"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

TheMikado explained it perfectly. There was such an emphasis on weak people like Roshi that the exceptionally powerful fighters like Hit (who could take out about 98% of the contestants) get shown in a poor lighting. If I just started watching dragon ball for the first time, I'd assume Roshi could hold his own against Hit.

That's some leap in logic since no one Roshi took out have been shown to be strong and Roshi himself admitted to being weaker than anyone on his team. How stupid do you think the audience is?

[TheMikado]

TheMikado explained it perfectly. There was such an emphasis on weak people like Roshi that the exceptionally powerful fighters like Hit (who could take out about 98% of the contestants) get shown in a poor lighting. If I just started watching dragon ball for the first time, I'd assume Roshi could hold his own against Hit.

That's some leap in logic since no one Roshi took out have been shown to be strong and Roshi himself admitted to being weaker than anyone on his team. How stupid do you think the audience is?

It wasn't the audience that fans were concerned about, it was the producers comments.

“The Turtle Sennin is strong,” Sakurada said. “Is [his strength] not like Kame or Krillin’s unique success?”

Continuing, the producer admitted that Roshi was not able to keep up with the power inflation of Dragon Ball. However, fans will still be able to enjoy Roshi’s fights as much as they will like seeing Gohan get back in fighting shape. Sakurada stressed it was Akira Toriyama’s idea to bring Roshi back in the fold, and the producer said the Tournament of Power will have various ‘activity centers’ on the battlefield which will suit some fighters more than others.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2017/04/27/d ... ter-roshi/

a lot of people took this as a fundamental misunderstanding Roshi's strengths and abilities. Everyone decided to wait until the tournament to see how it panned out. We even had people in this thread saying that Roshi would never be able to fight Frost or Hit or be comparable to them on a fighting level... Yet we had Roshi up against Frost one-on-one and not completely destroyed. It's fine but let's not act like fans didn't have these concerns and see this problem coming a mile away before the tournament even stared.

[TheMikado]

Fix what? Hit doesn't have to eliminate more people

Logically he should.

Not really. Yeah, he'd be more likely to get more eliminations, but no; he doesn't HAVE to have more eliminations. It's not a flaw with the story for him to not have a lot of eliminations.

I agree Hit not having more eliminations specifically isn't necessarily a flaw. But this isn't about Hit specifically. It's about one universe completely dominating the tournament and responsible for 90% of the eliminations despite having several weaker members. We get that these characters are "special" but in a multi-universe tournament in the strongest universes, the weaker parts of the team should be THAT special to out perform the biggest stars of the other universes. Right now, if we were ranking characters in this tournament by eliminations out of the top 10 fighters in the multiverse almost every single member would be in the top 15, depending on if you count joint eliminations.

Basically it logically doesn't make sense that even the weaker members are significantly out performing the strongest and best of the other universes without resorting to calling it plot armor. It takes you out of the universe in thinking that it is living and breathing and reminds you that the only important people are the central cast. It makes you wonder what this tournament would look like without them because they've racked up 90% of the eliminations so far.

[dbzfan7]

Oh yay, people still don't know how to use the term job.

In professional wrestling slang, a job is a losing performance in a wrestling match. It is derived from the euphemism "doing one's job", which was employed to protect kayfabe. The term can be used a number of ways. When a wrestler is booked to lose a match it is described as "a job". The act itself is described with the verb jobbing, while the act of booking (rather than being booked) to job is called jobbing out. To lose a match fairly (meaning without any kayfabe rules being broken) is to job cleanly. Wrestlers who routinely (or exclusively) lose matches are known as jobbers. A regular jobber skilled at enhancing the matches he loses, as opposed to a mediocre local rookie or part-timer, is called a carpenter. In the post-kayfabe era the term has taken on a negative connotation, leading to the use of the neutral term enhancement talent. Job/Doing a Job/Put Over: Terms used to describe losing a wrestling match. When someone is booked to lose a match they are said to being “doing the job” or “putting over” their opponent.

Jobbing doesn't mean someone is a loser. The act doing a job is just taking the loss. I never said Hit was a Jobber, as he's not. If I said Hit was a Jobber because he's losing just once, that'd be dumb. Cena jobbed to Brock back in SS14 where he was essentially in a squash match. That's pretty much what it appears Hit is gonna be in, a squash match. That doesn't mean he's bad or anything. A Jobber is a loser. Jobbing is just merely losing and that's it. They're two different things.

