"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

There is no "may" about it. Learning "moving without thinking" doesn't mean you are stronger than someone.

Did I ever say that "moving without thinking" would make Goku stronger than Beerus? If Goku does becomes stronger than Beerus, it will be from his new form, which is why I said that Goku 'may' not have surpassed Beerus since we don't know a thing about Goku's new form or even how Kaioken x20 stacks up to Beerus. If Goku is only a little weaker than Beerus, but can used the whole "moving without thinking" better than Beerus, then chances are Goku could possibly beat Beerus in a fight. If you want to count that as 'surpassing Beerus', that is certainly possible.

Goku got to beat a mortal in Jiren first before you can even compare to Beerus.

[TheOne]

Goku may not have surpassed Beerus, but you're the one pushing that Goku isn't anywhere near Beerus based on very little evidence. And how do you know that Kaioken Blue Goku wouldn't have made much of a difference, especially since even a basic Kaioken double Goku's power. We also don't have a measure for 'a little'. Was it 30% of Sidra's power, 20%, 1%? We have no measurement.

And Goku was holding back too in his base form and he was laughing along with Beerus during the fight. So again, what are you're trying to prove?

That Beerus hasn't surpassed Goku. And your bold admits to such.

I obviously meant Goku may not have surpassed Beerus.

He struggled, but he still controlled it and that was Blue Goku without the Kaioken. And you mentioning the Monoka suit is weird since it happened awhile ago, Goku was fighting in his base form, and he wasn't serious either. Whis stopped the fight before the planet got nuked.

So, you're not proven your point here.

In Dragon Ball, it doesn't take much of a power different to be a stomp. Vegeta was only 1.3% higher than Cui and he utterly outmatched him. In other words, Goku could be as closed as 70% of Beerus' power using the Kaioken and Beerus would utterly smash Goku.

Again, fraction of Sidras power means nothing since what is the fraction here? Was it 30%, 20%, 1%, 0.0001%, we have nothing other than the vague 'a little'.

There is a bias even if you're not a fan since you're pushing Beerus' strength using vague statements. And the manga and the anime don't used the same scaling. Merged Zamasu in the anime was able to fight on par with Vegetto Blue, while Merged Zamasu in the manga got utterly stomped by Vegetto Blue. So why should I take a feat from manga Beerus and put it in the anime?

Goku passing Beerus in the manga and anime is such a significant milestone that there's no way it'd happen in one of the versions alone. In the manga, a much improved Vegeta, who is essentially on par with Goku, got wrecked by Beerus instantly. Despite all the improvements they made, Beerus told him he'd need a hundred years (I think) before he could go toe to toe with him. They gave us a measuring stick. While merge Zamasu was portrayed differently, it was clear that at the end of the day he was outmatched by Vegetto. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. Like with Sidra. You don't need an exact fraction to know exactly how much energy he put into it. The point was that he used very little energy. Just like Beerus used very little energy to blow it away.


This all boils down to Toei not being capable of portraying the proper gap in power to the audience. Even when the God of Destructions fought each other before the tournament started, it was underwhelming. The perfect opportunity to show us what it looks like when the most powerful beings fight and it wasn't that impressive. Just flashier techniques etc.

[HeroR]

Goku got to beat a mortal in Jiren first before you can even compare to Beerus.

And we don't know where Jiren stands next to Beerus.

Goku passing Beerus in the manga and anime is such a significant milestone that there's no way it'd happen in one of the versions alone. In the manga, a much improved Vegeta, who is essentially on par with Goku, got wrecked by Beerus instantly. Despite all the improvements they made, Beerus told him he'd need a hundred years (I think) before he could go toe to toe with him. They gave us a measuring stick. While merge Zamasu was portrayed differently, it was clear that at the end of the day he was outmatched by Vegetto. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. Like with Sidra. You don't need an exact fraction to know exactly how much energy he put into it. The point was that he used very little energy. Just like Beerus used very little energy to blow it away.


This all boils down to Toei not being capable of portraying the proper gap in power to the audience. Even when the God of Destructions fought each other before the tournament started, it was underwhelming. The perfect opportunity to show us what it looks like when the most powerful beings fight and it wasn't that impressive. Just flashier techniques etc.

It's a milestone, but the fact remains that the manga and anime don't used the same scaling and we have several examples of characters being stronger or weaker between the two medias. So the power gap that exists between Beerus and Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, may not be the power gap that exists between anime Beerus and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken. Especially since we don't even know where Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan stacks to any number of the Kaioken.

As for Merged Zamasu, Merged Zamasu in the anime took a Final Kamehameha from Vegetto without any trouble. Merged Zamasu in the manga nearly got torn to pieces by causal blasts from Vegetto Blue and only survived thanks to his immorality. We can also go as far back as Hit whose manga's counterpart got overwhelmed by Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, yet anime Hit improved and took blows from Kaioken x10 Blue Goku.

So again, you can't just used something that was in the manga and just apply it to the anime. Very little of his power doesn't mean much since again, it doesn't take much of a power different in Dragon Ball to get a stomp. The percent could be as low as 2% and you still end up on the floor.

