000

Android 18
~Full Power 175,000,000

Android 17
~Full Power 180,000,000

Android 16
~Full Power 185,000,000

His Name is Cell

Imperfect Cell
~Post 185,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell 200,000,000

Vegeta
~SSJG2 220,000,000

Trunks
~SSJG3 240,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Initial 210,000,000
~Powered Up 230,000,000

The Cell Games

Gohan
~Full Power 140,000,000
~Ssj2 280,000,000

Goku
~Full Power 150,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Full Power 240,000,000
~Super Perfect 275,000,000

Majin Buu Saga

Goku
~Ssj3 1,200,000,000

Fat Buu
~Full Power 400,000,000

Kid Buu
~Full Power 1,150,000,000

Gotenks
~Ssj3 1,100,000,000

Super Buu
~Full Power 1,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 1,200,000,000

Buutenks
~Full Power 2,100,000,000

Buuhan
~Full Power 3,200,000,000

Super Gogeta
~Full Power 2,500,000,000

Super Vegetto
~Ssj 5,000,000,000

Battle of Gods

Goku
~SSjG 6,000,000,000

Beerus
~Full Power 10,000,000,000

Whiss
~Full Power 15,000,000,000

Fukkatsu no F

Goku
~Base 1,200,000,000
~SSJG SS 7,500,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 1,152,000,000
~SSJG SS 7,200,000,000

Gohan (Gohan become 20x weaker over so and so years)
~Base 1,200,000
~Ssj 60,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 1,000,000 ????

Shisami
~Full Power 1,000,001????

Golden Frieza
~1rst Form 1,300,000
~Final Form 294,000,000
~Full Power 8,000,000,000

EOZ

Goku
~Base 1,200,000,000
~SSJG SS 7,500,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 1,152,000,000
~SSJG SS 7,200,000,000

Uub
~Calm 5
~Enraged 1,150,000,000


LOL

[RandomGuy96]

Not really. Toriyama's script was very vague, and wasn't followed 100% in the actual film. Gohan clearly wasn't shown as being out of breath. We must also remember that even the mercenaries he hired are going to be extremely weak relative to base Gohan (unless you go by my list, of course... in that case it's actually plausible that some mercenaries around Nappa's level could land hits on and tire out base Gohan). Do remember that a power level of ~20,000 put you in the category of "top 20 strongest people in the universe" in the Freeza arc. Heck, the king and strongest warrior of the strongest warrior race had a battle power that was maybe half of that.

The damn script says they took the senzus and recovered and that was exactly what happened in the film.

It's a fact they got tired. I'm done debating this.

Candidly speaking, how is it even possible to specifically determine which of the thousand were mercenaries? Regardless, they must have been pretty darn powerful to give someone like Krillin, who I envision would easily be in the realm of 500,000 - 1,500,000 that much trouble.

Personally I never quite subscribed to the concept of falling victim to fatigue after fighting a band of useless mooks, but I'll just assume that refraining from incinerating the entire pile of trash with one-shot was what exacerbated energy consumption. Though real life examples are seldom applicable or even remotely comparable to scenarios such as this one, I guess it's a bit akin to how doing an hour or two of aerobics can be far more tiring than maxing out once or twice on a heavy lift.

Gather 170 cans and punch each one of them the fastest you can without stopping. Tell me if you did not get tired.

No, the script says they took senzus because they were out of breath. In the actual film, they were not out of breath. So again, why should I believe the script when it differs from the film in that very scene?

[Truhan]

h0kuten, can I have a word with you? Why is it that you post hardcoded power levels instead of creating a relationship between them? It makes yours look more arbitrary and prove nothing really, specially when those increases in transformation have nothing to do with what has been officially written as the multipliers. Try doing a calculator based on formulas instead, for anyone to consider inputing their own values and receive lists of numbers as the output. That's what I'm doing, and I'm using round and even numbers whenever possible, and easy to read fractions as well, because what you want is to generate discussion with normal discourse (i.e. "two times his strength", "a quarter of his power", etc).

