"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Kinokima]

I am really loving that Vegeta and Goku are taking the U6 Saiyans under their wings (but don't neglect your own sons you two when you get back to Earth) but it would have been cool if Gohan could have gotten a student too. Actually I think Kale would have been perfect for Gohan (she's not much of a fighter until she gets angry).

Strategy wise helping the U6 Saiyans doesn't make sense but Goku helping others to get stronger has always been his thing.

Vegeta has also helped villains get stronger because of his pride and arrogance and he paid for it. Hopefully in this case since he is doing something for someone else he won't have to pay for it. lol

As for Cabba trying to attack Vegeta and then Vegeta saving him later. I don't see any a contradiction here. Vegeta would be proud that Cabba tried to face him in combat.

And I can see Vegeta feeling a sort of affinity to the U6 Saiyans. I just hope these relationships continue beyond this arc so I hope U6 isn't permanently erased. I need them to visit Planet Sadala.

Gohan is still a student himself and he cannot even take care of himself in the battlefield,he is in no position to teach anyone.
Not to mention Kale has anger issues,not like Gohan can help her in that department,he kinda grew out of his own anger issues.

Last time I checked Vegeta and Goku were still students themselves. Just because you become a teacher doesn't mean you have nothing left to learn.

And I don't really see that Kale has anger issues. It is just she gets angry when she can't help someone she cares about (in this case Caulifla). I think that is similar to Gohan. Though of course Gohan wasn't obsessed with one person.

[Kanassa]

We dont know he chose the order do we? I think its more likely he told them who the last competitors would be, any important specific eliminations probably including Hit, but I doubt he wrote most of the fodder out.

Could be wrong, just my own speculation as of now.

Why would Toriyama leave the elimination order to Toei and Toyo? He can just make a list on who goes first to last.

So Hit leaves the stage after having eliminated less people than Master Roshi and Krillin. Nice one.

I knew he was gonna job to Jiren, but I didn't think he'd go this soon.

Toyotaro will have to fix this one too. And I think Hit will be stronger than before.

PS: Oh, Freeza's next on Jiren's list. Brace yourselves.

That isn't what job means and Hit in the manga was weaker than anime Hit. And I loved the "Toyotaro will have to fix this one" before you even watch the episode.

Hit eliminated less people than the likes of Roshi, Krillin and has the same amount as Tienshinhan.

That's what Toyotaro has to fix.

Fix what? Hit doesn't have to eliminate more people

[HeroR]

Ofcourse they talk about it together, but they have a very tight schedule since it's a weekly series. They tell the synopnis of their episodes, but obviously not the details. It's just not possible with a weekly series.

And I used the Brianne scene as an example, there are many more. The tournament stage went from katchi katchin to being made out some kind of rock. Goku forgot who the female saiyans were in another episodes even though they were introduced to each other in the first ep of the ToP. Android 18 went from being in shock from Krillin's elimination after he saved her to being a dick towards him in the next episode and calling him names even though she was just as naive in the episode before etc.

I mean just look at SSJB. It's obvious the writers have a different opinion on how it works each their own. One sees it as perfect Ki control, the other as stamina draining, the other is in the middle etc.

The script for each episode is written months ahead of time, not weekly or even monthly. For example, one of the writer wrote an episode back in spring/summer and it's only airing now.

It is still katchi katchin. When they broke it in Episode 97 it looks exactly as it did in Episode 109. He didn't forget them since he clearly knew who they were when they tried t fight him. She was shocked and then she laid into Krillin for being eliminated, this isn't her just forgetting or changing her mind. And 18 has double standards, what else is new.

It was outright said in Episode 38 in Super that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan drains stamina, which is why Goku fought Hit in base form. In Episode 39, it was revealed that while Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan does drains stamina it also have great ki control and it was all written by the same writer. So there is no different opinion.

Why would Toriyama leave the elimination order to Toei and Toyo? He can just make a list on who goes first to last.



That isn't what job means and Hit in the manga was weaker than anime Hit. And I loved the "Toyotaro will have to fix this one" before you even watch the episode.

Hit eliminated less people than the likes of Roshi, Krillin and has the same amount as Tienshinhan.

That's what Toyotaro has to fix.

Fix what? Hit doesn't have to eliminate more people

Serious, this along with the 'Toyo will fixed everything I don't like'.