This isn't reading between the lines. This is you seeing something in the manga and thinking the same holds true in the anime, which is a fallacy since the scaling is different between the two.

This isn't about "Toei not being capable of portraying the proper gap in power to the audience". This is Toei not using the same scaling as the manga and being coy about where Beerus stands since despite Merged Zamasu and Vegetto Blue's power, neither Kais compared their power to Beerus, while manga Supreme Kai said that Vegetto Blue surpassed Beerus. Even when directly asked, the director avoiding the question about who was stronger between Merged Zamasu and Vegetto Blue, and instead compared Black to Beerus. If they wanted to show Beerus stomping Goku, they can since they did it back in the Battle of Gods where Beerus smashed everyone and the beatdown of Super Saiyan God Goku was worst than the movie.

[Miracles]

And we don't know where Jiren stands next to Beerus.

Right where Vegeta was...Head in the dirt. Vegeta is a thousand years to early to try and fight Beerus.

[HeroR]

And we don't know where Jiren stands next to Beerus.

Right where Vegeta was...Head in the dirt. Vegeta is a thousand years to early to try and fight Beerus.

And your proof of this is what? Vegeta getting bodied by Beerus doesn't prove anything since we already know Jiren is much stronger than Vegeta.

[Miracles]

And we don't know where Jiren stands next to Beerus.

Right where Vegeta was...Head in the dirt. Vegeta is a thousand years to early to try and fight Beerus.

And your proof of this is what? Vegeta getting bodied by Beerus doesn't prove anything since we already know Jiren is much stronger than Vegeta.

Did you see Vegeta vs Jiren? Nope.
Beerus after pwning a Mastered Blue Vegeta who has "caught up to Goku": "It'll take a million years for you to become my Rival."
This same Beerus is making the other gods look silly at the same time. Goku surpass Beerus? Nope.

[HeroR]

Did you see Vegeta vs Jiren? Nope. Beerus after pwning a Mastered Blue Vegeta: "It'll take a million years for you to become my Rival." This same Beerus is making the other gods look silly AT THE SAME TIME. Goku surpass Beerus?

Unless Vegeta is majorly stronger than Goku or weaker, Goku and Vegeta are about equal and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku is no match for Jiren even with the Kaioken. I am going to assumed that Jiren in the manga is also stronger than Mastered Blue since this form was created by Toriyama and should also appear in the manga. So, unless the manga shows otherwise, Jiren is way stronger than Vegeta.

So you can't say with any certainty that Beerus would face plant Jiren like Vegeta.

[Miracles]

Did you see Vegeta vs Jiren? Nope. Beerus after pwning a Mastered Blue Vegeta: "It'll take a million years for you to become my Rival." This same Beerus is making the other gods look silly AT THE SAME TIME. Goku surpass Beerus?

Unless Vegeta is majorly stronger than Goku or weaker, Goku and Vegeta are about equal and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku is no match for Jiren even with the Kaioken. I am going to assumed that Jiren in the manga is also stronger than Mastered Blue since this form was created by Toriyama and should also appear in the manga. So, unless the manga shows otherwise, Jiren is way stronger than Vegeta.

So you can't say with any certainty that Beerus would face plant Jiren like Vegeta.

Yes we can, cause Beerus owned Vegeta very easily. And even stated that he was still nowhere near his level of strength even after the power up.
Beerus is also handling all the gods by himself, that is a feat that can't be replicated by Vegeta or Goku or Jiren.

[HeroR]

Yes we can, cause Beerus owned Vegeta very easily. And even stated that he was still nowhere near his level of strength even after the power up.
Beerus is also handling all the gods by himself, that is a feat that can't be replicated by Vegeta or Goku.

Vegeta on Namek also own Cui easily and the power different was only 1.3%. Beerus is also a known lair about his power, so his word should always be taken with a grain of salt. Even if we do take Beerus at his word, that still tells us nothing about Jiren since we only know that he's also stronger than Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta.

Beerus is doing well because he's able to move without thinking as Whis observed himself. It should also be noted that the fight between the Gods of Destruction in the manga isn't over yet. Calling it a 'feat that can't be replicated by Vegeta or Goku' is a bit overblown since Dragon Ball is all about surpassing what is the impossible.

[Miracles]

Vegeta on Namek also own Cui easily and the power different was only 1.3%. Beerus is also a known lair about his power, so his word should always be taken with a grain of salt.

Beerus is doing well because he's able to move without thinking as Whis observed himself. It should also be noted that the fight between the Gods of Destruction in the manga isn't over yet. Calling it a 'feat that can't be replicated by Vegeta or Goku' is a bit overblown since Dragon Ball is all about surpassing what is the impossible.

Until they surpass or even demonstrate to be in Beerus league it isn't overblown to say they can't do what Beerus is doing to the other gods. He could of killed some of them with one blast if it weren't for Sidra saving them. Especially since Beerus statement about Vegeta being" millions of years behind" and then demonstrating that statement to be fact with an easy face plant is proof they haven't surpassed Beerus.