[GodKaio-Ken]

TheMikado explained it perfectly. There was such an emphasis on weak people like Roshi that the exceptionally powerful fighters like Hit (who could take out about 98% of the contestants) get shown in a poor lighting. If I just started watching dragon ball for the first time, I'd assume Roshi could hold his own against Hit.

That's some leap in logic since no one Roshi took out have been shown to be strong and Roshi himself admitted to being weaker than anyone on his team. How stupid do you think the audience is?

It wasn't the audience that fans were concerned about, it was the producers comments.

“The Turtle Sennin is strong,” Sakurada said. “Is [his strength] not like Kame or Krillin’s unique success?”

Continuing, the producer admitted that Roshi was not able to keep up with the power inflation of Dragon Ball. However, fans will still be able to enjoy Roshi’s fights as much as they will like seeing Gohan get back in fighting shape. Sakurada stressed it was Akira Toriyama’s idea to bring Roshi back in the fold, and the producer said the Tournament of Power will have various ‘activity centers’ on the battlefield which will suit some fighters more than others.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2017/04/27/d ... ter-roshi/

a lot of people took this as a fundamental misunderstanding Roshi's strengths and abilities. Everyone decided to wait until the tournament to see how it panned out. We even had people in this thread saying that Roshi would never be able to fight Frost or Hit or be comparable to them on a fighting level... Yet we had Roshi up against Frost one-on-one and not completely destroyed. It's fine but let's not act like fans didn't have these concerns and see this problem coming a mile away before the tournament even stared.

Frost was holding back so he wouldnt kill Roshi on accident, Roshi wasnt even close in strength. He only lasted because of the Mafuba.

[HeroR]

Frost was holding back so he wouldnt kill Roshi on accident, Roshi wasnt even close in strength. He only lasted because of the Mafuba.

Even funnier, Frost outright said how hard it was to hold back to keep from killing anyone, so the show took the time to explain to explain themselves for people who thought Roshi = Frost. Yet, apparently, people really think the Super audience is so stupid that they would still think Roshi could beat Frost even when the show outright says otherwise. I guess it's back to the whole Krillin = Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku thing.

[TheMikado]

Frost was holding back so he wouldnt kill Roshi on accident, Roshi wasnt even close in strength. He only lasted because of the Mafuba.

Even funnier, Frost outright said how hard it was to hold back to keep from killing anyone, so the show took the time to explain to explain themselves for people who thought Roshi = Frost. Yet, apparently, people really think the Super audience is so stupid that they would still think Roshi could beat Frost even when the outright says otherwise. I guess it's back to the whole Krillin = Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku thing.

Cell has KO'ed many people without killing them. I think that's what people would be expecting. Similar to how Cell backhanded Krillin or Hercule and just continued to on his way. That's the power gap people were expecting. In fact, that's a common troup in Dragonball where opponents can take out a fighter in a single hit without killing them. It happens all the time except for in this tournament for some reason. The explanation was the least they could do and I'm sure a lot of people were grateful for that much.

[perucho1990]

Ofcourse they talk about it together, but they have a very tight schedule since it's a weekly series. They tell the synopnis of their episodes, but obviously not the details. It's just not possible with a weekly series.

And I used the Brianne scene as an example, there are many more. The tournament stage went from katchi katchin to being made out some kind of rock. Goku forgot who the female saiyans were in another episodes even though they were introduced to each other in the first ep of the ToP. Android 18 went from being in shock from Krillin's elimination after he saved her to being a dick towards him in the next episode and calling him names even though she was just as naive in the episode before etc.

I mean just look at SSJB. It's obvious the writers have a different opinion on how it works each their own. One sees it as perfect Ki control, the other as stamina draining, the other is in the middle etc.

Actually that was a mistranslation on CR part, what Goku said was "What the hell you guys" instead of "Who are you guys".

The 18 stuff proves that Toshio deserves to be DBS head writer.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Frost was holding back so he wouldnt kill Roshi on accident, Roshi wasnt even close in strength. He only lasted because of the Mafuba.

Even funnier, Frost outright said how hard it was to hold back to keep from killing anyone, so the show took the time to explain to explain themselves for people who thought Roshi = Frost. Yet, apparently, people really think the Super audience is so stupid that they would still think Roshi could beat Frost even when the outright says otherwise. I guess it's back to the whole Krillin = Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku thing.