[Zamasu55]

So for you guys it's perfectly normal if U6's strongest fighter has less rings outs than Master Roshi.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

[Kanassa]

So for you guys it's perfectly normal if U6's strongest fighter has less rings outs than Master Roshi.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

Whether it's normal or not means jack shit. Why is it a bad thing?

[Zamasu55]

So for you guys it's perfectly normal if U6's strongest fighter has less rings outs than Master Roshi.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

Whether it's normal or not means jack shit. Why is it a bad thing?

Why is it not a bad thing?

[TheMikado]

So for you guys it's perfectly normal if U6's strongest fighter has less rings outs than Master Roshi.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

Whether it's normal or not means jack shit. Why is it a bad thing?

Why is it not a bad thing?

Narratively is shows a plot centric focus on the main characters. Basically these characters are the center of the universe and hold more importance and weight than any other characters.
This would be in opposition to showing a rich world which exists outside these characters, that this interesting group of characters just happen to be living in.

Given what we know of power levels and particularly Roshi, it's pretty awful that in all the other universes, with all their other characters who have substantially more power and hundreds if not thousands of years more experience and expertise in martial arts. (See Hit). That Roshi of all people would do so substantially well against the best 80 fighters of multiple universal tournament where you have God level characters running about.

To put it bluntly, in the anime universe the world revolves around this characters. The characters don't live in a rich and teeming universe independent of their existence.

[Kinokima]

Whether it's normal or not means jack shit. Why is it a bad thing?

Why is it not a bad thing?

Narratively is shows a plot centric focus on the main characters. Basically these characters are the center of the universe and hold more importance and weight than any other characters.
This would be in opposition to showing a rich world which exists outside these characters, that this interesting group of characters just happen to be living in.

Given what we know of power levels and particularly Roshi, it's pretty awful that in all the other universes, with all their other characters who have substantially more power and hundreds if not thousands of years more experience and expertise in martial arts. (See Hit). That Roshi of all people would do so substantially well against the best 80 fighters of multiple universal tournament where you have God level characters running about.

To put it bluntly, in the anime universe the world revolves around this characters. The characters don't live in a rich and teeming universe independent of their existence.

Not to mention Roshi used strategy and knocked out characters he could. That doesn't mean he is a stronger fighter. It means he is a smart fighter.


But yes it's not odd for the series to focus on the U7 fighters, even the weaker ones.

[CJStriker_CBR]

So U6 the next to be erased.

It sounds like you might agree with me regarding the Universe 6 Namekians.

Toriyama decide the elimination order, so if Hit is next, he's next.



The summaries usually don't lie about ring-outs like with Krillin. How it happened maybe but not that it happened. With Kale, it was only said that Jiren defeated with a single attack, but it never said she was out as another example. Also "never having lost in a one-on-one battle", are we forgetting that Goku floored him with a single Kamehameha in their rematch?

That was a draw and not a Goku win.

Hit got a floored by a single Kamehameha without Goku even using the Kaioken despite all the hits Hit landed on him. And to add to this, Hit was trying to kill Goku, while Goku clearly hung back since, again, he didn't used the Kaioken or a full powered Kamehameha that melted Merged Zamasu's face.

Pretty sure he's referring to how in episode 100 they had Cabba uncharacteristically march up to Vegeta and basically say "it's time to retire old man!" and now it seems like that never happened. The logical step of progression I think would've been for Cabba or Vegeta to challenge the other.

I honestly just chalk this up as this arc having no direction. Seriously half of it feels like they're making this stuff up as they go, like 1-3 weeks before the episode airs. Episode 100 was basically just crap that they thought looked cool.

Yep thanks for pointing out.

Just bad communication between the writers I think. Same with Ribrianne's sneaky attemp to attack Goku even though she was crying about it when Android 17 did the same. You can find these mistakes in almost every episode in the ToP so far.

For love of, that isn't how this works. The writers talk to each other and know what one another are doing along the director of the series who leads the script. I am not sure why Super fans keep thinking that all the writers work in a vacuum or something.

And Ribrianne is a hypocrite, that isn't hard to figure out.