[HeroR]

Until they surpass or even demonstrate to be in Beerus league it isn't overblown to say they can't do what Beerus is doing to the other gods. He could of killed some of them with one blast if it weren't for Sidra saving them. Especially since Beerus statement about Vegeta being" millions of years behind" and then demonstrating that statement to be fact with an easy face plant is proof they haven't surpassed Beerus.

It is overblown because you're saying in absolution that Goku and Vegeta can't replicate Beerus, which is amusing since Goku in the anime seems to be doing just that to an extent. And 'he could of killed some of them with one blast if it weren't for Sidra saving them' is pushing it. Not even the manga claimed that Beerus would have wiped out other Gods of Destruction.

He also didn't demonstrate his statement since just stomping someone doesn't make your statement true since Freeza said similar lines and we know what happened to him. The same was also said about Buu.

[Miracles]

Until they surpass or even demonstrate to be in Beerus league it isn't overblown to say they can't do what Beerus is doing to the other gods. He could of killed some of them with one blast if it weren't for Sidra saving them. Especially since Beerus statement about Vegeta being" millions of years behind" and then demonstrating that statement to be fact with an easy face plant is proof they haven't surpassed Beerus.

It is overblown because you're saying in absolution that Goku and Vegeta can't replicate Beerus, which is amusing since Goku in the anime seems to be doing just that to an extent. And 'he could of killed some of them with one blast if it weren't for Sidra saving them' is pushing it. Not even the manga claimed that Beerus would have wiped out other Gods of Destruction.

He also didn't demonstrate his statement since just stomping someone doesn't make your statement true since Freeza said similar lines and we know what happened to him. The same was also said about Buu.

The fact that Beerus easily pwned Vegeta proves his statement that Beerus is way out of Vegeta and Goku's league. That's called backing up statements.
Also...
Geene: "Sidra, you saved us all."
Goku: "Beerus isn't holding back. Are they all alive after that?"
Beerus attack would have done grave damage even Goku thought they would have died from Beerus attack.
Goku and Vegeta isn't replicating any of these feats cause like Beerus already demonstrated they aren't anywhere near him.

[HeroR]

The fact that Beerus easily pwned Vegeta proves his statement that Beerus is way out of Vegeta and Goku's league. That's called backing up statements.
Also...
Geene: "Sidra, you saved us all."
Goku: "Beerus isn't holding back. Are they all alive after that?"
Beerus attack would have done grave damage even Goku thought they would have died from Beerus attack.
Goku and Vegeta isn't replicating any of these feats cause like Beerus already demonstrated they aren't anywhere near him.

Yes, but by what degree since as I pointed out the different could be as low as 5 to 10% and Beerus stomps.

Save us, doesn't mean Beerus would have killed them. Kind of like how 17 'saved' Goku against the magical girl in Episode 103.

Currently, but we haven't seen the end of this arc.

[Miracles]

The fact that Beerus easily pwned Vegeta proves his statement that Beerus is way out of Vegeta and Goku's league. That's called backing up statements.
Also...
Geene: "Sidra, you saved us all."
Goku: "Beerus isn't holding back. Are they all alive after that?"
Beerus attack would have done grave damage even Goku thought they would have died from Beerus attack.
Goku and Vegeta isn't replicating any of these feats cause like Beerus already demonstrated they aren't anywhere near him.

Yes, but by what degree since as I pointed out the different could be as low as 5 to 10% and Beerus stomps.

Save us, doesn't mean Beerus would have killed them. Kind of like how 17 'saved' Goku against the magical girl in Episode 103.

Currently, but we haven't seen the end of this arc.

Then you shouldn't be saying they are replicating Beerus. Cause when you stomp in Dragonball, you are leagues above your opponent. Like Cell one shotted Kurrin, same with Beerus against Vegeta. Also Beerus firing a blast in an all out death match between gods and Geene saying thy were saved compared to just an ring out tournament is a bad comparison. Especially since Goku thought they were dead and even Whis only assumed they were alive. All these feats show Beerus > all.

[OLKv3]

I knew this would be a plot point with how much they focused on it in the last 2 manga chapters

[Simere]

I knew this would be a plot point with how much they focused on it in the last 2 manga chapters

Yes, that was some hamfisted foreshadowing.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Been busy lately. Hardly have time to post anymore. Excited for Saturday, only a couple days left.

Hopefully we see the androids again, we haven't seen them in a while.

No doubt everyone is gonna react to what's going on in some capacity.

[OLKv3]

Looks like the form is temporary after all.
And looks like Hit is gone

[Kishido]

1. Cabba is a natural born loser
2. Why again a title and episode for Kale? We already had 2 of them.
3. Who is this new strong warrior appearing? I surely hope they don't mean Kale again and the U4 bugs make their appearance... Or Super Saiyan 3 Caulifla?
4. No Namekians, no Piccolo, no androids and no Gohan
5. No Freeza

[Legion]

In the new spoilers Jiren is not mentioned again...mh...