[h0kuten]

h0kuten, can I have a word with you? Why is it that you post hardcoded power levels instead of creating a relationship between them? It makes yours look more arbitrary and prove nothing really, specially when those increases in transformation have nothing to do with what has been officially written as the multipliers. Try doing a calculator based on formulas instead, for anyone to consider inputing their own values and receive lists of numbers as the output. That's what I'm doing, and I'm using round and even numbers whenever possible, and easy to read fractions as well, because what you want is to generate discussion with normal discourse (i.e. "two times his strength", "a quarter of his power", etc).

That's literally as accurate, or near accurate, as a list can get if we follow Frieza's 1,300,000 power level. We literally have to assume Goku didn't improve since the Frieza Saga and capped out in power.

It's literally impossible to make a legit list using that low level of power. Toei has no fricken idea what the hell they're talking about!!! Ahh man, Lol. This new movie is kind of giving me a head ache. I love it!! But all the inconsistencies are hard to wrap my mind around.

[Doctor.]

Here's my attempt then:

Spoiler:

Multipliers:
SS: 50x
Grade 2: 60x
Grade 3: 70x
MSS: 140x
SS2: MSS x2
SS3: SS2 x4
SSGSS: 3,5x
Golden Form: 10x

Namek arc:
Freeza:
-- First form: 530,000
-- Second form: 1,030,000
-- Third form: 1,060,000
-- Final Form: 1,110,000
---- 50%: 25,000,000
---- 100%: 50,000,000

Goku:
-- Base: 1,100,000
-- Kaioken x10: 11,000,000
-- Kaioken x20: 22,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 55,000,000

Vegeta: 1,080,000
Piccolo: 1,045,000

Arrival on Earth:
Goku:
-- Base: 1,100,000
-- Super Saiyan: 55,000,000

Trunks:
-- Base: 1,100,000
-- Super Saiyan: 55,000,000

Mecha Freeza:
-- Suppressed: 26,000,000
-- Full Power: 52,000,000

Cold: 27,000,000

3 years later:
Goku:
-- Base: 1,103,000
-- Super Saiyan: 55,150,000

Vegeta:
-- Base: 1,120,000
-- Super Saiyan: 56,000,000

Trunks:
-- Base: 1,110,000
-- Super Saiyan: 55,500,000

Piccolo: 40,000,000
-- post-fusion: 62,500,000

Artificial Human #19: 27,000,000
Artificial Human #20: 29,000,000

Artificial Human #17: 62,500,000
-- Future counterpart: 56,000,000
Artificial Human #18: 62,000,000
-- Future counterpart: 55,000,000
Artificial Human #16: 65,500,000

Imperfect Cell: 58,500,000
-- after absorbing humans: 65,500,000

Semi-Perfect Cell: 69,500,000

Vegeta:
-- Base: 1,220,000
-- Super Saiyan: 61,000,000
-- Grade 2: 73,200,000

Trunks:
-- Base: 1,210,000
-- Super Saiyan: 60,500,000
-- Grade 2: 72,600,000
-- Grade 3: 84,700,000

Perfect Cell: 80,000,000

Cell Games:
Goku:
-- Base: 1,230,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 172,200,000

Gohan:
-- Base: 1,250,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 175,000,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 350,000,000

Vegeta:
-- Base: 1,225,000
-- Super Saiyan: 61,250,000
-- Grade 2: 73,500,000

Trunks:
-- Base: 1,220,000
-- Super Saiyan: 61,000,000
-- Grade 2: 73,200,000

Piccolo: 73,000,000

Cell Jr: 73,000,000

Perfect Cell: 177,000,000
-- Super Perfect Cell: 348,000,000

Boo arc:
Goku:
-- Base: 1,260,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 176,400,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 352,800,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 1,411,200,000

Gohan:
-- Base: 1,240,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 173,600,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 347,200,000

Vegeta:
-- Base: 1,245,000
----- with Majin boost: 1,260,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 174,300,000
---- with Majin boost: 176,400,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 348,600,000
---- with Majin boost: 352,800,000

Trunks:
-- Base: 1,220,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 170,800,000

Goten:
-- Base: 1,215,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 170,100,000