Honeslty I can take the ideal of bad writting and communtiatinos with some of these plot points cause I have seen it WAY worst in Marvel Comics over the past few years, just events alone the writers of each tie-in book can't seem to get their stories straight. So I have also been seeing some more inconsitances with how characters are written in the ToP, espically with the power scaling, like when we have Super Saiyan Level fights then we go back to base form for no reason.

I can chalk the Ribrianne sneak attack as strange writing if some want to call it that yea, I am ok with that.

~~~~ But if one wants to still place it as part of the story to then, No Ribraianne is not a hypocrite for attacking behind, she was justified. U7 open that can of worms that said to them Attaching when you are open is perfectly ok and since so far U7 and U2 have been in battle so much and losing fighters to each other, it only figures they have harsh feels towards each other for now. So 17 said attacking while open is Ok and Smart, SO now U2 is justified to change their philosophy in this ToP, aka Turn-About is Far Play. 17 as a representative of U7 Reap what he sowed onto his team for that attack. If we want to get more technical in this, the attack by 17 was during a Transformation, not an attack, their is no set thing said about an attack either.

[HeroR]

Honeslty I can take the ideal of bad writting and communtiatinos with some of these plot points cause I have seen it WAY worst in Marvel Comics over the past few years, just events alone the writers of each tie-in book can't seem to get their stories straight. So I have also been seeing some more inconsitances with how characters are written in the ToP, espically with the power scaling, like when we have Super Saiyan Level fights then we go back to base form for no reason.

I can chalk the Ribrianne sneak attack as strange writing if some want to call it that yea, I am ok with that.

~~~~ But if one wants to still place it as part of the story to then, No Ribraianne is not a hypocrite for attacking behind, she was justified. U7 open that can of worms that said to them Attaching when you are open is perfectly ok and since so far U7 and U2 have been in battle so much and losing fighters to each other, it only figures they have harsh feels towards each other for now. So 17 said attacking while open is Ok and Smart, SO now U2 is justified to change their philosophy in this ToP, aka Turn-About is Far Play. 17 as a representative of U7 Reap what he sowed onto his team for that attack. If we want to get more technical in this, the attack by 17 was during a Transformation, not an attack, their is no set thing said about an attack either.

The Super Saiyan Level fights then we go back to base isn't an inconstancy since different fighters used different levels of fighters. For example, we don't know how much energy 17 was using against Ribrianne since he was messing around and Goku was doing the same and only used Blue to kick her after dodging and weaving in base.

Nope, she's a hypocrite. She got on 17 for interrupting her power-up, yet tried to do the same with Goku when he wasn't even fighter her. And U7 didn't open the can of worms since everyone got on 17 for his actions and allowed them to transformed without hinder.

[YonedgeHP]

So for you guys it's perfectly normal if U6's strongest fighter has less rings outs than Master Roshi.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

Jiren who is stronger than Hit has even less eliminations than him and Roshi (only one).

[TheMikado]

Why would Toriyama leave the elimination order to Toei and Toyo? He can just make a list on who goes first to last.



That isn't what job means and Hit in the manga was weaker than anime Hit. And I loved the "Toyotaro will have to fix this one" before you even watch the episode.

Hit eliminated less people than the likes of Roshi, Krillin and has the same amount as Tienshinhan.

That's what Toyotaro has to fix.

Fix what? Hit doesn't have to eliminate more people

Logically he should. Krillin, Tien, even Roshi do not have nearly the experience, expertise, or skills as Hit. Hit is a hundreds/thousands of years old universal and possibly multi-universal assassin with time warping abilities that let him go toe-to-toe with SSBxKKx10 Goku. At the very least he should have more KOs than Tien and Krillin. These guys have been fighting earth scrubs for the past few decades and only recently took it on an interplanetary level.

So for you guys it's perfectly normal if U6's strongest fighter has less rings outs than Master Roshi.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

Jiren who is stronger than Hit has even less eliminations.

They gave the conservation of power excuse, but there's no excuse for the likes of Toppo or the Pride Troops as a whole.

[YonedgeHP]

I completely forgot that Maji-Kayo was the first and only one eliminated by a Universe 11 team member so far.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Honeslty I can take the ideal of bad writting and communtiatinos with some of these plot points cause I have seen it WAY worst in Marvel Comics over the past few years, just events alone the writers of each tie-in book can't seem to get their stories straight. So I have also been seeing some more inconsitances with how characters are written in the ToP, espically with the power scaling, like when we have Super Saiyan Level fights then we go back to base form for no reason.