Cell has KO'ed many people without killing them. I think that's what people would be expecting. Similar to how Cell backhanded Krillin or Hercule and just continued to on his way. That's the power gap people were expecting. In fact, that's a common troup in Dragonball where opponents can take out a fighter in a single hit without killing them. It happens all the time except for in this tournament for some reason. The explanation was the least they could do and I'm sure a lot of people were grateful for that much.

That is a valid point but just wasnt the route they went I guess.

[HeroR]

Even funnier, Frost outright said how hard it was to hold back to keep from killing anyone, so the show took the time to explain to explain themselves for people who thought Roshi = Frost. Yet, apparently, people really think the Super audience is so stupid that they would still think Roshi could beat Frost even when the outright says otherwise. I guess it's back to the whole Krillin = Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku thing.

Cell has KO'ed many people without killing them. I think that's what people would be expecting. Similar to how Cell backhanded Krillin or Hercule and just continued to on his way. That's the power gap people were expecting. In fact, that's a common troup in Dragonball where opponents can take out a fighter in a single hit without killing them. It happens all the time except for in this tournament for some reason. The explanation was the least they could do and I'm sure a lot of people were grateful for that much.

That is a valid point but just wasnt the route they went I guess.

Except Cell taking out Satan was played for laughs and Cell damn near killed Krillin to the point that needed a Senzu. Kid Buu also smack Mr. Satan after he expelled Fat Buu and he didn't die. Does that mean Satan on par with Kid Buu?

[Bullza]

Kind of a shame that Hit is going out so soon, I thought he'd have lasted towards the end.

I suppose it being unpredictable is always a good thing though.

[Kinokima]

Ofcourse they talk about it together, but they have a very tight schedule since it's a weekly series. They tell the synopnis of their episodes, but obviously not the details. It's just not possible with a weekly series.

And I used the Brianne scene as an example, there are many more. The tournament stage went from katchi katchin to being made out some kind of rock. Goku forgot who the female saiyans were in another episodes even though they were introduced to each other in the first ep of the ToP. Android 18 went from being in shock from Krillin's elimination after he saved her to being a dick towards him in the next episode and calling him names even though she was just as naive in the episode before etc.

I mean just look at SSJB. It's obvious the writers have a different opinion on how it works each their own. One sees it as perfect Ki control, the other as stamina draining, the other is in the middle etc.

Actually that was a mistranslation on CR part, what Goku said was "What the hell you guys" instead of "Who are you guys".

The 18 stuff proves that Toshio deserves to be DBS head writer.

Toshio is my favorite writer but then it's probably because he posts on Twitter and I am familiar with him. I am less familiar with the other writers. When he writes I pay attention. And so far I've been really happy with his episodes.

[Lord Frieza]

I like Hit and I hope he puts on a good show.......I mean me and my star fighter Jiren would not want to get bored now would we.

[TheMikado]

Cell has KO'ed many people without killing them. I think that's what people would be expecting. Similar to how Cell backhanded Krillin or Hercule and just continued to on his way. That's the power gap people were expecting. In fact, that's a common troup in Dragonball where opponents can take out a fighter in a single hit without killing them. It happens all the time except for in this tournament for some reason. The explanation was the least they could do and I'm sure a lot of people were grateful for that much.

That is a valid point but just wasnt the route they went I guess.

Except Cell taking out Satan was played for laughs and Cell damn near killed Krillin to the point that needed a Senzu. Kid Buu also smack Mr. Satan after he expelled Fat Buu and he didn't die. Does that mean Satan on par with Kid Buu?

That's kinda disingenuous, Hercule is a gag character and I specifically referenced other serious fighters for that reason as to not have a bias.
Frost is one of the strongest/most accomplished fighters of his universe. He even has multiple forms to control his power. If he was that concerned he could have gone down a level or two.
Using Frost specifically is weird because we know he did use tiered levels base Goku so it's implying Roshi is somewhere between base and SSJ level Goku otherwise Frost wouldn't have used another form for the same specific reasons he used those forms on base Goku.

[perucho1990]

It wasn't the audience that fans were concerned about, it was the producers comments.

“The Turtle Sennin is strong,” Sakurada said. “Is [his strength] not like Kame or Krillin’s unique success?”