Piccolo: 80,000,000
Kaioshin: 160,000,000
Dabra: 348,000,000

Fat Boo: 1,200,000,000
Grey Boo: 720,000,000
Mr. Boo: 480,000,000

Gotenks, post-training:
-- Base: 10,080,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 1,411,200,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 11,289,600,000

Ultimate Gohan: 14,000,000,000

Super Boo: 11,000,000,000
-- Gotenks absorbed: ~22,000,000,000
-- Gohan absorbed: ~~ 25,000,000,000

Vegetto:
-- Base: 250,000,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 35,000,000,000

Kid Boo: 1,420,000,000

Battle of Gods:
Goku:
-- Base: 1,260,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 176,400,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 352,800,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 1,411,200,000
-- Super Saiyan God: 350,000,000,000

Vegetto:
-- Base: 250,000,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 35,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 70,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 280,000,000,000

Beerus: 583,000,000,000
Whis: 875,000,000,000

Resurrection 'F':
Goku:
-- Base: 110,000,000,000
-- SSGSS: 385,000,000,000

Vegeta:
-- Base: 109,000,000,000
-- SSGSS: 381,500,000,000

Freeza:
-- First Form: 1,300,000
-- Final Form: 39,500,000,000
-- Golden: 395,000,000,000

Gohan:
-- Base: 1,240,000
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 173,600,000

Piccolo: 85,000,000
Shisami: 86,000,000

Kuririn: 470,000
Jaco: 450,000
Tenshinhan: 430,000
Roshi, powered-up: 300

Welp, that's my attempt. As you can see, I couldn't make sense of it, unless the base forms of the Saiyans didn't increase a lot and, instead, the multipliers for their SS forms increased exponentially. I don't expect this to be too good of a list, but at least I tried.

[h0kuten]

But Frieza is listed as 120,000,000 and Goku is listed at 150,000,00.

[Doctor.]

Not in the manga.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

We don't have implications that he is the weakest

Yes, we do. Kame-sennin isn't taking Jaco into account when he asks Piccolo if all of them can manage something against Freeza. Why would he ignore Jaco if he is the 3rd strongest of the group?

Toriyama also says that along with everyone "even Jaco" did well against Freeza, implying that Jaco being able to help is surprising. He also calls Jaco not been out of breath a surprising thing, which shouldn't be surprising if he really is as strong as you say.

but we do have feats to suggest he is the strongest.

Again, only if we assume that the enemies he fought were at the same level as the guys Kuririn fought.

[h0kuten]

We can't know what level of guys Kuririn fought or Jaco. There was a myriad of soldiers who simply charged at the Z-Fighters and attack them randomly.

[RandomGuy96]

The soldiers chasing Jaco were killed by a random animal.

[h0kuten]

The soldiers chasing Jaco were killed by a random animal.

Taken off guard and the animal was literally large enough to be physically superior too any of them.

[Doctor.]

Jaco can't handle adult Saiyans though.

[h0kuten]

Kuririn almost died in his fight and had to take a break for some wicked R&R; rest and recovery.

Jaco was never close to death, never had a break and never even needed a senzu bean.

Jaco > Tienshinhan > Kuririn > Roshi

[Doctor.]

... And Jaco can't handle adult Saiyans.

[RandomGuy96]

The soldiers chasing Jaco were killed by a random animal.

Taken off guard and the animal was literally large enough to be physically superior too any of them.

I think you're having a problem with scale here.

Tenshinhan > Kuririn

No.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

We can't know what level of guys Kuririn fought or Jaco. There was a myriad of soldiers who simply charged at the Z-Fighters and attack them randomly.

That's my point. We don't know that, so saying that Jaco is stronger than Kuririn as a fact is wrong, especially when there are implications that Jaco is the weakest of the group.

Kuririn almost died in his fight and had to take a break for some wicked R&R; rest and recovery.

About that... this is based on a fan-sub of a dub, right? I'll need the original line to confirm that Gohan saved Kuririn from dying.

Jaco was never close to death, never had a break and never even needed a senzu bean.

So, he is either the strongest, or his enemies were weaker & didn't put as much effort as the others. But we have implications for the later, so that's what I'll go by.

[h0kuten]

Feats of the finished material over-ride the script, which is subject to change, which has and will continue to happen to Mr. Akira Toriyama.