I can chalk the Ribrianne sneak attack as strange writing if some want to call it that yea, I am ok with that.

~~~~ But if one wants to still place it as part of the story to then, No Ribraianne is not a hypocrite for attacking behind, she was justified. U7 open that can of worms that said to them Attaching when you are open is perfectly ok and since so far U7 and U2 have been in battle so much and losing fighters to each other, it only figures they have harsh feels towards each other for now. So 17 said attacking while open is Ok and Smart, SO now U2 is justified to change their philosophy in this ToP, aka Turn-About is Far Play. 17 as a representative of U7 Reap what he sowed onto his team for that attack. If we want to get more technical in this, the attack by 17 was during a Transformation, not an attack, their is no set thing said about an attack either.

The Super Saiyan Level fights then we go back to base isn't an inconstancy since different fighters used different levels of fighters. For example, we don't know how much energy 17 was using against Ribrianne since he was messing around and Goku was doing the same and only used Blue to kick her after dodging and weaving in base.

Nope, she's a hypocrite. She got on 17 for interrupting her power-up, yet tried to do the same with Goku when he wasn't even fighter her. And U7 didn't open the can of worms since everyone got on 17 for his actions and allowed them to transformed without hinder.

Their was no chart that says 17 was just messing, some messy words, but not messing around fighting. He was even saying her fighting was impressive and they were going at it pretty hard. Also She Broke that Super Shield of His in 1 Punch, something no one else had done yet. Also she fought Vegeta at SSJ-1 and Tanked and Laugh during that whole fight, so She was clearly way above SSJ-1 during that fight and by how the 17 fight went with 17 and her, they where on a higher level.

The Base Goku Fight is the only one that did not make sense, most chalked that up to them just playing around with each other I guess or it is just Toei Loves Base Goku so Much, just look at his new form, Still Base Goku's hair.

Also the Goku v Ribrianne fight only got stop because Jiren was their, I am sure Ribrianne and Goku would have still been going at it if not for that. Also why that would be is because even with Blue-Goku's surprise Hit, it Still did not Damage or Tire Ribranne out! So for all that gone up against her; Goku Blue, Vegeta SSJ, 17 fighting hard, still have not danage/hurt her, tired her or even come close it seems to making her struggle Yet. Their is allot to be said about that.

And no she is not a Hypocrite for that, that is a war and your foes ring out your friends and show that such attacks are ok in this battle royal, U7 has to expect repercussions to their actions. Even thought the others said to let them transform, it would show bad development if they did not take the hint from 17 that this is how other universes play and you U2 have to play this game as well. Honestly too she would get hit over this if she did not take that chance either against Goku, said to be not learning from her mistakes with 17 and being naive and putting her universe at risk for a belief she already got hit over, so she evolved to the situation. It is call realizing the Realty of the situations and knowing the level your opponents will go to win. Like many said, this is about Survival, you learn what you have to do to win this and play a similar game your opponents play if their game is at a level that is outpacing your game.

[TheMikado]

Also in before someone comments about how Dragonball did it too... Doing something bad or worse because it was previously done does not excuse it now.

Plus the Worlds Martial Arts Tournament was nothing like this. Not every single one of the main cast was suddenly " a winner" or even highly competitive to this degree. Remember Yamcha usually jobs pretty hard in every tournament.

[Kanassa]

Hit eliminated less people than the likes of Roshi, Krillin and has the same amount as Tienshinhan.

That's what Toyotaro has to fix.

Fix what? Hit doesn't have to eliminate more people

Logically he should.

Not really. Yeah, he'd be more likely to get more eliminations, but no; he doesn't HAVE to have more eliminations. It's not a flaw with the story for him to not have a lot of eliminations.

[Noah]

The summary for 112 is out and has been translated by Herms.

The only thing I'm surprised is that finally someone big got eliminated in this tournament, too bad I expected to Hit vs. Vegeta rematch, but whatever.

t's not. Jiren is indeed a bad character, but from what has been shown from him so far. Shin defined perfectly: he is strong, that's all. No personality, no background, nothing yet for we too say he's more than just an obstacle that Goku must overcome in this arc.

He isn't a bad character and that's your opinion not facts but opinion