Continuing, the producer admitted that Roshi was not able to keep up with the power inflation of Dragon Ball. However, fans will still be able to enjoy Roshi’s fights as much as they will like seeing Gohan get back in fighting shape. Sakurada stressed it was Akira Toriyama’s idea to bring Roshi back in the fold, and the producer said the Tournament of Power will have various ‘activity centers’ on the battlefield which will suit some fighters more than others.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2017/04/27/d ... ter-roshi/

a lot of people took this as a fundamental misunderstanding Roshi's strengths and abilities. Everyone decided to wait until the tournament to see how it panned out. We even had people in this thread saying that Roshi would never be able to fight Frost or Hit or be comparable to them on a fighting level... Yet we had Roshi up against Frost one-on-one and not completely destroyed. It's fine but let's not act like fans didn't have these concerns and see this problem coming a mile away before the tournament even stared.

The comparison with Gohan is laughable because at least with Gohan we always knew of his big potential(last time mentioned was after FnF). He was indirectly saying that PLs mean nothing now which was why Roshi was brought back by Toriyama, he doesnt care for PLs.

Like telling PLs fans are a bunch of idiots now, sorry for sounding harsh.

[TheMikado]

It wasn't the audience that fans were concerned about, it was the producers comments.

“The Turtle Sennin is strong,” Sakurada said. “Is [his strength] not like Kame or Krillin’s unique success?”

Continuing, the producer admitted that Roshi was not able to keep up with the power inflation of Dragon Ball. However, fans will still be able to enjoy Roshi’s fights as much as they will like seeing Gohan get back in fighting shape. Sakurada stressed it was Akira Toriyama’s idea to bring Roshi back in the fold, and the producer said the Tournament of Power will have various ‘activity centers’ on the battlefield which will suit some fighters more than others.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2017/04/27/d ... ter-roshi/

a lot of people took this as a fundamental misunderstanding Roshi's strengths and abilities. Everyone decided to wait until the tournament to see how it panned out. We even had people in this thread saying that Roshi would never be able to fight Frost or Hit or be comparable to them on a fighting level... Yet we had Roshi up against Frost one-on-one and not completely destroyed. It's fine but let's not act like fans didn't have these concerns and see this problem coming a mile away before the tournament even stared.

The comparison with Gohan is laughable because at least with Gohan we always knew of his big potential(last time mentioned was after FnF). He was indirectly saying that PLs mean nothing now which was why Roshi was brought back by Toriyama, he doesnt care for PLs.

Like telling PLs fans are a bunch of idiots now, sorry for sounding harsh.

I know reading comprehension can be difficult sometimes but that's not what he said at all. In fact no where was it stated that Toriyama doesn't care about power levels. Specifically when techniques were specifically used to equalize Roshi. If Toriyama didn't care about power levels I would think he would have just had him knock Frost out. I the only people more "idiotic" that PL fans are those fans that seem to try to speak for Toriyama.

[perucho1990]

See Roshi performing better than Gotenks, Tien and Krillin.

And also there are still some fans that wanted Yamcha and Buu fight in the ToP.

Tien fans were the most disappointed because he got the worst recruitment episode and worst ToP episode.

[TheMikado]

See Roshi performing better than Gotenks, Tien and Krillin.

And also there are still some fans that wanted Yamcha and Buu fight in the ToP.

Tien fans were the most disappointed because he got the worst recruitment episode and worst ToP episode.

Wait, What? What does what fans want have anything at all to do with what Toriyama thinks?
Also Roshi performing better how? When have Roshi and Gotenks fought the exact same character to give us an accurate gauge of power.

Roshi is specific in the Tournament of Power because both Roshi and Goku fought Frost in the exact same form. If Toriyama didn't care about power levels why would he bother giving Frost different forms with different power levels in the first place? Your argument makes no sense.

[perucho1990]

Episode 107 was written by Toshio, someone that actually cares for the series in all aspects, thats why its one of the best episodes of the ToP.(Directing was good too).

Some Fans think that Roshi being showcased better than Tien and Krillin is fine but for some reason Caulifla learning SSJ2 in seconds makes no sense..

[TheMikado]

Episode 107 was written by Toshio, someone that actually cares for the series in all aspects, thats why its one of the best episodes of the ToP.(Directing was good too).

Some Fans think that Roshi being showcased better than Tien and Krillin is fine but for some reason Caulifla learning SSJ2 in seconds makes no sense..

Why do you keep telling me what fans think? Ok i'll ask again, what does any of that have to do with whether Toriyama thinks power levels don't matter anymore?