Struggle all you want it won't change the fact that Jiren is a bland character, not me saying, but what the series had shown so far.

[BlueBasilisk]

I am really loving that Vegeta and Goku are taking the U6 Saiyans under their wings (but don't neglect your own sons you two when you get back to Earth) but it would have been cool if Gohan could have gotten a student too. Actually I think Kale would have been perfect for Gohan (she's not much of a fighter until she gets angry).

Strategy wise helping the U6 Saiyans doesn't make sense but Goku helping others to get stronger has always been his thing.

Vegeta has also helped villains get stronger because of his pride and arrogance and he paid for it. Hopefully in this case since he is doing something for someone else he won't have to pay for it. lol

As for Cabba trying to attack Vegeta and then Vegeta saving him later. I don't see any a contradiction here. Vegeta would be proud that Cabba tried to face him in combat.

And I can see Vegeta feeling a sort of affinity to the U6 Saiyans. I just hope these relationships continue beyond this arc so I hope U6 isn't permanently erased. I need them to visit Planet Sadala.

Gohan is still a student himself and he cannot even take care of himself in the battlefield,he is in no position to teach anyone.
Not to mention Kale has anger issues,not like Gohan can help her in that department,he kinda grew out of his own anger issues.

Last time I checked Vegeta and Goku were still students themselves. Just because you become a teacher doesn't mean you have nothing left to learn.

And I don't really see that Kale has anger issues. It is just she gets angry when she can't help someone she cares about (in this case Caulifla). I think that is similar to Gohan. Though of course Gohan wasn't obsessed with one person.

With Kale it's not so much anger issues as it is intense jealousy over Caulifla and her own feelings of inadequacy which they seem to have ironed out in 101 with Caulifla acknowledging her as a friend and not just her protege.

Speaking of Kale, I noticed while re-checking the 114 preview that it just says that Kale is being overwhelmed after she steps in to help Caulifla but there's no mention of how she's doing. Kale is strong but not that experienced a fighter from what we've seen, at least not compared to a season vet like Goku. And it sounds like they're still in base or SS1 since Kale hasn't transformed yet. Could get ugly if Goku sticks his foot in it again and says the wrong thing like he did in 100.

[GodKaio-Ken]

We dont know he chose the order do we? I think its more likely he told them who the last competitors would be, any important specific eliminations probably including Hit, but I doubt he wrote most of the fodder out.

Could be wrong, just my own speculation as of now.

Why would Toriyama leave the elimination order to Toei and Toyo? He can just make a list on who goes first to last.

So Hit leaves the stage after having eliminated less people than Master Roshi and Krillin. Nice one.

I knew he was gonna job to Jiren, but I didn't think he'd go this soon.

Toyotaro will have to fix this one too. And I think Hit will be stronger than before.

PS: Oh, Freeza's next on Jiren's list. Brace yourselves.

That isn't what job means and Hit in the manga was weaker than anime Hit. And I loved the "Toyotaro will have to fix this one" before you even watch the episode.

I'm merely pointing out we dont know his level of involvement. Personally I think its barely anything beyond napkin notes with the overall plot points and highlights.

[TheOne]

Whether it's normal or not means jack shit. Why is it a bad thing?

Why is it not a bad thing?

Narratively is shows a plot centric focus on the main characters. Basically these characters are the center of the universe and hold more importance and weight than any other characters.
This would be in opposition to showing a rich world which exists outside these characters, that this interesting group of characters just happen to be living in.

Given what we know of power levels and particularly Roshi, it's pretty awful that in all the other universes, with all their other characters who have substantially more power and hundreds if not thousands of years more experience and expertise in martial arts. (See Hit). That Roshi of all people would do so substantially well against the best 80 fighters of multiple universal tournament where you have God level characters running about.

To put it bluntly, in the anime universe the world revolves around this characters. The characters don't live in a rich and teeming universe independent of their existence.

TheMikado explained it perfectly. There was such an emphasis on weak people like Roshi that the exceptionally powerful fighters like Hit (who could take out about 98% of the contestants) get shown in a poor lighting. If I just started watching dragon ball for the first time, I'd assume Roshi could hold his own against Hit.